170 replies to this topic

[CoffiNail]

I agree that the LRMs always look large. Science fiction... I do have to admit that the timber wolf is a fan depiction. A good one, but cannot be taken as canon depiction. That Mad Dog though. Clan scientists and technicians must play a lot of Tetris in their off time to keep so skilled at packing stuff away.

[Strum Wealh]

Well, there are the official cutaways...

Vulture


Mad Cat


The Vulture blueprint claims a 120mm (~4.73") diameter for its LRMs (the same as the bore for the Marauder's GM Whirlwind AC/5... and the same as the bore of the M256 gun used by the Abrams MBT), while the Mad Cat blueprint claims a 200mm (~7.87") diameter for its LRMs (larger than the shells of the Demolisher's 185mm ChemJet Gun AC/20s... and substantially larger than both the Hellfire missile (178mm) and the AMRAAM (180mm)).

Yet, these 120mm & 200mm missiles are supposed to still weigh a mere ~8.33kg (the same as the Catapult's 75mm LRMs; for comparison, the 178mm Hellfire weighs 45-49 kg & the 70mm Redeye weighs 8.3 kg), and the Vulture Prime is supposed to be able to accommodate 240 of these 120mm missiles (two tons of ammo, one ton in each side-torso with a launcher) and some sort of drive system to feed them to the launcher, while the Mad Cat Prime must accommodate 240 of these 200mm missiles (two tons of ammo, one ton in each side-torso with a launcher) and some sort of drive system to feed them to the launcher.
Yet, neither cutaway labels - or provides any accommodation for - an ammunition bin in the side-torso, much less one big enough to hold the required number of missiles.

Clearly, the Clans are utilizing a relatively primitive & limited form of transcedental engineering to create dimensionally-transcedental ammo bins...!?

[Valkyrie Vewas]

This model please just Do this lol


Oh and just for fun

Edited by Valkyrie Vewas, 30 July 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Valkyrie Vewas]

Hitboxes could be really good if u make part of side middle as part of torsos. makes CT really hard to hit from sides (sides easy to hit from side)

[Keeshu]

@ Strum
I've never seen those blueprints before. I'll have fun nerding out on that later (not looking at it now since I'm going to sleep after this post).


@ Valkyrie
The first picture is pretty close to the classic Mad Dog, and I've seen that picture a bazillion times, it's nice.
The second picture looks like another Battletech mech that I forgot the name of.... Which sucks because I want to compare them visually right now. While it is an interesting design. Though it kinda looks like it's running 2 PPCs, 2 Small lasers or something. Where's the LRMs? Or just the Side Torsos in general? They are almost non-existant.

Gotta love Stalker style Torsos, and I'm really hoping it gets those types of torsos as well.

[SVK Puskin]

So the 360 degrees torso rotation from MW4 is fiction?

[SVK Puskin]

Keeshu, on 29 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I'll be honest, I have a hard time imagining how hundreds/thousands of missiles fit into any mech, doesn't matter how bulky/huge it is (much less how they move through the mech believably).

And did you realized that in game you are able to place ammo in every part except Clan Mechs? It is really strange how would you reload torso and arm mounted weapons if you would have ammo stored in legs. I think they should reconsider this fact becuase this has nothing to do with simulation.

Edited by ENS Puskin, 31 July 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[CyclonerM]

ENS Puskin, on 30 July 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

And did you realized that in game you are able to place ammo in every part execpt Clan Mechs? It is really strange how would you reload torso and arm mounted weapons if you would have ammo stored in legs. I think they should reconsider this fact becuase this has nothing to do with simulation.

Space magic has his place even in BT.. I believe the P&P game had even more free placement of items in your 'Mechs But in exchange it was much more costly and difficult to customize them..

[Strum Wealh]

ENS Puskin, on 30 July 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

So the 360 degrees torso rotation from MW4 is fiction?

It's all fiction...

However, to answer the question: the most any 'Mech could torso-twist was two hex-sides to either side (for a maximum of 120 to 165 degrees to either side) with the Extended Torso Twist Design Quirk from Strategic Operations; otherwise, 'Mechs were limited to torso-twisting one hex-side to either side (for a maximum of 60 to 90 degrees to either side) or being wholly incapable of doing so (with the No Torso Twist Design Quirk from Strategic Operations).

[Ryoken]

Valkyrie Vewas, on 23 July 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

This MadDog PLEASE

The upper picture on the cover of a novel in our book store was the point of no return that finaly pushed me into battletech.
So I hope Alex will do his magic on this iconic mech without loosing it's great look!

[Pariah Devalis]

I would be interested to see if they depart from the classic art and give it missile bay doors, like the Catapult or the Stalker or the Centurion. That passive 10% armor buff when bays are closed might be too good, though.

[Keeshu]

ENS Puskin, on 30 July 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

And did you realized that in game you are able to place ammo in every part execpt Clan Mechs? It is really strange how would you reload torso and arm mounted weapons if you would have ammo stored in legs. I think they should reconsider this fact becuase this has nothing to do with simulation.

Yeah it is a little strange, but no too strange. Afterall all there are quite a few mechs that have absurdely huge legs which makes it easy to imagine that they could store a bunch of ammo in them. There are stranger ammo placements for some vehicles in real life, I just forget which vehicles they are.
The strangest ammo placement is in the head. Hello one ton of explosive ammo just a few feet away from me! If I fail in a fight, that surely won't blow up and kill me.

ENS Puskin, on 30 July 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

So the 360 degrees torso rotation from MW4 is fiction?

I just went in to compare the Vulture's Torso rotation to the Atlas in MW4 Black Knight. going from look to the right, to looking to the left, the Atlas takes about 4 seconds to do that, the Vulture takes about 5 seconds to do so (Timber Wolf is about 4 seconds, and the Osiris is about 3 if you were curious too).
My point being is, if you were able to do a 360 rotation, would you be fine with turning slower than an Atlas?

Strum Wealh, on 31 July 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

It's all fiction...

However, to answer the question: the most any 'Mech could torso-twist was two hex-sides to either side (for a maximum of 120 to 165 degrees to either side) with the Extended Torso Twist Design Quirk from Strategic Operations; otherwise, 'Mechs were limited to torso-twisting one hex-side to either side (for a maximum of 60 to 90 degrees to either side) or being wholly incapable of doing so (with the No Torso Twist Design Quirk from Strategic Operations).

This has been driving me nuts for quite a while. Is there a list of mechs that have extended torso twist somewhere?

I'd rather not look through the 500+ mechs to look at which ones have certain quirks all the time. I also don't know if some mechs have a quirk, but their mech page doesn't say it for some reason (since the majority of mech pages do not have design quirks on them).


@ Ryoken
That bottom mech almost looks like something from MWO anyways. I love it, and it makes me feel better about the classic's chances in MWO.

Pariah Devalis, on 31 July 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

I would be interested to see if they depart from the classic art and give it missile bay doors, like the Catapult or the Stalker or the Centurion. That passive 10% armor buff when bays are closed might be too good, though.

Missle bay doors would be very interesting on the Mad Dog. We'll have to see what the shoulders look like. How wide/long will they be, and will they go with the original 1 flat part or break it up into 2 angles like the CCG pictures?
At this point in time, I have no strong feelings one way or the other on missle bay doors on the Mad Dog. I blame my bias for the Catapult for that one, it is my favorite MWO IS design right now.

[dragnier1]

Looking at those pictures makes me wonder if the mad dog will suffer from arty...the older games didn't have arty (i think) so i never thought of that.

[Strum Wealh]

Keeshu, on 31 July 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

This has been driving me nuts for quite a while. Is there a list of mechs that have extended torso twist somewhere?

I'd rather not look through the 500+ mechs to look at which ones have certain quirks all the time. I also don't know if some mechs have a quirk, but their mech page doesn't say it for some reason (since the majority of mech pages do not have design quirks on them).

There is a list on pages 85-88 of the 3025-3050 Faction Assignment & Rarity Tables document (v9.02 available as a PDF HERE).

There are no 'Mechs known or thought to possess the Extended Torso Twist quirk.

Several 'Mechs are known or thought to possess the No Torso Twist quirk:

• Adder (Puma),
  
• Black Hawk (Nova),
  
• Bushwacker,
  
• Cicada,
  
• Firefly,
  
• Hermes,
  
• Hermes II,
  
• Hoplite,
  
• Hornet,
  
• JagerMech,
  
• Jenner,
  
• King Crab,
  
• Kit Fox (Uller),
  
• Mauler,
  
• Mercury,
  
• Sentinel,
  
• Thug,
  
• Vindicator,
  
• Viper (Dragonfly)

Of those, the Bushwacker and Jenner are confirmed in canonical materials (e.g. BT rulebooks & sourcebooks) as being unable to torso-twist.

However, PGI has seen fit to give 'Mechs that cannot normally torso-twist as a function of their canonical aesthetic design (e.g. the Jenner, Cicada, Adder/Puma, Kit Fox/Uller, Locust, etc) the ability to do so.
Moreover, the torso-twist ranges of several MWO 'Mechs (notably, the Hunchbacks, Catapults, and Locusts) is such that they would fall into the ranges expected of the BT Extended Torso Twist quirk.

[Keeshu]

dragnier1, on 31 July 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Looking at those pictures makes me wonder if the mad dog will suffer from arty...the older games didn't have arty (i think) so i never thought of that.

Personally I think it's BS that someone can get cockpited from the arty as they are rather random, unlike skilled cockpit "headshots". I never place down arty strikes because I find it to be a bit dishonorable, and because I try to get all the cbills i can get from each match. Though I will say, it's funny to see someone running a cheese build getting cockpited from an Arty.

Mechwarrior 4 technically had an Artillery Strike, but I haven't used it much just yet since I tend to stay away from MW4, and when I do play it I usually use whatever is available that's a normal weapon. I only used it on one dropship mission (they even suggest you use it during the mission briefing), if I remember right it takes at least 3 seconds for it to go off and it has very very little ammo, so I wasn't impressed by it. The arty seemed to just attack from the ground instead of falling from the sky as well.


Personally I don't get hit by arty that much as I like to move around a lot even when behind cover, and I haven't been cockpitted by arty just yet (but then again it could have been the mechs I've been piloting). I don't know how much of a problem it is for mechs that have cockpits on top though. This is more of an issue with artys than the Mad Dog imo though.
Though yeah, Mad Dog would be more vulnerable to Artys because it's cockpit is just on the top, like the Summoner, Stalker, and a few other mechs.


@Strum Wealh
Thanks once again, you always seem to have information about everything.

[SVK Puskin]

Keeshu, on 31 July 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Yeah it is a little strange, but no too strange. Afterall all there are quite a few mechs that have absurdely huge legs which makes it easy to imagine that they could store a bunch of ammo in them.

Yes some Mechs has really bulky leggs but there is not enough space for transporting ammo from leggs to torso or arms becuase of actuators and other mechanics which are for movement. That is simply not possible becuase the middle section where leggs and torso are attached is very small and again there are other mechanics.

[Odanan]

I always thought the Mad Dog resembles a lot with a bull terrier. (look the nose)

[Keeshu]

Odanan, on 31 July 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

I always thought the Mad Dog resembles a lot with a bull terrier. (look the nose)

Doesn't look as much of a bull terrier as the Blue Flame at least.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blue_Flame



Mad Dog isn't thick enough to make it resemble a Bull Terrier imo though, unless you're looking at some thicker versions like the MW4 model.

[greytiger]

Strum Wealh, on 30 July 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Clearly, the Clans are utilizing a relatively primitive & limited form of transcedental engineering to create dimensionally-transcedental ammo bins...!?

"it's bigger on the inside... "

Must be using Timelord science.

[Strum Wealh]

greytiger, on 31 July 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

"it's bigger on the inside... "

Must be using Timelord science.

Though, the Clans (doubly so for the Crusaders) are, IMO, really more like the Daleks (who had also developed transcedental engineering) than the Time Lords...

"During the Thousand Year War, the Kaleds [the ancestors of the Daleks] lived under a totalitarian government in which the military was very powerful."
"The Daleks soon came to view themselves as the supreme race in the universe and began a conquest of universal domination and extermination."