147 replies to this topic

[Remarius]

xeromynd, on 09 July 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Something I'm not seeing in the pricing breakdown: CASE.

Every clan mech component that mounts ammo technically has CASE too. If you're including XL Engines in the cost, why not case also?

If no one replied before me:

Its in the Omnipod cost technically as its the omnipod thats cased and you pay up to almost 0.5m in a direwolf.

Chemie, on 09 July 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

the point is not what you think it should cost using a "standard price list". The issue is what is a fair grind time --> earning per hour vs mech purchase price. Fair or not this is the real question...not a shopping list to "justify" the cost. You could charge 100MM if the earnings said it took 1-2 weeks of 10 hours per week to buy. Instead, 3 direwolfs will take more like 4-6 months.

Only if you don't use premium and barely play....

[Ren Kurogane]

with the trend of swappable engines on IS mechs and fixed engines on Clan mechs, which is also one of the reason why some people said that Clan mechs are overpriced in term of C-Bills, i wonder what will happen if PGI re-introduce R&R?

"swapping engine between mechs in same weight class needs (x) hours and (x) C-Bills, for different weight class needs (y) hours and (y) C-Bills"

all hell will break loose

[CyclonerM]

Discarius, on 11 July 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

with the trend of swappable engines on IS mechs and fixed engines on Clan mechs, which is also one of the reason why some people said that Clan mechs are overpriced in term of C-Bills, i wonder what will happen if PGI re-introduce R&R?

"swapping engine between mechs in same weight class needs (x) hours and (x) C-Bills, for different weight class needs (y) hours and (y) C-Bills"

all hell will break loose

But that would be fine, that is what we need

[Denolven]

Raiyuken, on 08 July 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

I'm sitting at almost 100mil C-bills no Premium time used since Clan... Not sure why people are whining that much about C-bills.

Because not everyone plays 24/7. Normal people have lives outside of gaming. The casual gamers I have asked can barely afford a second mech without getting frustrated about the grind, and that is WITH the cadet bonus. For a game that is supposedly 50% about tinkering, the game does pretty little to encourage it. Wasn't big deal if we could actually test the stuff (PlanetSide added that for a good reason a while ago, you can test anything for free before you decide where to put those hard earned points). But here you can't. You have to sell your house and 4th child just to be able to buy a mystery box. And that is frustrating, even if there may be good reasons for high prices.

In the current state there's alot more punishment than encouragement, for casual gamers that is. Pro Tip: those are the majority of the gaming industry, so game makers normally try to make their games accessible.
Not that it has to do anything with the topic, but I thought I'd help you to understand the complaints.

[Remarius]

So your argument is that we should base c-bill gain around people that barely ever play?

Perhaps...no?

The reason Planetside 2 allows you to test certain items is they want you to effectively pay rl cash to get them easily.

[SmartmuhahaXD]

Possible Dire Wolf Prime comparison !?

Chassis:

100 ton chassis:
1,931,723 C-Bills A Big ?

Fixed Equipment:
XL 300 Engine:
4,899,583 C-Bills A Big ?
5x Double Heat Sink:
60,000 C-Bills
SUBTOTAL:
4,959,583 C-Bills

Non-Fixed Equipment:

4 ER Large Laser
1,600,000 C-Bills
4 medP Laser
480,000 C-Bills
2 uac 5
800,000 C-Bills
2 uac 5 ammo
18,000 C-Bills
1 LRM 10
200,000 C-Bills
1 LRM 10 ammo
30,060 C-Bills
7 Double Heat Sink:
84,000 C-Bills

SUBTOTAL:

3,212,060 C-Bills

Armor:

608 points of Ferro-Fibrous armor:

339,264 C-Bills

OmniPods:

8 DW OmniPods (438,120 C-Bills/OmniPod):

3,504,960 C-Bills

TOTAL:

Chassis:
1,931,723 C-Bills
Fixed Equipment:
4,959,583 C-Bills
Non-Fixed Equipment:
3,212,060 C-Bills
Armor:
339,264 C-Bills
OmniPods:
3,504,960 C-Bills

GRAND TOTAL:

13,947,590 C-Bills ???

100 Ton chassi and XL 300 Engine prizes are guessed mathematics but everything else should have the right prize !

Edited by SmartmuhahaXD, 11 July 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Patzer]

I always figured Clan mechs and tech would cost more. I agree that Case should be included in omni pods with ammo, however for now It is what it is. Thanks for the breakdown.

[Tombstoner]

Seems fair - But people are going to choke on the dire wolf price.

[Ren Kurogane]

SmartmuhahaXD, on 11 July 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Possible Dire Wolf Prime comparison !?

-snip-

100 Ton chassi and XL 300 Engine prizes are guessed mathematics but everything else should have the right prize !

100 ton chassis is around 5.8M C-Bills (Atlas sold at price ~2.9M C-Bills without any equipment)

[Asmosis]

Remarius, on 11 July 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

Yeah just did 3 direwolves ... found I didn't like the setup on one and changed armament to put in 2 C-ERPPC.. 1.2m just for those.

whats your point? regular IS ERPPC's cost 600k and the clan ones are significantly better so 600k is a steal.

Outfitting my regular atlas cost 2.98mil in weapons, 2mil for engine, and about another 3.5mil on misc equipment like the upgrades to endo, DHS, atremis, BAP etc.

Point is, clan mechs aren't more expensive than IS mechs, the equipment is the same cost. Clan mechs just have more/better options available to them than IS mechs and at a higher quality. Its like looking at the IS mechs that come with XL/atremis/DHS etc standard and complaining they are more expensive.

I would KILL to be able to pay the extra to use clan XL engines which are basically the equivalent of IS regular engines with less weight.

Edited by Asmosis, 11 July 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[MischiefSC]

If I buy an IS mech with an XL, I can use it in another mech. My purchase has independent value. If I buy 3 of the same chassis, I can sell 2 of the engines even. This is not 'equal' or 'balanced'.

If clan weapons are balanced with IS weapons, why are they all significantly more expensive?

If I decide I'm going to buy 1 mech of each weight class, 3 chassis of each, and outfit them, I'm going to spend about 30-50% more doing so with clan mechs with cbills.

You can try and justify it however you want. The reality is that you've introduced Clan mechs as being 'balanced with IS mechs' but significantly more expensive. This just creates more space between the haves and the have-nots and creates more of a disparity between more experienced players and newer players and between people who play cash for the game and those who don't.

This wasn't a factor before. You seemed to take pride in preventing it from being a factor.

PGI, what changed that this isn't as important to you? Was it just how much money you got from the Clan and Phoenix offers?

[Denolven]

Remarius, on 11 July 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

So your argument is that we should base c-bill gain around people that barely ever play?
Perhaps...no?
The reason Planetside 2 allows you to test certain items is they want you to effectively pay rl cash to get them easily.

1. I didn't argue about anything, I just explained why people complain about the grind.
2. There are more clever ways than "either black or white". A game can be designed for both casual gamers and hardcore gamers.
3. I don't see a problem with the Planestide approach. Save grind by spending money, totally ok for me. MWO does exactly the same with MC prices for mechs. The only difference is that in MWO you buy the pig in the poke and are screwed if you find out it's not what you thought it would be, resulting in disappointment and frustration (no more cash for PGI). In PlanetSide, people will continue to spend cash, because they know what they get. even if they change their mind about the personal value of the bought item, they still don't feel betrayed.

Edited by Denolven, 12 July 2014 - 02:44 AM.

[Gremlinn]

Woot, they forgot to charge the 1.5 million cbill for the double heat sinks. I already had most of the mechs priced out using your same equation other than I added the 1.5 million cbills for the double heat sinks.

[Gremlinn]

Denolven, on 12 July 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

1. I didn't argue about anything, I just explained why people complain about the grind.
2. There are more clever ways than "either black or white". A game can be designed for both casual gamers and hardcore gamers.
3. I don't see a problem with the Planestide approach. Save grind by spending money, totally ok for me. MWO does exactly the same with MC prices for mechs. The only difference is that in MWO you buy the pig in the poke and are screwed if you find out it's not what you thought it would be, resulting in disappointment and frustration (no more cash for PGI). In PlanetSide, people will continue to spend cash, because they know what they get. even if they change their mind about the personal value of the bought item, they still don't feel betrayed.

I agree with you on testing a hero mech, if even it is only allowed in the testing grounds and for a limited time like 30 minutes or 1 hr before you cannot test it again. I did buy one hero mech that I was instantly offput by and regreted it. However, I don't want to see a bunch of noobs testing out hero mechs and more so clan mechs now that they are out (wait until they come out for cbills)in the game, it is just not right.

[dragnier1]

Gremlinn, on 15 July 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Woot, they forgot to charge the 1.5 million cbill for the double heat sinks. I already had most of the mechs priced out using your same equation other than I added the 1.5 million cbills for the double heat sinks.

Those don't get charged if they come stock on IS mechs either. Check pheonix mechs for examples

[Flying Fox 333]

I created a Google spreadsheet of the C-Bill and MC prices for all the clan mech variants.

https://docs.google....fTa8Oo9fIsTRoSQ

Russ seems to have quoted a much higher amount of C-Bills for the clan LB5-X AC ammunition on the Kit Fox. It differs from the price in game.

The only item I haven't been able to calculate correctly at the moment is the cost of the armour. It seems to vary from chassis to chassis with the IS battlemechs. So I've used Russ's figure as the definitive amount per armour point. The totals shouldn't be off by much as a result of this however.

If somebody at either PGI or elsewhere knows how this works, I'd appreciate a reply and will update the spreadsheet accordingly.

[Gremlich Johns]

Denolven, on 11 July 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Because not everyone plays 24/7. Normal people have lives outside of gaming. The casual gamers I have asked can barely afford a second mech without getting frustrated about the grind, and that is WITH the cadet bonus.

I have 107+ mil c-bills, 20,000 founder's MC and craploads of unused Premium time and I play MAYBE 7-10 hours per 7-day week.

your argument is fail.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 26 July 2014 - 01:56 PM.

[Dulahan]

Gremlich Johns, on 26 July 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

I have 107+ mil c-bills, 20,000 founder's MC and craploads of unused Premium time and I play MAYBE 7-10 hours per 7-day week.

your argument is fail.

The Founders stuff ALONE makes your argument invalid.

I have a hard time saving up for a single mech, despite maybe getting 5-10 hours. I just FINALLY bit off the bullet to buy the Advanced Targeting Retention module, or whatever it is called. And weeped, because it means I'm probably going to spend a MONTH just to afford the first Clan mech I'll get with C-Bills, or whatever new IS Mech comes out if it is one I'm interested in (Black Knight lands? IT WILL BE MINE!!!). That 6 Million took me much of a month of my free time playing just to afford.

I've -never- had more than 12 Million or so. EVER. And that was when I was most active. Sadly most of that went just to upgrading Phoenix Mechs.

No, this game is a bloody grind to play. It takes forever to get just one mech. I dread the grind to afford a set of 3.

[Xiang]

Dulahan, on 26 July 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

The Founders stuff ALONE makes your argument invalid.

I have a hard time saving up for a single mech, despite maybe getting 5-10 hours. I just FINALLY bit off the bullet to buy the Advanced Targeting Retention module, or whatever it is called. And weeped, because it means I'm probably going to spend a MONTH just to afford the first Clan mech I'll get with C-Bills, or whatever new IS Mech comes out if it is one I'm interested in (Black Knight lands? IT WILL BE MINE!!!). That 6 Million took me much of a month of my free time playing just to afford.

I've -never- had more than 12 Million or so. EVER. And that was when I was most active. Sadly most of that went just to upgrading Phoenix Mechs.

No, this game is a bloody grind to play. It takes forever to get just one mech. I dread the grind to afford a set of 3.

If you play 5 hours per week earning approx 75-120k per match (lets say 75k low side), 5 matches per hour, that is 375k per hour or 1.875 Mill c-bills per week, so yes it will take you 1 month to earn enough c-bills for a 6 million c-bill module. You really cant expect to keep up with someone playing 10-20 hours per week, not to mention those that play much more. It has nothging to do with founders, especially since he says he hasnt used it. Yes, it is there for the future when he wants to use it, but it says nothing about what he currently has.

I am a Phoenix Overlord like you, that is the only package i have bought besides some spare MC for mechbays. I own no hero mechs and i have not used my Phoenix premium time or any other premium time (except the 1 free day that was given away recently) and I currently have 19 mechs fully tweaked out (not counting those i built, master and sold) and 72 mill c-bills in the bank waiting for clan mechs. I also own maybe 6-7 modules and buy air strikes and arty as i feel like it. I play 3 hours per day, 5 days a week (so roughly 15 hours per week). There are many weeks, that i dont even get to play at all due to family obligations, so that lowers my weekly average a little. I typically earn about 100-110k c-bills per match (according to my game stats anyway).

I was in the same boat as you for a long time, never feeling like i had any money. All my money was going to new mechs and modules, but i decided to stop buying mechs temporarily and started saving up money. I started using my phoenix variants more for the bonus and 4 months later, i have 72 mill....

Keep plugging away, you will get there.

Xiang

Edited by Xiang, 27 July 2014 - 12:44 AM.

[DaddyP1G]

I don't think the grind is the major problem. (Although its long) You can play League of Legends and it takes just as long to grind for a New character. The problem with MWO is you need to do that 3 times to "MAXIMIZE a character" because you need to get it to Elite.