36 replies to this topic

[Friedrich von Luckner]

Greetings fellow Mechwarriors.

I recently came back to the came after playing abit back in BETA. Back then my Rig couldnt handle the game at all but I bought a shiny new Laptop a few weeks ago and since I have been a BattleTech nut forever I gave the game another shot and so far it has been an enjoyable experience community wise.


However I would like to imrpove myself as a Mechwarrior and I feel I probably could contribute more to the battles I am part of if I got a few pointers from more experienced warriors.


My main problem seems to be survivability.

ATM I run pretty much exclusivley this build :http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e644c9a4c2cb0ca

And this one: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f4b64dc9b7444e3

In the process of leveling up the SHD line as I prefer the mobile medium mechs much more then anythign else right now.

I am vastly more successful with the first one, usually running between 300-500 damage in a game, which may be not stellar, but I hope at least competent considering I am a one week noob

With the second build I rarely exceed 200 DMG per battle and usually I get cored in the first 5 minutes, unless I have a very strong team. I try to harass from medium range and try to keep the lights off my Lancemates, however I usually get little to no support and get focused down quickly. Especially when I try to plug holes left wide open by my fellow Mechwarriors.

The first built probably caters more to my agressive playstyle thus I might be more successful with it, however getting in the face with the enemy usually means a quick death as well. Same with flanking since usually I get no support and I am not mobile enough to escape 3 heavies focusing me down once I appear in their back or flanks.

Any good pointers how to increase my survivability and thus at least slighty raising my pitiful K/D ratio of 0.3 ?? I read a couple of the excellent guides provided and I might have to practice torso switching and shielding more. For me this is somewhat counterintuitive atm, I am used to "show the stronkest armor to the enemy" .

I exclusivley PUG and I understand that this is probably part of the problem, however I do prefer this atm due to the steep larning curve of the game. I would like to get much more familiar with the mechanics and other aspects of the game before I feel competent enough to be an asset to a fixed group.
I did play WoT for a couple of years in a exclusievly PUG setting and even there I could rise slghtly above the average crop. Here however I feel like I have no ******* clue what I am doing sometimes

Any pointers or critical remarks would be very welcome at this point.

[Kjudoon]

Well, Problem one is the second build is a streakhawk build on a 'meh' SDH chassis.
The Splathawk will give nice damage there, but if youre going in toe to toe with other mechs, you will lose

New players should rarely start out with brawling builds though it's the first place they go. As time goes on and your skill grows, THEN transfer into closer and closer ranges. Think of how Leon trained Matilda. Start with the rifle, then the pistol then the knife. You're right now at the 'rifle' stage and you need to stay far out from the fight for you need other skills to develop first.

Also, heavy mechs are the most forgiving while mediums are the least. Consider the Orion, Cataphract, Thunderbolt or Quickdraw as good sturdy heavies who are very forgiving generally speaking. Get at least 1-2 weapons that have a max range of 1000 or more, and live longer. Do NOT go Assault yet.

Also, aggressive rambo play gets you killed pretty much every time. You burn out in a blaze of glory when usually surviving longer is the bigger key to success. Know when to break out the knives and go in tight... till then have a long range weapon to poke and prod. ERLLs are the best generalist long range weapon.

If you've got fewer than 500 matches under your belt, range is your best bet for survivability. Throw out the SRMs for LRMs, and lose the streaks completely. Otherwise go energy/ballistic heavy and back off to 400m. Standing farther back from the fight gives you a large tactical advantage as well as enables you to learn. If you are going for the adrenaline rush this is going to take you 4 times as long to learn to be good at this game.

The best advice I can give, and I mean THE BEST advice is to join a group. Bar none. Get your self teamspeak. Go peruse the forums Faction/Clan/Merc forums and find what fits you best. I was ready to rage quit after a month of play before I found my home with the Seraphim (www.seekhim.com). I went from having a KDR of 0.3 like yourself to now somewhere over 2.0. At least in my unit, we have training programs for pilots and our lances, companies and even garrison forces focus on bringing new players up to speed quickly in a supportive environment of honor and solid character.

That said, find the unit that matches your desires and will support you. There are dozens out there and this is the real way to learn to play the game. You can do it on your own, but the frustration will be high.

Oh, and Elo will constantly be trying to keep your W/L ratio at .500. Every time you get good, up you go to a higher elo and you get a stomach drop as tougher opponents change the whole feel and grind of the game.

Lastly, do not think that a few hundred games will make you an expert. Most of the best players have thousands if not over thousands of hours of play in already (yes I know of one or two), high level equipment and a dedication that turns the game into a career. I doubt you're seeing them at this stage, but trust me, Elo is protecting you from them.

Good luck.

[Redshift2k5]

LBXes spread damage; SSRMs also spread damage and have low range. I do have a similar build but it uses one less medium laser and an Ultra/5 instead of an lbx10 and it works fairly well but not great. Not exactly a build I would reccomend, although using some LRMs, an Ultra/5 and some medium lasers tends to work a bit better, using the Shadowhawk's maneuverability to stay out of trouble and keep the LRMs in range (you want to be close enough that the LRM have fast time-to-target but far enough they're outside 180)

The best way to improve your raw stats is generally to join a group, not just to improve one's W/L or KDR but also to learn from more experienced pilots in a real match. Easier to learn from those more experienced than to struggle with the mechanics before thinking you're worth joining a group. Most groups love new players and enjoy the opportunity to show them the ropes.

also, why are we only discussing two Shadowhawk builds when you have a Daishi clan pack?

Edited by Redshift2k5, 14 July 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Phobic Wraith]

Well, first off - you mentioned it. The main problem is the learning curve. I strongly suspect that is in part due to a distinct lack of new players. Not disparaging the game in any way here, just trying to be objective. This game has been going a while - and while it is difficult, lots of people have been playing regularly for years now. I personally think that contributes to the difficulty of the game more than anything.

I have no experience whatsoever in driving Shadowhawks, I did start in Hunchbacks. And I think there's a few things that translate no matter what your ride is.

First, I would take a breath and honestly evaluate your skill level not as a whole but in a few different areas, such as #1. aim, #2. levelheadedness (which includes performance under pressure and situational awareness) and #3. survivability, which I think may be the problem you're describing. The way to improve is to go into each match reminding yourself constantly that your goal is not to be the best, but to survive the match. You might need to do that for a while. After you feel like you're pretty scrappy and tough - THEN start focusing on dealing more damage and improving on some other skills.

The I'd much rather be on a team that wins because we're all alive than be on a team of l337 hxxors that can do 800 damage before they kick it 3 minutes into the match.

It's something we all have to remind ourselves of. While everyone knows how to push with the team, sometimes a push isn't appropriate, and just gets everyone killed. It's no one's fault.

I'm certainly not the best player, but when I see someone raging because pugs didn't follow him into a fiery death-trap, I get ulcers. Don't underestimate the pug. They're oftentimes the best survivors, and when everyone can pull together and work as a team... well that's just OP.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Friedrich von Luckner,

Welcome back to MW:O

I'm sure much has changed since you played last. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the game has progressed in your absence. But I digress.

Your second build looks more to me like a light hunter. You have weapons that will work well in legging fast running enemy mechs, but doesn't have the punch to go up against heavily armored undamaged enemies. You would do very well with this near the end of the match once holes have been opened up in the enemy armor, but I see why you struggle with this build. It's a niche build.

I would recommend swapping the LBX for a standard AC/10. You'll get pinpoint damage with the single projectile instead of spreading damage all around. The SSRMs work well for lights, but if you could drop one of yours for a SRM4, that would give you some more damage potential to go along with your ML.

Just a couple observations.

Jody von Jedi

Edited by Jody Von Jedi, 14 July 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

PPC:
SHD-2D
ERLL:
SHD-2D

The problem with short range medium mechs is that with the launch of the Clans pack, even a 30 ton Kit fox can chew you up in close range fights. You wouldn't want to go toe-to-toe with a Nova/Blackhawk in your 2D. The range of clan weapons almost forces you to go either: ERLL. LRMS, or PPC/AC builds. I had to retool my favorite Cataphract 1X to gauss instead of AC20 because of problems closing on some of the more open maps. I was getting chewed to pieces before I could close.

The Kintaros make a more efficient SSRM builds with a big enough engine for speed.

I think retooling to a more range oriented build will help you get your feet on the ground. Focus on targets of opportunity and stay close to your slows to support them.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 14 July 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Mogney]

Lots of great advise here on the builds, but dont worry about any of that. Work on playing conservatively and staying with the main group, both of your builds are short range brawlers, in many matches you will be hanging back in safety waiting for the game to get past the long and medium range engagements to get into its final brawl, where you will shine with those mechs.

Also join a unit, most units have room for guys that only PUG (casual players) but the game is much more fun hanging out with teammates on comms, and it really shortens the learning curve.

good luck.

[Friedrich von Luckner]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Keep it coming

@Kjudoon: Apparently I picked the wrong class to start in...I maxed the Basics in 2 variants of the SHD already so I might as well do the 3rd Chassis and the switch to the heavy Mechs per your advice. I found the Orion chassis to my liking and also the Summoner due to it`s mobility with the JJ. I just suck at long range PPC sniping

Maybe a Orion missile platform would be a good start to learn the situational awareness needed? Or maybe a ER Laser/PPC centirc build?
I probably will look for a group sooner or later. Just have to find an active unit that plays during euro primetime and takes in new players Teamspeak is a non-issue if people can live with my teutonic accent

@Phobic: I would never rage against the PUG....I PUG exclusievly in many games...and while I do die a lot there are also many games where **** just "magically" falls into place and we get awesome battles where I can go in, facemelt, get out and do it again. Then I end up with 4 kills, 8 assists and 2 shot off arms

I will try to hang back more as long as I am finishing the SHD basics per your advice and see how the battle develops and try to pick of stragglers and people wandering into our own lines.

I think my aim at least up to midrange is pretty spot on. At least my hit percentage with the lasers seems to agree
I think situational awareness is reasonably well but improvable since I often see holes in the lines or good/bad positioning of people but can not reall utilise this to the full potential. I think a lack of communication is hindering success there.

Levelheadedness...I probably need lots of work in that department. I dont panic under fire, I try to back off and find the nearest cover. However as soon as I am no longer focus of the attention I feel the urge to jump out and melt faces again in the middle of the fray

@Jodi and Kali:Thanks for the advice on the builds. I will have to look into that. the ERL build seems like something I could work with nicely I guess.

[Bigbacon]

use the builds you like, play around with weird ones but as other people said, just keep on playing. Magic Meta builds aren't going to make you any better.

[Friedrich von Luckner]

@Kali and Jody: Thanks for the advice on the builds. I will look more into those. Especially the ERLLas build seems like something I could work with.

[Redshift2k5]

Stuck at work so I can't offer many of my builds off the top of my head, but mechspecs.com is a great database of mech builds to review

There are plenty of units with Euro players. Have a look in the merc corp, clan section, or IS faction sections. You're welcome to follow my sig to check out DHB as well, we've got an European battalion.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 14 July 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[DeadDefiance]

I feel your pain about not having a good enough computer to run the game with acceptable FPS

Also, are there any guides made for map awareness? I have watched dozens, if not hundreds of guides on different builds, but I think a guide on the finer points of positioning, map awareness, and when to push would be really helpful!

[Friedrich von Luckner]

DeadDefiance, on 14 July 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I feel your pain about not having a good enough computer to run the game with acceptable FPS

Also, are there any guides made for map awareness? I have watched dozens, if not hundreds of guides on different builds, but I think a guide on the finer points of positioning, map awareness, and when to push would be really helpful!

Yeah having a new rig made all the difference. I can run the game with full details and not get any hiccups whatsoever. I am still learning the maps as well. What I miss most is a bit of customisation of the UI like I am used to from WoT. A map overlay in 3rd person mode for example would be nice just to keep an eye on what your unit is doing while maintaining a bit more oversight over the battlefield.

@Redshift. will check out mercspecs and your unit. Thanks for the advice

[Kjudoon]

It's not that you picked 'the wrong' weight class Fredrich. You just have to know what it can and can't do. Medium does require a high degree of skill to really do well. Otherwise, you have to use builds that take advantage of your size, armor, speed and firepower. The Shadowhawk is either an excellent long range sniper or light LRM 5 boat. It can also be a stellar harrasser flanker bringing moderate firepower to bear when targets are otherwise engaged. With the right skill and loadout it is a wicked light hunter which makes it a great escort for the big boys. What role do you want to play?

What it's not suited for is out and out brawling.

So that's step one there. Know your role and stick to it.

Oh, and no matter what. Don't try to be a hero, it never works when you try to make yourself into one. There is only one (relatively) safe way someone becomes a hero and that's when the coward has the fate of everyone thrust upon them and they pull through.

As for heavies, my most successful and deadly mech is an ON1-VA called "The Pain Train". Mogney can vouch that at times it will dominate, but it is an LRMboat and therefore it is subject to all the dangers that befall a specialized mechs like that (not to mention my skill and equipment). People complain about how 'easy' it is to be an LRM pilot and it is a safer, longer lived role that is subject to sudden death at ignoble hands. On the other hand, it is very hard to be a GOOD LRM pilot and not some 'noobtoob spammer' that wastes thousands of missiles for little effect. It also teaches you the game in a macro scale helping you with the oh so critical ''situational awareness" many pilots do not have.

As for being in Europe, I encourage you against to check out my unit. We're rapidly building the "Greenwich Mean Time" areas with British, South African, Norweigian, German pilots and even one pilot in Turkey. I'm sure Joe Decker, captain of the Trinity here at the Seraphim would "Loff!" to hear more of his native accent & tongue.

[Kjudoon]

DeadDefiance, on 14 July 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I feel your pain about not having a good enough computer to run the game with acceptable FPS

Also, are there any guides made for map awareness? I have watched dozens, if not hundreds of guides on different builds, but I think a guide on the finer points of positioning, map awareness, and when to push would be really helpful!

Amen brother on the low FPS. Ugh. Mine runs between 5-15 most games. 20 if I am lucky.

Situational Awareness tutorials? None that I know of. You have to start watching your minimap more, gain experience over how people play the game, common strategies et all and that takes a lot of matches. Also, the instant you get that sinking suspicion someone might flank you. Listen to it and move move MOVE! If you think you've been standing in one place too long, it's probably too late. Move move MOVE!

And lastly, do not be the pitbull determined to eat the pork chop. You've no idea how many times I've goaded LRMHatorz and other hyperfocused brawlers into traps because they see the nice juicy LRMboat and charged me. Meanwhile I have called in 1-3 other brawlers and ran back into our lines lines with heavier than normal back armor and bigger engine to pull this stunt off... and if you don't tear your eyes off the tantilizingly close and tasty kill... you're done for and don't know it, OR worse still, you cost your team the game by focusing too hard.

Edited by Kjudoon, 14 July 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Friedrich von Luckner]

Thanks again Kjudoon. Good advice there.

I manly was looking into the Harasser/Flanker role.....as that's what I am used to from other games. I will check out your Orion suggestion. This sounds interesting. Just like playing Arty in WoT...situational but potentially devastaning when utilised correctly Furthermore this role will hopefully teach me more patience.

I will check out your unit as well

Kjudoon, on 14 July 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

And lastly, do not be the pitbull determined to eat the pork chop. You've no idea how many times I've goaded LRMHatorz and other hyperfocused brawlers into traps because they see the nice juicy LRMboat and charged me. Meanwhile I have called in 1-3 other brawlers and ran back into our lines lines with heavier than normal back armor and bigger engine to pull this stunt off... and if you don't tear your eyes off the tantilizingly close and tasty kill... you're done for and don't know it, OR worse still, you cost your team the game by focusing too hard.

You have been watching my games

[Kjudoon]

If you liked playing Arty, you will LOVE playing an Indirect Fire support mech,

Just remember if you want to flank or harrass... you're almost always moving. Even if you're just 'rocking in place' back and forth and shooting at targets 600m out. This stuff saves your life.

Never be charitable giving away your life and I hope to see your application with us at the Seraphim!

Full Disclosure, I'm Captain of our Kherubim Garrison for casual players in the Seraphim. It's my job to help new guys get training and maybe into competative gaming when they're ready.

[ZachMan119]

Friedrich von Luckner, on 14 July 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

You have been watching my games

LOL!

[Koniving]

Friedrich von Luckner, on 14 July 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Greetings fellow Mechwarriors.

My main problem seems to be survivability.

Any pointers or critical remarks would be very welcome at this point.

Edit for Engrish.

The key to what makes a Hunchback -- even with its hunch -- more survivable is an armor trick on the right side of 46 front, 2 rear. This is due to an excessively oversized hitbox. I'm using this as a reference to a very similar mech that unfortunately has a lower armor maximum but happens to allow for stronger armor concentrations despite its reputation.

Your Shadowhawk design from what is shown has 35 armor front, 17 back. And while your backside is minisculely larger than a Hunchback's, you have massive armor there and almost comparatively low armor on your front. My 35 ton mechs have better front armor.

The main issue with an XL engine Shadowhawk sporting 35 points of armor is it's gone in a single shot. Twin PPCs + a Gauss rifle and it's gone. Or a banshee twin PPCs and 3 AC/5s. Bam, gone, you're screwed. The armor is gone and you have to face the enemy with this weakness. That's no good, not good at all.

I find the optimum side armors for a Shadowhawk are 41 front, 11 rear. I tend to bleed more toward the front with long range builds, but even with brawling rigs I won't go higher than 12 for a rear side torso. Now the Rear CT is a whooooooole different story! It's huge where the rear STs are skinny but long nubs. Meanwhile the Shadowhawk's front CT is skinny too, so all the abuse is mostly side torsos. Especially with the proper etiquette of twisting to spread damage.

It won't take the direct abuse that my Hunchback can, but Shadowhawks are better when it comes to spreading the damage.

Edited by Koniving, 14 July 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[luxebo]

DeadDefiance, on 14 July 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also, are there any guides made for map awareness? I have watched dozens, if not hundreds of guides on different builds, but I think a guide on the finer points of positioning, map awareness, and when to push would be really helpful!

Smurfy's map guide area is helpful, as is 627's map guide. http://mwomercs.com/...-tactical-view/