29 replies to this topic

[Nippon]

Hello pilots!

After the launch of clan mechs, is there a chance for a comeback of the Dragon chassis?
I'm referring to the fact, that nearly any clan mech got a huge center torso which u can hit from the side. It's time to release the dragons - in my opinion.

Please tell me/us your thoughts

[Ryokens leap]

Just get the Stormcrows, they are everything the Dragons should have been.

[Blue Hymn]

Problem.
From past observations and deductions, PGI most likely won't do some rework on the chassis for two reasons; a.) it's not piloted often, with the community having a not-so-popular opinion about it and b.) why do a rework on something which doesn't yield them profit? Kind of a depressing situation, but just look at how long it took for them to even pay attention to the problems on an Awesome chassis. And even then it was just some minor tweaks that didn't resolve anything at all.

[tm10067]

Theres no problem to go in a dragon along or against clan mechs. It has superior speed and still good enough punch. Sale dragon-flame is just excellent for quick charges.

Edited by tm10067, 13 July 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[Modo44]

The mech is not as terribad as people would tell you, but it is weaker than the 55 ton mediums and 65 ton heavies. It is also extremely expensive because you need all upgrades plus a huge XL engine (XL300 is the bare minimum) for a decent build.

As for the model, do not expect more than weapon customization, which the Dragon is still waiting for. If PGI had any intention of doing big model redesigns, they would have slimmed down the Awesome long ago. And no, hitbox changes will not fix the huge, easy to hit model.

[CyborgDragon]

The Dragon is a better 'mech than most people give it credit for... but I'm not gonna lie, I'd like to see the Dragon actually be a Dragon like it was originally intended, not a Grand Dragon with Dragon loadouts.



With that cannon arm it probably wouldn't have actuators, so perhaps it would be able to mount an AC20... PGI pls ;~;

Edited by CyborgDragon, 13 July 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

I came up with a system to judge 'mechs. Its not perfect but using a model like this it shows how the Dragon fairs poorly against other choices. Even though the QKD lacks ballistics, I would still rather have the JJs then use the Dragon.

https://docs.google.....g272189aab_790

I would like to see the Dragon variants get some strong perks.

• loyalty, c-bill, xp bonuses for being registered as a Kurita while piloting a Dragon
  
• Reduced cooldown ~10% on ballistic arm
  
• Reduced cooldown ~10% on CT missiles
  
• -or- High mount ballistic as shown in picture above. Me gusta mucho.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 July 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[RockmachinE]

I can't tell you about bringing the Dragon back, but I'm a long time Dragon user. It's a hard chasis to play, but I think its underrated. It's a heavy mech with a bunch of armor, it will survive so long as you hide the hood, it can bring decent damage to the fight and it does all of this at ~100kph. I think this is often overlooked its almost the fastest you can get a heavy mech to move and it shows.

Before clans this mech was a beast. It could outrun almost anything, meaning I got to choose where or when to fight which, if you ask me, is the key to MWO *in solo. My primary enemies were fast mediums with heavy firepower like the shadowhawk for example, but I would gladly take them on. I never understood why people don't use dragons. Yes they're easy to hit, but make them go fast and you dictate who hits where when. And they're some of the fastest mechs if you combine how much armor and firepower they can bring at that speed. Almost unmatched.

Since the clan invasions though its not as functional as it used to be. The main asset, I felt, was its speed and the armor and firepower it can bring at that speed. Now with clans you basically have almost everything able to outrun you or at least chase you long enough to kill you... and almost everything has more firepower then you. So that asset is gone. The Stormcrow is basically the advanced dragon, I'm eagerly waiting for it to go CBill since I don't want to sped hard $ on the game. BUT it can still be played effectively as a support mech, its fast enough to manouver out of trouble, but still hits hard enough to kill things. If I have a normal round I usually average at about 400-500 with at least one kill, despite the Clans making me work hard for it. I had to adjust my tactics big time and I have to get involved in 1v1 less, because a lot of things have an advantage over me now. Crows are my hated enemies, they bring way more firepower, but I like to pick on them anyways and usually die in a brawl unless I'm extremely tactical.

The build I run is XL360, 1x LB10x, 4x Mpulse. It used to house AMS, but now I dropped it, since it gets depleted after 1 ******* minute due to the LRM storms recently. It also sported 4x Mlas instead of pulse, but these days even 4 extra dmg per alpha is a necessity. And peeking has become deadly, so the less I have to stay on target the better. Have to keep up with the clans.

Dragons are super rare these days, so much so, I get excited when I see one. Like long lost family or something. Try it, make sure you make it go fast and max that armor, twist that hood out of the way when you have to and you won't be disappointed.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 13 July 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

The best thing they could do (and the thing they have stubbornly ignored) Is to shave down the beer gut to resonable levels (it shouldnt jut out that damn far) but with how LAZY they can get the best you can hope for is a CT quirk like they gave to the legs of the locust or ballistic arms on my Warhawk: bonus to internal structure health or armor strength.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 13 July 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[John80sk]

No matter how you roll it the Dragon is an inferior chassis if you're looking to Min/Max. I run mine quite frequently in the PUG queue though simply because I like the challenge.

The dragon can actually do fairly well as a long range flanker, rotating around the outskirts of the fight and picking at the sides of the enemy line. For that particular role I prefer the 1C with its high mounted energy slots.

Really though, the clans are able to make up for those big CT's with significantly more firepower. The Dragon isn't any better than it was yesterday.

[Tesunie]

My Dragon is one of my best performers when I bring it out. I don't often play if, cause I'm an LRM guy and my Dragon strangely doesn't have any LRMs on it, but it's still a blast to play with!

The thing about the Dragon is, you can't just use it like any other mech, or any other heavy mech. It's a mech that fills a very specific role and preforms poorly when it is placed or forced outside of that role. It's one of the few mech chassis that is locked within it's intended role because of hard points and hard point placements. This, I feel, is a bigger reason that the Dragon is not favored over other mechs, and isn't really an issue about it's hit boxes all that much (that is just a convincing point people use).

I've run my Dragons fast, and I've run them slow, each to decent effect. I've run them with some LRMs to support as I move into position with some larger weapons (and slow), and I (tend to) run them as a light mech hunter, fast striker, hit and run flanker (SSRMs and fast). (They are better with the speed.)

Dragons are great chassis, but not a mech just anyone can play. They are often fast enough to get into trouble, but too slow to get back out of trouble if you aren't careful about it. Due to this limited selection of playstyle and mech driven roles, it tends to lead people away from it. (It's also the lightest heavy mech with no JJs of any kind. If it was a Medium mech, people would love it. As a heavy mech, people tell you to take a heavier ("real heavy") mech instead to "benefit the team more". (Read this as people wishing to min-max.) However, if played correctly, a Dragon can do more damage than any other heavy in the game... or if played incorrectly (bad luck even sometimes) can do very little considering it's weight and just fall apart.)

[Sahoj]

I'd adore running a stock Fang in a stock game mode - but I just can't hit hard enough with it for it to be viable to play standard.

...and I've many hundreds of matches in this mech.

Fit an AC20 in the arm and I'd be good to go.

I play brawlers. The 'fluff' behind the Fang being one is why I bought it (and arm-mounted ballistics).
Hunchbacks brawl more better.

I'll still throw out 700-800 damage matches in my 1C variant.

Edited by Sahoj, 13 July 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

I started driving mine again a few days ago, max 360xl engine, 2mg, 2LL 2 srm4s. It did quite well.

At least for things like the dragon and awesome it comes down to a players skill and ability to read the battleground. This isnt the mg cicada or the 5v spider we are talking about here.

[Nippon]

Ah oh-okay, now i get it.
So the Dragon is a unique chassis with needs a wise pilot and a good setup. With an CTF-3D or a TBR you need less luck/skill and can have more success. When my C-Bills account has some spare money, i will buy some Dragons. I was very impressed by the Champion Dragon and only two things were preventing me from a tripple Dragon purchase:

My expensive Awesome fetish and some modul / XL engine costs.

[RockmachinE]

Tesunie, on 13 July 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

My Dragon is one of my best performers when I bring it out. I don't often play if, cause I'm an LRM guy and my Dragon strangely doesn't have any LRMs on it, but it's still a blast to play with!

The thing about the Dragon is, you can't just use it like any other mech, or any other heavy mech. It's a mech that fills a very specific role and preforms poorly when it is placed or forced outside of that role. It's one of the few mech chassis that is locked within it's intended role because of hard points and hard point placements. This, I feel, is a bigger reason that the Dragon is not favored over other mechs, and isn't really an issue about it's hit boxes all that much (that is just a convincing point people use).

I've run my Dragons fast, and I've run them slow, each to decent effect. I've run them with some LRMs to support as I move into position with some larger weapons (and slow), and I (tend to) run them as a light mech hunter, fast striker, hit and run flanker (SSRMs and fast). (They are better with the speed.)

Dragons are great chassis, but not a mech just anyone can play. They are often fast enough to get into trouble, but too slow to get back out of trouble if you aren't careful about it. Due to this limited selection of playstyle and mech driven roles, it tends to lead people away from it. (It's also the lightest heavy mech with no JJs of any kind. If it was a Medium mech, people would love it. As a heavy mech, people tell you to take a heavier ("real heavy") mech instead to "benefit the team more". (Read this as people wishing to min-max.) However, if played correctly, a Dragon can do more damage than any other heavy in the game... or if played incorrectly (bad luck even sometimes) can do very little considering it's weight and just fall apart.)

I think this is very well put and hits the needle on the head. Very well written and analyzed!

[Strum Wealh]

CyborgDragon, on 13 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

The Dragon is a better 'mech than most people give it credit for... but I'm not gonna lie, I'd like to see the Dragon actually be a Dragon like it was originally intended, not a Grand Dragon with Dragon loadouts.



With that cannon arm it probably wouldn't have actuators, so perhaps it would be able to mount an AC20... PGI pls ;~;

The original Dragon layouts & record sheets show that the 'Mech has always had Lower Arm Actuators (LAAs) in both arms.
In fact, the original record sheets for both the standard Dragon AND the Grand Dragon (both of which are found in Record Sheets, Volume 3) show that both possess LAAs in both arms & neither originally possessed the left Hand Actuator.

The old illustration, that people seem to believe is showing it without a LAA in the Right Arm, is ostensibly just showing the 'Mech with its arm raised for straight-arm shooting.




The original MWO Dragon rendition was made up as lacking the Right Arm's LAA; when it was pointed out that it should be there, PGI fixed it.

[Bigbacon]

I bought a Flame today out of curiosity of having never seen a dragon in match and didn't even know what it was when I saw it in the testing grounds the other day.

Still HATE heavies with those low slung arms....

trying different things with it but since I don't feel like moving my bigger XLs off other mechs and into it I'm using the STD that comes with it.

right now on 2 ERLLs, 2 MLs, SRM6.

also tried 2 ERLL, 2 LL and need to try 4LLs

Edited by Bigbacon, 14 July 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Modo44]

The STD300 allows for AC20+4xML. This is a decent brawler when you know the maps enough to not die while closing in.

For a really powerful setup, take XL350, Endo, Ferro, Gauss+4xML. You can peek over ridges, but the mech only shines if you learn to fire on the move. The speed helps you offset the huge CT (being an easy target).

[1453 R]

The issue with the Dragon is that it’s competing in the wrong weight bracket. I say this as a man who started the game in Dragons and still owns two of my original three.

The Flame is fairly universally accepted as the best/strongest variant (Yes yes, PEE TWO DOUBLEYOU. Shaddap), because of its high/tight-mounted LT ballistic hardpoint allowing for sniping work as well as STD-engine AC/20 brawling. Or, to put it another way…the same thing every Shadowhawk ever except for the 2K does not, with jump jets, in the vastly friendlier medium weight bracket, and without needing to blow cash. With the introduction of the SHD-2K, the Shadow Hawk can even mimic the DRG-1C’s high-mount shoulder energy hardpoints.

The Dragon’s hardpoints are typically laid out fairly poorly in terms of competitive game balancing, it was introduced before Piranha got into serious hardpoint inflation for IS chassis, and the one niche it had – fast XL strike-and-fade fighting – is not only better done on the IS side by medium ‘Mechs, it’s enormously better done by basically every clan ‘Mech out there that isn’t an assault.

It’s a real shame – I still think the Dragon has a lot of character and is one of the more visually interesting ‘Mechs in the game, and there was once a time, long ago, where even if it wasn’t a fantastic ride you still had to respect its combination of speed and hitting power. These days, though…not so much. You can still do just fine in it, but that’s not because there’s some Hidden Secret to Success you can stumble across. It’s because anyone can have a good game in most anything in Puglandia.

If you’re looking for a ‘Mech with character that’s rarely seen on the field so you can be a rebel, get Wolverines instead. Wolverines can do most of the (sane) loadouts Dragons can, can still jump, are overshadowed by Shadow Hawks like everything else in the 40-60t range, and most importantly count as Mediums according to 3/3/3/3. You’ll get lower queue times and won’t be expected to compete on an even footing with Timber Wolves.

[Zolaz]

If you like the Dragon you might want to look into a Shadowhawk or Griffin. Easier to play than the Dragon and you dont have to take away Timberwolves from your team. Taking a Dragon is like taking a Battlemaster, there are better chassis out there.