Jump to content

Which Medium To Chose?


58 replies to this topic

#1 Morgis

    Rookie

  • 1 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

I loved the Griffen, Shadow Hawk and Wolverine since I started playing the table top many years ago. Which one should I run in MWO??? What are the strengths and weaknesses of these models?

#2 DarthPeanut

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • 861 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

I personally love the Shadow Hawks when it comes to mediums. They are my go to mechs.

Good hit boxes, XL friendly, jump jets, can run almost any load out well, and has 5 variants in game currently.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 11 July 2014 - 08:01 AM.


#3 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,082 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

Griffin is a good LRM boat. Also for SRM's. with the Elites done you can run and fire 180+ degrees behind you. Also has JJ's. You have enough energy hard points to cause some concern with just energy load outs. May be the best Medium LRM boat out there when looking at speed number of missile tubes and ammo. The most kills in a mech for me is in the 1N with LRMs.

Shadow Hawk hard to beat. Where to start, dakka, LRMs, SSRM's, SRM's. Not as many energy hard points, but with everything else, you do not need them. You can through a 360 into the thing have SSRMS and chase down lights, especially clan lights. Run with LRMs and cause people nightmares. Then the AC's, through an AC 20 on the thing, JJ's and ML's and have fun. There are many ways to play this chassis.

Wolverine, tough bugger. You have less balistic hard points, but a good number of Missile points. Energy points are good, except for one. It has one in the head. Someone may pass you up for shooting at another target in this mech. then the one with is it 4 or 5 energy hard points in one arm. I think one does not have JJ's. With two of the variants you can also fire 180+ behind you.

I would say the Griffin for me, but recommend the Shadow Hawk for the ability to try various loadouts. It is a jack of all trades and good at many of them.

#4 Wrenchfarm

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Brother
  • Big Brother
  • 1,039 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:17 AM

Tonnage rules MWO. The more tons the better. If tonnage is king, jump-jets are the prince. Having jets makes or breaks your ability to navigate many maps and grants you a tremendous boon in combat.

Given that, the obvious answer is the SHawk. It can do all the builds the other mediums can, only with 5 extra tons and jets. It is the blatantly superior choice and the only reason not to go for it is if you have a strong attachment to a different medium. Since you like the Hawk already, this is win/win for you.

#5 Appogee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 10,966 posts
  • LocationOn planet Tukayyid, celebrating victory

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

+1 for the Shawk. Still the tankiest and most versatile Medium out there.

#6 Spheroid

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,060 posts
  • LocationSouthern Wisconsin

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:42 AM

I would start with Shadow Hawks if you don't know what you want to do. Wolverines are for SRM brawling.

Edited by Spheroid, 11 July 2014 - 08:44 AM.


#7 AlphaToaster

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 839 posts
  • LocationUnited States

Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

Shadowhawks have replaced the Hunchie as the ultimate starter mech mainly due to the JJ's, but because you can do anything with that class.

You have several very strong combinations of hardpoints, all with JJ's.

High mounted ballistics:
3 ballistic/3 missile/1 energy 1H
2 ballistic/2 missile/2 energy 5M
1 ballistic/4 missile/2 energy 2D2
1 ballistic/3 missile/3 energy 2D

High mounted energy:
3 energy/3 missile 2K (this thing runs PPCs or LL great with the high mount point)

Griffins run PPC really well and are strong mechs, but you have some weakness in that a lot of the energy is in one arm, so people tend to aim for your RT or RightARM and you're screwed. You get better missile tubes but the lack of any variant with ballistics makes this a bit more limiting for a first medium. (Favorite Griffin Build = 2PPC in ARM, 3 SSRM2's, 1 med laser, JJ)

Wolverine with ballistics is a solid as hell mech that is probably my personal favorite out of all three, but the other Wolverine variants lack the ballistic options the Shadowhawks come with. Also like the Griffin, the RightARM is a weakness because all the lasers/ballistics are stacked in that arm. (Favorite Wolverine build = AC2+AC5 or AC10 in arm, 3 SSRM2's, 1 med laser, JJ)

Shadowhawks are just that good when you compare all the things you can do with the variants compared to the Griffin/Wolverine.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 11 July 2014 - 09:01 AM.


#8 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:20 AM

I have not played any but the wolverine but i do enjoy it They have some interesting builds and each one is pretty different, an energy based mech, a ballistics based, and a missile boat, so you get to try your hand at 3 unique styles. They are built for hitting hard up close, or, more of a long range skirmisher, at least that is the way i see um.

Fast mobile mechs that pack a punch. with an XL-320 you can do some interesting load outs on the 6K getting 103KPH with tweak for the non JJ varriant. though the others you would probably just want an XL-300 and some JJ's, but still over flexibility. Not meta, but fun!

#9 Angel of Annihilation

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,872 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

Everyone seems to love the Shadow Hawk but I can't get mine to really work for me no matter how I build them out.

The Griffin is the best "Feeling" mech in the game that I have played. I can't explain it but it just seems to dance around the battlefield very light on its feet. However, it has the horrible misfortune of placing all its weapons on one side of the mech and most people just end up trying to take out the right arm and/or poping the RT at the same time. Still I enjoy the mech.

Haven't played the Wolverine but they look pretty good in Smufy's. Eventually I will pick up a Wolvie, but with the upcomning cost of clan mechs, spending 10-12 million to outfit a single Wolvie is off the table at the moment.

#10 Escef

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 8,529 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationNew England

Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:26 PM

The Shadowhawks may well be the best mechs in the game, ton-for-ton. You can do pretty much anything you want with a Shadowhawk. The only drawback is the field of view from the cockpit is somewhat narrow, and the torso and arm articulation is more what you'd expect from a heavy.

The Griffins are pretty good, so long as you don't want to mount a ballistic. Max out the engine, pile in 4 streaks, Beagle, and a pair of Medium Lasers, some jump jets, and the GRF-3M is probably the best light hunter in the game. The Griffin has perhaps the best field of view in the game, and due to excellent arm and torso articulation once fully elited does not have a blind spot. The main draw back being that the variants are so similar that making them feel unique from each other is difficult.

The Wolverine... The 6R feels like a Centurion with jump jets, not bad at all. The 6K is kinda' bad; no jets, 1 missile hardpoint, all energy. The 7K feels a lot like a Griffin.

View PostViktor Drake, on 11 July 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

\However, it has the horrible misfortune of placing all its weapons on one side of the mech and most people just end up trying to take out the right arm and/or poping the RT at the same time.

Given that most people run an XL in the Griffin losing a side torso is death anyway.

#11 Pezzer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 616 posts
  • LocationBristol, Tennessee

Posted 11 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

Shadow Hawks are awesome, but they have two weaknesses.

1. Most of the variant rely on a mix of different hardpoints. Boating isn't gonna happen (not that a 55 ton mech was going to boat crazy weapons anyways..).

2. You're a really tall Mech. That makes you a great sniper, but also super easy to hit. Add to the big ol' claw arms to that and you have a recipe for torso twisting goodness that comes at the price of a big hitbox.

Also, the SHawk isn't quite as maneuverable as other Mediums imo. If you want to try out a fun, small, boxy Mech that torso twist like a champ I would suggest the Wolverine or Hunchie. They make for epic brawlers. If you wanna boat missiles and/or lasers, Kintaro. If you wanna buy one chassis that can do it all, I would suggest the SHawk. A couple of great SHawk builds are (2 LPL, 3 SRM) (AC/20, lasers, SRM4s) (3 AC/5s and a medium laser).

Edited by Pezzer, 11 July 2014 - 10:32 PM.


#12 Tiamat of the Sea

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guardian
  • Guardian
  • 1,326 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:01 PM

For the most part, there's no reason to take Griffins. You can mount virtually any loadout that a Griffin can run on a Wolverine, and the Wolverine variants differ more than the Griffin variants do, as well as typically having the missiles on the opposite shoulder from the gun arm and having a headmount weapon. The Wolverine and Griffin have the same tonnage (and thus armor and structure limitations), same speeds, and same jumpjet mountings as well, so as things currently stand there's next to no point to Griffins by comparison. I believe one of them has one more missile hardpoint than the largest number available on a Wolverine, and that's pretty much it.

As for Wolverine versus Shadow Hawk.... Shadow Hawks are less appropriate for extended jumping maneuvers, having fewer jets. They're generally worse for brawling with their field of view limitations, high cockpit, and much heavier predication towards torso-mount weapons. However, the high shoulder weapon mounts are excellent for hill-humping and jump-sniping, and also wonderful for peeking around upper corners of things. Griffins and Wolverines are both a bit broader than Shadow Hawks as well (although shorter).

If you care about it, Shadow Hawks tend to be targeted more often to boot.

#13 TuntematonSika

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 122 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • LocationPig with an identity crisis.

Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:24 PM

If you want to get the shadowhawk, get an XL and up the armour immediately! I've had terrible experiences with the mech, so I just sold that and swapped to a kintaro.

Mediums then again are starting to get out of my play style.

#14 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 11 July 2014 - 11:30 PM

let me add.... one of the shadow hawks is the "meta" Soo if trying that is what you want... that is the choice... that said, we don't know what the new meta will be

#15 BigFatGator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 265 posts

Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:35 PM

I don't always run mediums, but when I do, I prefer Shadowhawks.

#16 Sewman

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 63 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA

Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:45 PM

I've just recently purchased the Griffins and am in the process of getting them elited so I think I've got a pretty fresh perspective. (Sorry, can't comment on Wolverines) I own all SHD's except the 2D and it's safe to say that it's probably my favourite mech if I want to have fun, do some reliable damage and play around with the greatest variety of different loadouts.

I tend to favour a more aggressive brawling play style rather than LRM support role.

With the recent SRM buff, I recently got more into SRM brawler builds and the 2D2 and 2K have been awesome. The best combination so far has been the 2K with a PPC and 3X ASRM6. I can pretty reliably get 500+ dmg with a few 800+ rounds sprinkled in there if I happen to catch any distracted assaults. The 2K has the highest mounted shoulder laser so you can keep most of your profile hidden (the 3M's shoulder torso laser is slightly lower so you end up hitting earth a bit more).

After falling in love with SRM builds, I looked into the Griffins as a fast SRM striker (supposedly one of the most manuevrable mechs in the game). So far, my experience is that the GRF-3M is pretty good and will only get better once elited, but I have noticed that it dies to Side Torso deaths a lot more than the SHD. It is very noticeable and I'm wondering if other's have noticed the same. I think the Griffin's hitboxes are pretty good (and has good ability to use the arms as shield) but it's definitely easier to hit the Side torsos than the SHD. Just not as XL friendly as I'd thought. I die so much more frequently to Side Torso deaths than the SHD's ever did.

The 1N and 1S are definitely weaker as most Griffin pilots agree. Some people really like the right biased weaponry and I too enjoy having the choice to have the left side as a shield but I was very surprised at how often the right arm got blown off. As some others have mentioned in Griffin threads, It's definitely true that no matter how much twisting you do to hide and protect your Right Arm weapons, it'll get blown off very frequently especially if you've got LRMs coming from all directions. I envisioned the 1N as a great short range brawler but was not prepared to lose that right arm almost every time I got in close. These 2 variants beg you to use them as Long Range LRM support mechs with tag. If you want a short range brawler, take the GRF-3M or the SHD-2D2 or 2K.

I'd definitely say that the SHD's are still the most survivable (best hitboxes) and have the greatest variety of builds. If you have the 2K or the 2D2, you can do a lot of what the 3M can do if Streaks or SRM builds are your thing. So similar that I don't know if it's worth it to try and elite another chassis just to be able to achieve pretty much the same thing.


Even though it's not my preference, I suppose I now have a Chassis that is geared towards mobile LRM builds. On whether or not to get both: I don't think you NEED to have Griffins if you have Shadowhawks which can do it all and can tank damage better.

But if you like LRMs, then Griffins are much better suited with the 15 tube shoulder missile launcher. The cockpit visibility is indeed much better in the Griffin and I think that the 3M can probably outdo the 2D2 as a streak boat/light hunter because of the torso twist.

#17 mogs01gt

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 4,292 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

I prefer the Griffins. The Shawks a bit less agile and you really feel it in game. Sadly Griffins want to run Missile base builds but LRMs are countered all to hell and SRMs have hit registration issues still.

#18 EyeOne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,488 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationCockpit, Stone Rhino

Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:42 AM

Of those 3 Griffins are my favorite just because they are super nimble. I use all three on regular basis. I use the 1N the most and it's a mid range brawler based around an ER PPC and SRM10. The 3M is a pure SRM boat and the 1S is a little more difficult to build for but mine is also based around SRMs.

Griffin's can LRM better than the Shadowhawks too as they have larger tube counts. But I tend to prefer my LRMs on slower mechs (Hunchback-4J, Wolverine-7K).

Another of my most used mechs is the Wolverine-6R based on dual AC2s and triple LRM5s. This mech is actually my highest KD mech. And I'd place it on my top 5 favorite mechs in the game easily. The problem with the Wolverines as a chassis is the 6K variant. The 6K has no JJs, lots of energy in one location and a single (10 tube) missile hardpoint that is mostly useless.

Shadowhawks probably have the most diversity as it can mount any ballistic, a lot of missiles and some energy.

I'd go with Griffins > Shadowhawks > Wolverines

Griffins:
1N > 3M > 1S

Shadowhawks:
2H > 2D2 > 5M > 2K

Wolverine:
6R > 7K >>>>> 6K

But really you can't go wrong with any of them.

Edited by EyeOne, 25 July 2014 - 06:48 AM.


#19 KHETTI

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 1,328 posts
  • LocationIn transit to 1 of 4 possible planets

Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:55 AM

Other notable mediums:~

Treb 7K makes a nice ERPPC+PPC boat, with an XL and speed tweak its fast, great for repositioning quickly.

Kintaros, make great SRM boats and light fast LRM boats.

Cicada 3M, has ECM and is a popular dual PPC sniper. Also works well with dual ERLL or LPLas

Hunchback, each variant offers something different, has excellent torso twist range and speed when mastered, 4P/SP are the best variants imo.

#20 Nightmare1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 7,636 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.

Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:04 AM

Shadow Hawks are an awesome Mech! They offer a diverse amount of load-out options and are tough fighters with an excellent degree of maneuverability. You can't go wrong with them.

View PostKHETTI, on 25 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

Hunchback, each variant offers something different, has excellent torso twist range and speed when mastered, 4P/SP are the best variants imo.


Agreed, except that my favorites are the 4G and 4H. :(

Hunchback is probably the most newb-friendly Mech out there, and remains a dependable workhorse. It's been nerfed by recent patches, but remains a classic Mech with a lot of options.

If you're having trouble learning the mechanics of the game, go with the Hunchie. If you feel that you have a good handle on MWO, then go with the Shadowhawk. Either way, you won't regret it! :)





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users