52 replies to this topic

[Just wanna play]

So it weighs .5 tons and negates almost all of the damage of a 2 ton weapon, but what is it? This is just a "guide" on the almighty mighty midget with a machine on your shoulder, AMS
(YOU CAN SKIP TO THE 2ND POST FOR A SHORT SUMMARY)

First an introduction:
Introduced in 2617 by the Terran Hegemony, the anti-missile system is used to destroy missiles before they strike their target. This is accomplished by using a short ranged rapid firing weapon which shoots at the missiles. Because missiles in BattleTech are usually fired in salvos of up to forty at a time, anti-missile systems are rarely capable of destroying them all. Due to the loss of knowledge caused by the Succession Wars, anti-missile systems ceased to be produced by 2796. Only in 3040 did the Federated Commonwealth rediscover the means to produce this equipment. For the Clans, however, AMS never became LosTech, and by the time of the invasion had improved on the Star League version by replacing the solid slugs with flechettes, allowing for more ammunition per ton.^[1]
Laser versions of the anti-missile system exist, and benefit from having no ammunition requirement unlike regular systems. However they produce heat as a side effect of their use.

First off, So is AMS worth mounting on your mech? YOU DECIDE!
First some stats on here (due keep in mind these stats are with stationary mech and the missile is being fired from at or out side of ams range ):
Size of AMS sytem, weighs half a ton and takes up one slot
On average will take down 4 LR missiles per SINGLE salvo (so 4 destroyed one damaged), so 2 missiles down for one ams, 8 down for 2 ams, 12 down for 3 ams, and so on, if a mech is firing a stream type salvo, as in when not enough tubes for full salvo, the number of missiles does NOT double, triple, etc, as the the missiles are close enough together to arrive shortly after the first part of the salvo.... so you will usually shoot down 4 more missiles max if it is a REALLY long slavo, or far more if its a mech that simply doesnt have more then, say 2 tube, clan mechs actually falll under this category, they don't even really fire multiple launchers at once, same goes for srms, an srm4 out of a 2 tube at most will be 2 missiles downed if you have 2 ams and use certain tricks (talked about below)

Can destroy 1-2 streak missiles per ams, so 1 ams is one streak, 2 ams is two sreaks, 3 ams is 4 streaks, etc. But you MUST let ams shoot at streaks from its max range, if you are face hugging streaker ams is useless, be at least 120meters from streaker
1 ams will destroy 1 srm, to be exact, two ams will destroy roughly 2 missiles, 3 destroys 2. 4 destroys 3, etc.

For narc, will take about 2 ams to down a narc, as one ams only manages to take down about half of its health (2 hit points and FAST)

Ammo is 1000 rounds, or enough to shoot down 111 missiles and damage 1, per ton, and 1 crit slot for those 1000 rounds, clan echs get 2000 rounds, this is the only difference do note
This ammo will explode for 24 if a full one ton of it is present and it is set off (48 if you are clan)

So, you have decided you want the machine gun midget have you?
Time to get acquainted!

First off the ams will shoot at any and all enemy missiles that go with in 120 meters of you in any direction until out of ammo or destroyed. This includes missile on other side of walls and other obstruction. IT MAY damage missiles through obstacles (including self, as it often shoots through the owner) Notice the position of ams as on some mechs, such as the fire starter, you can see the muzzle flash when in your cockpit view, and some people may not like this. It will shoot at missiles going for friendlies as well, but it will always prioritize the closest missile coming for you (via lock).

Now then, now that you know what it is, here are some tips on using it:

If you do not mind losing some ground, backing up away from missiles coming at you increases time ams has to shoot at them, although this isn't always the best thing to do in assaults and such,
so if you are facing a guy with srms, keep him further then 120 meters and just keeping backing up to let the ams pop those srms, not all will be stopped but some will be AND the srms will spread out more
This has an opposite side as well, moving forward will reduce effectiveness of ams, depending on speed of mech, an assault probably will not be missing out on anything, but something fast enough may take more missiles to the face

If you are not the guy being missiled, if you can get about 90 meters in front of the guy being missiles, do it, and if you are the one being missiles try getting back enough so team mates are 90 meters in front of you this will let a single ams take out as many as 4 missiles as the 2.3 estimate per salvo is if YOU are the one being missiled, being 100 meters in front of the actual target lets the ams shoot at the missiles as they are coming at you, pass, and then are flying away
even better is if team mates are on hill (or has jump jets...) and you are below them, then have them stand a full 120 meters away from you, this is doable on caustic, if a team mate is being missiled try and hump the hull and have them down at base of hill so your ams can put in some real work

If you are a light and your team is simply being demolished with lrms and you are really bored...RUN with the missiles! if you are fast enough you can just run with the missiles and shoot down a sizable amount as the fastest dual ams mech can go 169km/h, which is 47 meters a second, essentially making the lrms go from 160 meters a second to 113, a 31% reduction! just start running when they are about 140 meters away....so they will be moving 130 meters a second and have to travel 240 meters to leave your ams field, taking 2.2 seconds, when normally the ams only gets a quarter second to shoot (ie. standing still) So 1 ams can knock down almost 12 missiles! A kit fox with 3 ams and speed tweak can't even match a locust going full speed with tweak and dual ams if the fox it self goes full speed (22 lrms shot down vs 24)

Modules: Im sure many of you are wondering, are modules worth it? Well lets see here, ams is shooting down 4 missiles in a quarter second, and the two boosts are 10% higher dps and 7% more range sooo with range it will be 4.28 and hile over load is 4.4, and because tey boost different things they can become combined to make it in total 4.7 damage to lrms in the time they pass by (.75 second) so with dual ams thats 1 more lrm then usual with anothe rlossing about half health, and with 3 ams thats another that wouldnt normally be destroyed, and so on
Please keep in mind that the amount of missiles that an ams can destroy is highly based on its amount of amo, these boosts in some cases will just cause your ams to runout faster and in total not help out any more then it would normally.

Disclaimer:
This stuff was collected in battle with the assumption 9 ams rounds = 1 point of damage, PLEASE tell me if this is wrong, although the results have had using this formula line up with real world results. But there is room for error when trying to figure how many lrms was shot down from a salvo when EVERYYTHING is launching a salvo at you




I got bored and was running the Lorm Chaser okay! DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ee3bcfbf00a064



As you can guess, I do not get laid often....................

Edited by Just wanna play, 12 September 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Just wanna play]

Short Summary:

you can run with missiles to get more time to shoot them down, being about 100 meters in front of who they are going to can help increase their effectiveness. two can destroy a narc, 1 ams will destroy about 4 lrms and more if they are a big clanner stream (which i like to call indirect fire lasers). 1 ams CAN destroy 1 srm. Longer salvos, such as when you do not have enough tubes, does not mean double or triple the amount of missiles shot down, the missiles aren't far apart enough for that to happen. 1 ams Will destroy 1 streak So basically when deciding if you should bring it Ams weighs .5 tons and destroys 4 missiles while an lrm 5 weighs TWO tons and fires 5 missiles so ams is relatively efficient use of tonnage as the damage reduction is better then the out put of what it counters for the same weight. More then anything ams modules are a good way to get spare rounds of ams that tend to be left over in a match used, but if you already run out normally your ammo amount is the limiter, not the system

Edited by Just wanna play, 26 June 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[kosmos1214]

nice thanks for the info/guide

Edited by kosmos1214, 26 May 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Just wanna play]

Also forgot to mention, ams is pretty common now, so expect your ams to be working with other ams, although it may get to a point where more ams would be over kill

[Just wanna play]

Just a little observation from an earlier match, it would appear ams is far more effective against turret lrms then against regular battle mech, with dual ams only 2 out 10 lrms where getting to me in a dual ams fire starter s on HPG manifold. It is interesting to note turrets are also where you find the classic twirling lrm flight path. I have a slight hunch that the speed boost to lrms was never applied to the turret Lrms as that would explain why so many get downed before reaching you (when they boosted lrm speed ams had its own boot as well to help it keep up), unless for some odd reason they just have about half the health of regular lrms, but they do appear slower

[CaptainDeez]

Just wanna play, on 26 May 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Short Summary:

Ams will shoot at missiles it can not hit through obstacles, which will waste ammo, you can run with missiles to get more time to shoot them down, being about 100 meters in front of who they are going to can help increase their effectiveness. two can destroy a narc, 1 ams will destroy about 2 lrms and take out 3/10ths of the health of a third one. 1 ams CAN destroy 1 srm. The range module ins't really useful with one ams, but with two you can shot down 1 more lrm. Longer salvos, such as when you do not have enough tubes, does not mean double or triple the amount of missiles shot down, the missiles aren't far apart enough for that to happen. 1 ams Will destroy 1 streak and do about .4 damage to it Ams weighs .5 tons and destroys 2-3 missiles while an lrm 5 weighs TWO tons and fires 5 missiles so ams is relatively efficient use of tonnage as the damage reduction is better then the out put of what it counters for the same weight

Shorter summary: This is exactly why AMS doesn't seem to matter when you have a Stk-3H that can fire 50 missiles as one single block.

[Just wanna play]

as this has already pointed out, firing in a single block is not a very big advantage, as the MASSIVE issues with doing it far out weigh why to do it, aka hit detection just ignores some missiles, damage is spread out, etc

A single locust with dual ams can run in and shoot down 14 missiles of yours, if a single light mech can do that, you so sure AMS doesnt matter? a lance of 20 ton mechs can then make you worthless, and combined they still weigh less then you The goal of ams is not to destroy the entire salvo, but reduce the damage of the salvo, and its doing that no matter how big the salvo is, so it does matter

fire at, say, an atlas k with 2 ams, he has a buddy with 1 ams and is in the proper possition, you just lost 9 out of 50 missiles, losing the damage of almost an lrm 10 to a weapon system weighing 1.5 tons combined? it matters

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Just wanna play]

I think hes just mad a Heavy actually made for lrms can do 50 salvos better (ya knoooow, fires faster, better torso twist, cheaper, all arm mounted launchers, can jump jet etc..) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ca9589aec37c1f

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[CaptainDeez]

Just wanna play, on 30 May 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

as this has already pointed out, firing in a single block is not a very big advantage, as the MASSIVE issues with doing it far out weigh why to do it, aka hit detection just ignores some missiles, damage is spread out, etc

A single locust with dual ams can run in and shoot down 14 missiles of yours, if a single light mech can do that, you so sure AMS doesnt matter? a lance of 20 ton mechs can then make you worthless, and combined they still weigh less then you The goal of ams is not to destroy the entire salvo, but reduce the damage of the salvo, and its doing that no matter how big the salvo is, so it does matter

fire at, say, an atlas k with 2 ams, he has a buddy with 1 ams and is in the proper possition, you just lost 9 out of 50 missiles, losing the damage of almost an lrm 10 to a weapon system weighing 1.5 tons combined? it matters

Going to have to disagree with you their buddy based on experience. The difference between 33 and 40 on a light mech is pretty small considering their hp. Maybe if you gather up with all your ams buddies in a tiny area you'll have an impact, but now I'm dictating your movements ;-).

I can often lock an entire team down with lrm40 salvos, that in lures the guys with ams. If you're out in the open you're not going to last more than a few salvos. And like I said I've dueled down most any other Lrm boat in a pitched battle.(that includes any other stalker variant) And I've dodged countless thousands of dribbled missile chains that only hit me with the first 2-3 missiles. Teams don't group up and come for missile dribblers, they come for me. And if I have a team that can hold locks, you're not going anywhere.

Can't speak on your hit scan conversation. But you have to realize this game is being constantly patched, it may be certain but scan issues aren't as prominent as they once were.

Edited by CaptainDeez, 30 May 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Just wanna play]

the lights protecting their buddies, not being the targets,, and if ya think gathering everyone together stationary is best way to ams, learn to ams bro and lets be honest here, part of that^^ is true because some (most........) pugs are just WIMPS, when your high lander is afraid of a shadow hawk....you might just need to go out of bounds and commit sepuku and go into a new match..... and iv dodged countless single salvos by simply jump jetting as high as i could, then shutting down, cant lock onto a shut down mech so they go to where i was last at, but i have fallen to the ground by then so they miss (it really is stupid you cant tag/narc a shut down mech........)

It maybe be getting constantly patched, but as of Right now (for a while now...) lrms...and srms.... have issues with salvo size (well srms just do not hit, cherry red internal cicada shuts down in front of buddy, he strikes it twice with 2 srm 6s, then cicada runs away -.-)

and 40 can kill a light, 33 might not (although a dual guass can kill a locust with an xl in one shot.........)

just remember, if it comes stock on a heavy (2 lrm 20s) it might be a little light for an assault that's artillery, i ran 5 lrm 20s on my stalker when i go bored

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Just wanna play]

if you wanna see something real players are afraid of:

[CaptainDeez]

You're forgetting that if you dribble fire your lrm40, your salvo is in the AMs bubble for a lot longer. Where 33 of my missiles may survive, many more are going to be shot down if they are in a line. Take into consideration that much of your missile line may miss if the lock is broken and you're not going to be hitting as often as you may think you are. The quality of the pugs depends on the elo.

Still not buying the hitscan problems because I watch my salvos make kills and destroy components with regularity. I can't argue against exploding mechs or the satisfying component destroyed messages after 2-3 salvos

Also an lrm100 is insane. You'd have enough ammo to make through the first 2 minutes. If you lost a few locks you'd lose most of your ammo. An lrm40 may seem light but like I said, more missiles hit and you can carry enough ammo to make into late game while still providing cover fire and having some decent mobility.(std 300)

[Just wanna play]

as i already pointed out, by the time the first salvo hits, the rest of it is already far into the bubble, so at most you only loose 1 missile, and you dont play in a lance do you? loosing locks is a much bigger problem with randoms then with a team, i used big groups more often when puggging, lrming is soooo different with a team to work with, if you haven't played with a scout light in a group yet and with voice chat, you must before you die, granted i usually have both a button to fire all 60 missiles at once, then a button lay out to fire 30 then 30

and just because you do damage doesn't mean you are doing the damage you should be doing, i remember making a 3 lrm 15 awesome and tried group firing at first but the missiles wouldn't do anything, then i chain fire and they did what they should

and the lrm100 stalker had 2100 rounds actually, just went 19kph, and no reverse.... ROFL-walker FTW

and ignore them chain firing in that video, they did not have double heat sinks at the time, they had no choice

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[CaptainDeez]

The AMs ingame doesn't shoot down missile with projectiles. It's just a sphere that destroys x amount of missiles per second. The tracers are just effects. So if your salvo takes 3x longer to impact you lose 3x the missiles. Which is why you should try to get the salvo through as quickly as possible(missile block).

But yeah I am considering clan play if not to just save on frustration in general.

You're just pulling my leg about the lrm100. :/

[Just wanna play]

But they do not take 3 times as long to impact, the end of the stream is only half a second behind the beginning of the salvo, they would have to be 120 meters apart from each other for 3 slavos to equal 3 times the missiles shot down

and im really not, it was slow and lightly armored, so it could carry lots of launchers and ammo, you could have max armor, but THEN you would only have enough ammo fr the 1st two minutes

Here i am with koniving (he is one filming) in it (the orion vid i am in the 2nd part of it)


Skip to the 6 minute mark in this one


It had a std 100 engine ROFL

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[CaptainDeez]

Wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it. Guess that would work handily with a dedicated team. A chronic pugger like me would get eaten in minutes lol. I still swear by my block o' missiles though.

[Just wanna play]

Yeah i guass (ha ha mwo humor, i made a funny ) i cant deny, if anything big blocks are just plain fun, i haven't tried anything supper big in a while
(was gonna do awesome 8r with its 60 missile tubes but mehh)because of the many times mechs with cherry red internals shrugged off my 45 missile salvo Lol and it wasn't really a dedicated team, just me kon and liquid leopard, everyone else was pugers

You probably wouldn't like the ROFLWalker, but what about the ROFLpault? Biggest missile salvo in the game (even though recently reduced by 10) it used to be just 6 lrm 15s but then they changed the cats tubes, to bad the C4 can no longer do 4 lrm 20s in one burst, that would allow two 40 missiles salvos back to back no ghost heat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fa81764afe90c59


Just remember though everyone,AMS weighs .5 tons and shoots down 2.5 missiles, so that would be half of an lrm 5, which weighs 2 tons, efficient indeed, it may not desstroy the entire salvo but its still an efficient way to reduce enemy damage. And lrm 5 is the lightest launcher per lrm launched

Edited by Just wanna play, 31 May 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[juxstapo]

long ago made AMS mandatory on all my builds except the ones that absolutely could not do what I wanted them to without that ton and a half. The dual AMS lights have been a treat, honestly.

That said, I enjoyed the read, affirmed my seat-of-the-pants judgement about the equipment.

[Just wanna play]

Right now is interesting to me, lrms are not op but they are pretty common as well so ams is a reliable choice for efficient tonnage use Lol yeah dual lights are interesting, i occasionally get bored and just run dual ams locust with 3 tons of ams ammo and just shoot down missiles all day, or use dual ams fire starter and use its jjs to get into a good positions and just....well exist really and help my team out. I just run with the lrms (cant actually keep up with lrms but you can give them a harder time getting out of ams range) and shoot a bunch down...its almost like a sport. I am annoyed there still is not a dual ams medium though, it seems like that and assaults would be the best class for that (at least with a medium that supports an assault all the time) guess dual ams hunchback is still just a dream..... And then there is the poor out of balanced atlas k, looses a missile and gun hard point in comparison to the D just for an ams hard point, not really worth it, and yet the dual ams locust just gave up an energy hard point *Sniffle*


Now imagine if you could mount any weapon ya wanted to the ams system....lbx-10 AMS FTW (or hyper assault gun AMS o.0) PGI if you are listening and want ideas for ams variants perhaps try ones with different fields of coverage, and aggressive/selfish one that is something like dual machineguns instead of one but only covers 45 degrees to the left and right of what the owner is facing but is better then the standard, then maybe an extreme one with a vary small "traverse" that you basically aim in the general direction of missiles your self with your torso, it just controls elevation and shoots automatically but is very powerful, maybe even like a 1 damage a shot auto cannon (missiles have one hit point) with around .35 reload and 200m range....idk

Edited by Just wanna play, 01 June 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Just wanna play]

I should make a poll to see how many people think 4 total ams would be fair on the atlas k, a ballistic and missile hard point traded for 3 ams hard points is fair right? 4 ams would mean with a bit of luck 10 lrms shot down if you are the target and just about standing still, I actually kind of feel the D and RS should have dual ams as well... ddc staying 1 ams of course