29 replies to this topic

[Dunning Kruger Effect]

They look cooler, the cockpit view seems awesome, and people seem to cram them full of JJ so they spend more time flying than walking. Torso twist/agility seems better (although it wouldn't be hard.) They seem pretty tough (perhaps due to spreading the damage via JJ)

However Shadowhawks are so versatile. I wouldn't be surprised if they could duplicate many of the most popular Griffin builds.

Any reason to get the Griffin besides the "cool" factor? Any unique builds BESIDES LRM-boats? (LRMs tend to make a mech less fun for me)

[The Great Unwashed]

Well, you can go GRF-1N with a shield side. That's a 50+ brawler alpha.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 11 July 2014 - 12:55 AM.

[LuInRei]

I've been using this Jack-of-all-Trades http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8d1340b5f52f73c with some success.

[Magna Canus]

If you don't already have it for some reason then don't bother. The Shadowhawk line is better than the Griffon line in all aspects.

[CheeseThief]

The Griffin handles a lot better than the Shadow Hawk and has large shield arms.

[Dunning Kruger Effect]

Yeah, I know it handles better. Also look cooler. has better cockpit. But does it offer a difference in playstyle and weapon loadouts?

I'm pretty sure I could make most of the above builds in a 2D, 2K or 2D2.

I quite like them, but I'm wondering if my C-bills are better spent elsewhere, so I can try more distinctly different loadouts and playstyles.

Edited by Dunning Kruger Effect, 11 July 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[mogs01gt]

I have both. The Griffin handles 10x better than the Shawk does. I prefer the Griffin. Yes the Shawk has better hardpoints but the Shawk handles like a heavy rather than a Medium

Bottom line:
Get the Griffin if you want more agility
Get the Shawk if you want ballistics.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Yeah Shadowhawk is more of a gunners mech, the griffin for those with better piloting skills; the griffin isnt as diverse but it has fantastic maneuverability and torso twist speed/range. (mastered it can essentially look at its own ass)

Griffin is alot meaner now that SRMS do more reliable damage, but before the 3M SSRM2 boat was damn potent on its own, either way its a damn good infighter.

[Redshift2k5]

Griffin does a few specific things the Shadowhawk doesn't. More JJ and a huge amount of torso twist are the main differences, but the Griffin also has more missile tubes, more energy weapons on average, and can be built with 'shield sides'.

Shadowhawk is a stronger generalist, also has ballistics, but fewer LRM tubes, fewer energy, and much less torso turn.

Even when you can load the same build (such as triple SRM6/ASRM4 and some MLAS) there will be differences in handling which comes down to personal preference.

[Koniks]

The only thing I'd add to Redshift's comments is that, at least for now, the SHD is also more meta-compliant. That may change with the JJ modifications in the next patch.

[oldradagast]

The Griffin has better handling, better cockpit visibility, and the ability to fire up to 20 missiles in a salvo, which is handy if you're building an LRM based medium mech... which it does at least as well as the Trenchbucket, ironically.

That being said, you do give up a bit of tanking power and have zero ballistics. Also, the weapon hardpoints on the Griffins are all rather odd and tend to discourage brawling for fear of losing too much firepower with 1 component loss.

[Ertur]

[PeeWrinkle]

I like them both, and have them both. I have mastered all 5 Shadowhawks and all 3 Griffins. So I would recommend getting them both because they both play completely different in my opinion.

However if I were choosing one chassis over another I would probably go with the Griffin. Only because it is much more maneuverable. It will be faster, it can twist and move it arms more, and it can jump further. It can also hold a lot of smaller weapons that do nice damage. I usually make fast support builds or light hunters with streaks. Also some variants allow you to use a shield arm, which is great for it mobility.
Because of that I think this one is more forgiving for newer or less experienced players and you can try a lot of different loadouts on one chassis that are effective.

Now all that said, I love autocannons, so I love my Shadowhawks! Probably my favorite medium chassis, although I am falling hard for the Stormcrow now! LOL
Another positive of the Shadowhawk is you can literally build it to mimic any of the other IS medium mechs in the game.

Yep that sounds pretty contradictory I know. But they are both very good mechs. Here are a couple of builds I have used with great success for each chassis.

Griffin 3M: use this as light hunter/support mech. Keep those assaults safe!
I have another build that drops the 2 ML for 2LL along with a ton of ammo and a few JJs. It is particular nasty!
Griffin 3M Support: Purely support with this one, but group firing those 4SRM6's at close range is devastating and always unexpected for this mechs speed.
Griffin 1S: I usually make this my LRM boat. It does pretty well. I have used several variations but I like this one the best.
Griffin 1N: I play this one almost exactly like my 3M, except I rarely use streaks. I pretty much go with 3SRM6 and 3MPL or 3LL. If I use the 3LL i drop the AMS. With the speed and maneuverability it is negligible anyway.

And those are just some of my favorite Griffin Builds.

I probably have 30 Shadowhawk builds I have used, so I wont list them all here. The reason I have so many is you can do just about any medium mech build on it successfully. Light hunter with speed an streaks, AC20 with JJ's, missile boat, etc. They all can work and work well. Here are a couple of my favorite builds for this chassis.
Shadowhawk 2D: I like this over the 2D2 because I can get that extra ML.
Ironically the 2H was my least favorite of the chassis, but not is my favorite!
SH 2H Build1
SH 2H Build2
I have several variations of those two plus several others for the 2H. You can even do an AC20 build on it if you want.
SH 2K: Again I have several builds for this one too, but I started experimenting with this one and really liked it. Nice pinpoint damage with the ERPPCs
SH 5M: I like this one because I can pretty much constantly fire.

On the 5M and 2H you can even do Dakka builds with AC2's, AC5's, and/or UAC5's. I am not a big Dakka fan, but they do reasonably well.

So I hope I did not make your decision tougher! LOL

[Rhaythe]

SRM24 Griffins. That's a fun one.

[Kin3ticX]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2025eaf9fad874a
std 290, 10 DHS, 4xSRM-6, 6 tons ammo, 1Mlas backup, 1 jj

[warner2]

Does anyone know, or know how to find out, what the archetype [http://mwomercs.com/...ement-behavior] of each 'mech is? Just wondering why the Griffin would handle better than a Shadow Hawk as a few of you have suggested. I only have a Shadow Hawk so can't compare. I thought perhaps they might have different archetypes. I know the Griffin has better torso twist than the Hawk (but not as good as the Wolverine).

Griffin can do 4xSRM6 which no Shadow Hawk can do.

[Kjudoon]

Dunning Kruger Effect, on 11 July 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

They look cooler, the cockpit view seems awesome, and people seem to cram them full of JJ so they spend more time flying than walking. Torso twist/agility seems better (although it wouldn't be hard.) They seem pretty tough (perhaps due to spreading the damage via JJ)

However Shadowhawks are so versatile. I wouldn't be surprised if they could duplicate many of the most popular Griffin builds.

Any reason to get the Griffin besides the "cool" factor? Any unique builds BESIDES LRM-boats? (LRMs tend to make a mech less fun for me)

Yes You can make a heck of a sniper out of the 1S with Dual PPCs/ERPPCs or ERLLs

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cbc201a65c5b0e4

Just threw this together and it mimicks a KTO 20 build that was quite successful for a guy I knew.

[Rogue Jedi]

I play Griffins as brawlers with SRMs, using a 300+ engine and at least 3 JJs, a mastered Griffin has a LOT of torso twist, (it can fire arm mounted weapons 180degrees behind), handling is way better then the Shadow Hawk, the Griffin has the speed and maneuverability to close in on the enemy and the agility to spread damage and track most other Mechs, even lights.

here are the Griffin builds I use, non of these have Ghost Heat

SRM Brawler
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e16d9fc6194304
use the MLs and SRMs until heat becomes an issue, then just use the SRMs until you cool off a bit, at which point you can use the MLs again

LRMisher
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d52d05403bb35e8
do not allow the enemy to get inside 180m, despite this being a slower build you can still outrun most heavies so use your speed to determine engagement range, do not be afraid to TAG your own targets

Brawler with a bit of long range
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...56af52c70af1874
use the ERLL when out of SRM range, the MLs and SRMs when you get into range, when you start to run hot stop using the lasers but you can keep firing the SRMs until you run out of ammo you will not overheat

on all builds reallocate armor to taste


compared to the Griffin a Shadow Hawk has a more varied set of hard-points in exchange for far less agility and less torso twist. If you are after a long range build (especially if you want ballistics) take a Shadow Hawk, if you prefer a close combat harasser/brawler or a 55ton missile boat chose the Griffin (or possibly Wolverine)

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 24 July 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

By far the most effective medium mech I have ever played, is the Griffin 1N. Quite possibly my best mech ever while playing this game, since 2012. The Griffin 3M is alright. I don't like the Griffin 1S. But the Griffin 1N...

This is my GRF-1N build.

• Agility is the best feature of the Griffin, so I use the XL300 engine.
  
• As a medium mech, it's not really a brawler, so much as a ninja. The key is to use its fantastic speed, torso twist and jump jet capacity to put yourself in exactly the right position at all times, to inflict maximum damage.
  
• I use XL instead of STD engine because heat is a huge issue when you're so heavily armed. And speed will give you more survivability than a shield side. I go for speed and heatsinks.
  
• I haven't tried 6 JJs after the JJ nerf, so I'm not sure if I'd still use so many, or maybe replace them with some extra heat sinks.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 24 July 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

What others have said about play style should make the decision for you.

If you like ballistics and balanced loadouts and can accept the poor cockpit view and less range of motion, go with the Shawk.

If you like maneuverability, SRM heavy loadouts and energy weapons, go with the Griffin.

Jody