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Destructible Environment


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Poll: Add things that go BOOM? (143 member(s) have cast votes)

Should the devs add destroyable foilage, cars and ect.?

  1. YEAH who dont like watching things blow up? (129 votes [90.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.21%

  2. No, it would be bad for the environment and my computer. (9 votes [6.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.29%

  3. so many choices...... hmmmmm....hmm (5 votes [3.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.50%

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#21 Knightshadowsong

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:30 PM

YEEESSS!!!!!

#22 Beaching Betty

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

No. Why? FPS DROP

#23 Zephonarch II

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:40 PM

Destructible environments would be a nightmare for LRM-boats, putting emphasis for those mechs to stay in the back of your team's collective body. And besides, buildings in Battletech have for a long time been destructible and caused harmful damage to any nearby mechs. It feels like common sense.

Adding interactions to maps should improve the gameplay as well. Currently if they could make buildings in River City collapse the buildings should have say 4 random scenarios, where they will fall N,S,E, or W and they will reduced to piles of rumble that a light or medium mech could use as cover. But in the end, Boats, Heavies, and definitely Assaults would mind to stear clear of those areas as it's just a compromised area; they'll have no cover and now other mechs can advance through it now. And even the devs could program buildings so that if say:

4 buildings are nearby each other; standing together in a squar; N,S,E,W. If they all fall down towards the center. the pile of rubble could amount to one colossal ruin that could be used as cover or a clear/new passage of advancement.

.Good idea.

#24 Loganauer

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Buildings were destructible in the MWO announce trailer. With the Warhammer vs. Atlas.

#25 CocoaJin

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:35 PM

View PostStardancer01, on 09 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

How about a basic physics engine that would blow cars out of the way of your jet wash while jump jetting (not is if you’d notice, but it would look good on a high detail model mini vid cut screen).


Hmmph...you have to be careful about throwing in rudimentary physics because you'll get weird anamolies, non-intuitive behavior, etc, etc.

Last thing we need to see is a world that behaves like our mech's rag dolls.

#26 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:09 PM

could be fun to see, however due to software and Net-code restrictions/limitations,

on buildings and walls, would probably be limited to interactive visual textures,
when a laser hits a wall shows a visual streak(like on a mech) this would stay till match end,

on trees and Cars, would probably be limited to small explosion triggers on ground assets,
walk over/through tree/car, tree/car asset explodes, this would be a distance trigger not a dynamic hit-box,

#27 9erRed

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:18 AM

Greetings all,

Karl had mentioned issues about this and the game play designers were 'very' concerned that map pathing would be effected.

- They designed the maps to have specific routes and avenues that are part of its use, changing or causing blocking terrain alters this and could lead to only having single 'chock' point left for one side to advance through. Seriously changing the gameplay and original design of the map.
- Additionally the effect of 'collapsing' a structure with a Mech on it or under it is very difficult for the net code to handle.

Now if the items that could be made 'destructible' are not critical, fall in place, cause no additional issues but visual eye candy, I would be happy to see that. As well as walls and barricades that can be 'opened' to allow for new routes into areas.
(all originally designed for use but placing destructible obstacles in the path.)

- The simple items that need to be converted to 'rigid' objects first, before they can be made destructible are well under way. Trees, street lamp poles, signs all required code from Karl to be in place before the artists could make these items. He was working on the code 'in his spare time' but CW and desync work may have reduced his time quite a bit.

As we move closer to the new game mode attack/defend we will need this feature to be addressed, if it's not already being worked on. But all the older maps would need new art 'pass overs' and take quite a bit of time, if the new rigid body items are just called from the library is should be much easer. But could also effect LOS areas of some maps that depended on trees being a blocking item for LOS and now collision with weapons fire.
(probably why the 'Jungle' map is taking more time to build?)

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 23 September 2014 - 08:19 AM.


#28 Estonniel

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:01 AM

Destroyable world is a technique already up since the PlayStation 3 starting era. it be awesome to unload some laser fire on a pillar or a building or any object just to get it out of the way with a set amount of HP and shoot right thru it to get to some mech hiding trying to peek shoot or dodge LRM fire. keep raining or shooting his cover to have it deleted from the map to just hit him.

gets rid of cowards trying to peek shoot with gauss or lasers all day as well as to get right at this LRM boat hiding behind a hill thinking he's safe forever.

#29 9erRed

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:14 AM

Greetings all,

Yes the technology for this effect has been around for some time, and with physix modeled getting much better.

- But this is mostly seen on client based games, or programed on games that have a very limited area of play or effect. And sometimes scripted into the game as a required item to proceed.
- This is a server authority based game, so everything has to be checked with the server. All LOS to items and objects, positional data, ray traced items, almost everything.

As well as converting anything that needs to have two or more states, from a simple art image to a rigid body object that causes collision and changes the initially called library item to a damaged state.
- That's only the static items or objects, ie: trees, signs, pipes, small buildings. Any terrain morphing is a completely different operation, similar effects but requiring a change in large amounts of data, and may be beyond server style gameplay. (that's the simple explanation, but there are pages of reasons that effect nearly every aspect of the game design and play.)

Good news though is Karl was working on the code required for the artists to be able to convert some of the smaller items to rigid bodies. Allowing weapons fire and collision to alter there displayed state. The objects need to be designed, if not already done and waiting in the library for introduction, but it was being worked on.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 24 September 2014 - 10:15 AM.


#30 Arctcwolf

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 12:18 PM

damage to the ground or mountains wouldnt make sense.

damage to buildings, somewhat. depends what damage was done. artillery strike should reduce buildings to the ground, while lasers shouldnt do much except gouge lines into them.

I'd like to see explosive tanks, storage bins, ships, ect. even collapsing the docks on crimson would be cool after a set amount of damage was reached. watching the ship blow up and take out nearby mechs would also be fun. the tanks on the north side of the saddle also could explode, making players wary of the paths they choose to take. the excess smoke would obscure vision, providing cover and hampering targeting.

the rock bridges also could be taken out, causing fall damage to mechs, or limiting mobility of an enemy force.

#31 beartraps

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 06:08 AM

With any of the Cry-Engines,this is very complicated to program!!!Rather see other improvements,FIRST!!!

#32 NAZGUULL

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 08:40 AM

war gamming implemented a physics engine with free to play world of tanks, fallen trees don't obstruct movement and still retain camo bonus. most smaller structures were destroyable as well as fences/statues etc etc. at the time I was running on a 8yr old gaming rig, other than slower loading into game and a slight decrease in fps in brawling situations (running minimal graphic settings) performance wasn't that bad. I got a new rig last December, and running max settings on everything I saw no noticeable fps drops. its certainly doable.

#33 Ogunn

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 03:33 AM

View PostBashfulsalamander, on 08 May 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

Im not saying that Devs should make it so Building can be destroyed as well as bridges, or anything you could use as cover; even though that would be awesome. I just would like to see trees get toppled over and the small cars/ tankers blow up when I step on them. Also weapon scarring effects could look better on static meshes.


HELL EFFING YEAH!!! I do not know how hard this is. But it would be absolutely awesome if you could.... Incinerate trees, crunch cars when you step on them, destroy bridges, blow up fuel or ammo dumps!

#34 VixNix

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:36 AM

makes sense to be able to destroy environment...

on the other hand, let me use the armor on those vehicles and light posts on my mech, indestructible baby!

#35 eaglemaster42

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 01:21 PM

It would be cool but I feel like it would take a ton of work to develop and I might need to upgrade my graphics card at that point too

#36 9erRed

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:23 PM

Greetings all,

The largest 'bite' that destructible elements would be asking for is the additional net traffic, checking the LOS to objects and there current state. Holding there current damage state for the entire match as well as any change in position these objects may have made.

- Direct positional changes to a Mech that is on, in, or near any of these rigid body objects, is a nightmare for hit detection and damage state. And with server authority required for both it's going to take some relatively new and updated code to even test this. It's been mentioned by Karl that this 'large structure' demolition' will probably not be modeled, due to the possible changing state of any Mech that could be effected by an object collapse. And it directly altering the modeled routes and paths on all maps.

- Strictly visual changes in structures and objects from weapons fire, may be the first effects we start to see. Mostly eye candy, as the objects hit box and collision locations should not be changed.
(so no, you won't be shooting a hole through a building and using that new opening to engage the enemy.)
~ the level of detail required for the models for that type of effect is crazy, and they don't have the time or resources for every object to be built out in that level. As well as the code, hit box's, collision mesh, too much.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 30 September 2014 - 10:25 PM.


#37 VixNix

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:33 AM

View Posteaglemaster42, on 30 September 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

It would be cool but I feel like it would take a ton of work to develop and I might need to upgrade my graphics card at that point too


Bad co 2 had this, building takes x damage and then it collapses...

#38 UrsusMorologus

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:56 PM

I would like to see trees stomped over, right now we just shoot through them, ruins the immersion and allows for exploitative behavior that isnt worth getting into. Unfortunately this game is already way too CPU intensive, and I have to turn off almost everything to get it working on my older rig. So my vote is a maybe, if they can do it without killing performance, otherwise no.

#39 9erRed

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:55 PM

Greetings all,

Changing the 'small stuff' like trees, light poles, signs, cars may not be that difficult or require excess amounts of CPU computing.
- This depends on what is operating the physix of those changes, GPU's need to be told to handle this or have the CPU hand off the process. All requiring the base code to be present first for this to be 'enabled'.
- The current graphics in-game are very CPU dependent, this needs to change.
- The GPU's on most players computers are running near idle for most of the game or at least not being used to any potential. Although there are some bad performance issues in the UI and at game start as some GPU's and cards will nearly maxing out on heat for a few seconds. This is bad coding or calls and not what we should be seeing for some of the latest top end vid cards. (but that's another issue for another time)

I've heard from some of the Dev.'s that the lack of any physics for these small items or objects is a concern, leading to loss of emersion with items just 'phasing' through the Mech's as they move through the environment. The do want to see these object's become 'destructible', it's not an issue of the artists producing the required changes, or effecting any gameplay, it's the required base code that needs to be completed and implemented first.
- Hopefully this will be addressed as soon as CW Ph2 is completed.

9erRed

#40 VixNix

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 03:25 AM

well, maybe they will include in new maps...
And i hope they do more new maps





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