105 replies to this topic

[Shadewolfe]

Goose, on 23 July 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Did I miss something about this guy paying for an OS?

Also, no I never did factor in OS. But that's gonna be taken care of by somebody else so no worries there

[Shadewolfe]

I'm still just not sure. You say they're all the same but others say they aren't. I want something that will work. I don't want to have to go back out and spend MORE money just to get the rig to run. I don't understand why building a computer has to be so darn complicated.

[DocBach]

I would say that there are a lot of builds in here that meet your criteria, one with the i5 4760 is going to be the best bang. You could do an AMD build for $600 that has more cores and the like and maybe be able to edge your GPU to a GTX760 or a R9 280 but single core performance for AMD systems gets smoked by Intel chips.

I personally like these two;

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 23 July 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($93.39 @ Newegg)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Superclocked Video Card ($139.99 @ Micro Center)
Case: Rosewill RANGER-M MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($29.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $601.33
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 17:04 EDT-0400

instead of a separate wifi card, use the money towards a better motherboard with wifi built in.

Goose, on 23 July 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-E33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-2000 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba Product Series:DT01ACA 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon R7 260X 2GB Video Card ($105.38 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Cooler Master Elite Power 460W ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $542.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 13:24 EDT-0400

Base Total: $576.91
Mail-in Rebates: -$40.00
Shipping: $5.39
Total: $542.30

Pros of the first one:
- better motherboard; it has a better chipset and the wifi is built in but it does not have any room for expandability -- it's a mini-ITX board -- however its small and compact for the case
- I like the Roswill Line-M case, I used one for a build and everything fits pretty well inside it despite it being a micro ATX case. Air flow is simple, intake through the front, exhaust out the rear and it doesn't look cheap or gaudy like most $30 cases.
- I like Nvidia products more than AMD, I have had problems with poor AMD driver support with the 7970M and it sort of left me sour on them
- It has more RAM

Cons
- Its more expensive
- It doesn't have the expandability of a full size motherboard/case

Pros of the second
- It comes in well below your budget
- It has it has an after market cooler
- some benchmarks have the R7 260X being quicker in some games than the 750ti (however some benchmarks show better performance in different games for the Nvidia card)
- It has an optical drive which makes installing your OS easier if you don't have the ability to install by USB

Cons
- It also has a small motherboard which will limit future expansion
- the intel chips are pretty cool running and the funds added heat sink could probably be used to upgrade something else in the build
- the Toshiba has a smaller cache than the seagate, but has less occurrence of failure according to charts on the internet

Edited by DocBach, 23 July 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Goose]

Yes: There are lots of little details that are cheaper to get right the first time then fix later.

Yes: There can be physical issues with heat sinks fitting in cases, or the graphics cards, et al: This is why I go with models that have reviews.

No: I don't know there won't be an issue between the CPU heatsink and the RAM, brought about by the motherboard. :-|

Jedi's point about the graphics card, however it was written, is basically true: Bigger is better. I picked that 260X 'cause you seemed to think a 750Ti was about the right level of performance.

Understand a bigger card might need a bigger power supply.

Edited by Goose, 23 July 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

There are a lot of companies and a lot of options. Like i said before everything will work fine. The more money you spend the more speed you will get. The trick is spending the least money for the most speed. I would agree with the other if you can stay away from the cpu you started with it would be the best. Its going to be harder to upgrade later on. The fx or i5 is a better way to go. But the 760k will play you games just fine.

Video card you're talking about 10-25% deference in speed. Not the end of the world. But if you can get the 25% for same price why not?

Cases doesnt matter
ram doesnt matter to much
powersupply with good reviews


Its not to bad man

[DocBach]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($149.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 280 3GB DirectCU II Video Card ($219.00 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake VL80001W2Z ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $626.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 19:52 EDT-0400

Here is an AMD setup - it has a better GPU and is close to your budget, but the CPU performance of the Intel chips is going to be better. And if it was last week you could have gotten the 8350 over the 8320 for nearly the same price but they went back to being almost as expensive as intel chips.

[Shadewolfe]

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

I would say that there are a lot of builds in here that meet your criteria, one with the i5 4760 is going to be the best bang. You could do an AMD build for $600 that has more cores and the like and maybe be able to edge your GPU to a GTX760 or a R9 280 but single core performance for AMD systems gets smoked by Intel chips.

I personally like these two;







Pros of the first one:
- better motherboard; it has a better chipset and the wifi is built in but it does not have any room for expandability -- it's a mini-ITX board -- however its small and compact for the case
- I like the Roswill Line-M case, I used one for a build and everything fits pretty well inside it despite it being a micro ATX case. Air flow is simple, intake through the front, exhaust out the rear and it doesn't look cheap or gaudy like most $30 cases.
- I like Nvidia products more than AMD, I have had problems with poor AMD driver support with the 7970M and it sort of left me sour on them
- It has more RAM

Cons
- Its more expensive
- It doesn't have the expandability of a full size motherboard/case

Pros of the second
- It comes in well below your budget
- It has it has an after market cooler
- some benchmarks have the R7 260X being quicker in some games than the 750ti (however some benchmarks show better performance in different games for the Nvidia card)
- It has an optical drive which makes installing your OS easier if you don't have the ability to install by USB

Cons
- It also has a small motherboard which will limit future expansion
- the intel chips are pretty cool running and the funds added heat sink could probably be used to upgrade something else in the build
- the Toshiba has a smaller cache than the seagate, but has less occurrence of failure according to charts on the internet

This post was EXTREMELY helpful (No insult to anyone else, he just outlined it in a very easy way to read for somebody who doesn't really know what to do)
I'm leaning towards the second build at the moment, but if I was to remove the heatsink and upgrade something else what would you recommend I upgrade on that build?

Monkey Lover, on 23 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

There are a lot of companies and a lot of options. Like i said before everything will work fine. The more money you spend the more speed you will get. The trick is spending the least money for the most speed. I would agree with the other if you can stay away from the cpu you started with it would be the best. Its going to be harder to upgrade later on. The fx or i5 is a better way to go. But the 760k will play you games just fine.

Video card you're talking about 10-25% deference in speed. Not the end of the world. But if you can get the 25% for same price why not?

Cases doesnt matter
ram doesnt matter to much
powersupply with good reviews


Its not to bad man

I guess. It's just alot to take in when you're new to this, and I just want to make sure I make the right decision. For an 18 living by himself, $600 or so is quite a bit of an investment and if it went to waste well.. Yeah.

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($149.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 280 3GB DirectCU II Video Card ($219.00 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake VL80001W2Z ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: EVGA 600B 600W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $626.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 19:52 EDT-0400

Here is an AMD setup - it has a better GPU and is close to your budget, but the CPU performance of the Intel chips is going to be better. And if it was last week you could have gotten the 8350 over the 8320 for nearly the same price but they went back to being almost as expensive as intel chips.

And what would be the benefit of using an AMD setup? I see that the 8320 has 8 cores over the i5's 4, but I'm assuming the per-core performance of the i5 is better as said before.

Edited by Darkwolfe, 23 July 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[Goose]

Here:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-E33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-2000 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba Product Series:DT01ACA 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $596.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 19:55 EDT-0400

Base Total: $621.91
Mail-in Rebates: -$25.00
Total: $596.91

Spent all the monies upgrading the graphics card.

Kept the aftermarket cooler, as the factory ones aren't all that; Could'a used a smaller one, but this one is on sale.

Note the PSU change: This is a better one, and is needed for the bigger graphics card (40A@12V, needed 36.6A)

http://www.tomshardw...iew,3107-3.html

Edited by Goose, 23 July 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[DocBach]

probably a full sized motherboard to expand on later like to add a second GPU in crossfire or SLI; maybe upgrade to 8GB of RAM. my biggest problem with both of those builds were they both use small motherboards that limit expandability. I would probably still drop the extra cooler and keep the stock heat sink since you will be unable to OC the CPU and Intel processors are pretty heat stable to upgrade the motherboard, and I like the change to the 270X.

Edited by DocBach, 23 July 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Shadewolfe]

Goose, on 23 July 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Here:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-E33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-2000 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba Product Series:DT01ACA 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($52.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $596.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 19:55 EDT-0400

Base Total: $621.91
Mail-in Rebates: -$25.00
Total: $596.91

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

probably a full sized motherboard to expand on later like to add a second GPU in crossfire or SLI; maybe upgrade to 8GB of RAM.

or a better GPU like he just did

And accidentally left the Heatsink there
-Edit- Nevermind I see what he did. He took the spare $60 of the build and put it in the GPU

Now would it have been better to upgrade to a fullsized motherboard for later upgrades, or the GPU like Goose did already?

Edited by Darkwolfe, 23 July 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[DocBach]

looking at the price differences in motherboards, the build he just listed is probably the best bang for the buck, but I might get a single 4GB of RAM stick instead of two 2x2s; you will lose the advantage of dual channel but it will let you easily add a second stick later on when you have more money.

[Shadewolfe]

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

looking at the price differences in motherboards, the build he just listed is probably the best bang for the buck, but I might get a single 4GB of RAM stick instead of two 2x2s; you will lose the advantage of dual channel but it will let you easily add a second stick later on when you have more money.

Somebody told me that Windows runs better on dual matching sticks of Ram. Is this true?

[DocBach]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($93.39 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill RANGER-M MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($29.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $602.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 20:10 EDT-0400

Since the other motherboard was a micro ATX I went with a micro ATX case to save $10 - the air flow works just fine and you don't have too many components that will get super hot anyways. The GPU is a great value, and so is the CPU. I went with the Corsair PSU over the EVGA for the sole reason it was 80+ bronze over just 80+, and the single stick of RAM can be doubled when you save up $40, and if you want to add an after market heat sink you can easily do so when you save up $20 -- its much harder to save up $90+ for a better Motherboard, and a lot easier to put a new heat sink on than pull every component out to put in said motherboard. So this is sort of a combination of the two builds I liked most. If you are a broke 18 year old who probably won't be adding a second GPU anytime soon, this is probably the best deal, and its got the wifi you need. You lose like 4-7% speed single channel vs dual channel RAM.


http://www.gamersnex...Page-3?showall=

pretty much, nowhere noticeable in speed difference to human comprehension of time.

Edited by DocBach, 23 July 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[Shadewolfe]

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($93.39 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill RANGER-M MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($29.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $602.31
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 20:10 EDT-0400

sort of a combination of the two. If you are a broke 18 year old who probably won't be adding a second GPU anytime soon, this is probably the best deal, and its got the wifi you need. You lose like 4-7% speed single channel vs dual channel RAM.

http://www.gamersnex...Page-3?showall=

pretty much, nowhere noticeable in speed difference to human comprehension of time.

Wifi wise I'e decided to just get an ethernet cable and hardwire it.

And so you're saying that a single stick of ram really doesn't make that big of a difference then?

[Goose]

Much better: Having only a single channel halves the data rate of that major system. There's a page at Tom's where they got to point and laugh at how much damage that did to a system's performance.

I'm a big fan of the tower cooler format, and "hold it is through any such cooling improvement you get your CPU to use it's "Turbo Clocks" way moar often."

[Shadewolfe]

Well.. I have no issues having to go out and get two sticks of large ram later. Not a huge issue to me.

So I guess that puts us between either http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tGVPQ7 , or http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ydgyt6 . As I just said above, the second one is gonna end up using the same RAM setup as the first one if I go with it.

-edit- Also like I said earlier on this thread, I don't plan on overclocking anything. So again I'm wondering if the heatsink is really necessary

Edited by Darkwolfe, 23 July 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[DocBach]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-E33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($72.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 270X 2GB Dual-X Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill RANGER-M MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($29.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $606.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-07-23 20:20 EDT-0400

If you are going to be using ethernet then the budget motherboard will do just fine since the CPU is incapable of overclocking. You could add the second RAM, and a CPU cooler and stay within the budget (roughly)


Like Goose said, when a CPU heats up it will throttle its performance to try to cool itself off. The added heat sink will give it more endurance than the stock, and the coolermaster 212 series is largely regarded as one of the best coolers for the price.

Edited by DocBach, 23 July 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[Shadewolfe]

So heat sinks are definitely helpful then. That last build looks like the one I might decide to go with. unless there's something else I need to know about that will change everything. How much do you think will be added with a 7% tax?

Edited by Darkwolfe, 23 July 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[DocBach]

if you order from newegg a lot of those items will be tax free as they only charge tax for California, Indiana, New Jersey and Tennessee

Edited by DocBach, 23 July 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Shadewolfe]

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

if you order from newegg a lot of those items will be tax free as they only charge tax for California, Indiana, New Jersey and Tennessee

I had planned on going with newegg. That sounds good to me. The performance on this rig that you guys have put together for me.. What sort of games at what settings do you think it could run?