117 replies to this topic

[Bigbacon]

so your nephew was good a COD but like any other game out there, you can't fix it for the casual player no matter what you try. Even in COD, BF, etc you still have to learn something in order to play it. It may not be as complex as this but you can't just hop into those other games once a week and expect to be good at it.

Even if that was the case, you'd still end up playing people who have more time than yourself and they will be better regardless of weapon choices and balancing put into the game.

that is the reality, casual play means you will be at a disadvantage vs others who play more often. Thats how it works in games in general, and I don't mean just computer games.

Point should be, if you can find your little niche to enjoy the game for the limited time you can play it, then you can have fun no matter what. Best thing in this game is you can always do that. Make silly mech builds and play with them. Go against the norm.

In the end you enjoy yourself or you don't and that isn't necessarily the games fault.

Edited by Bigbacon, 24 July 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[Kjudoon]

If you really want a proposal on how to make this game good/open to players of all skill levels, both elite and new / obsessive and casual here's one that I had been noodling for a while. The problem is it's not very lore, but it's rides the ragged edge of it.

Command Consoles and targetting computers can be toggled on/of for players and will use guidance for all weapons.

That means all you as a player have to do is press R, bring the cursor in line with the target and hit fire. Your guns will shoot at the target with a degree of accuracy that you may or may not have yourself. They would probably hit as much or as well as the turrets. With the advent of the clan's targetting computers, you could get better targeting for more weight. the downside is that they can be jammed by ECM just like LRMs and streaks and will not fire without an "R lock"... not an LRM lock, so no dumb firing of weapons.

This would be a toggled effect available in any mech (which would make it non lore) or you attach it to the command console/targeting computer (which you allow placement in any mech taking up the head slot and tonnage).

Now if you are an elite player, you can toggle this off, or just not install it in your computer. You get two distinct advantages over this approach: to dumbfire through ECM and out of sensor range, and precision shooting which would be the same as what you do today anyway.

If a solution like this was implemented, you give a sop to the casual player who's never going to be as good as the top tier computer, 35 hours a week, 14 year old on ritalin and red bull videogamer a chance to seriously compete. It adds a new strategic element to the game because ECM becomes even more powerful (yes, me, an LRMboater proposed this) and ends a lot of targetting issues that exist in the game because we don't really see what the computer sees.

Will this system make a player a top tier gamer? Pffft! NO! Will they see more satisfying results in the terms of game participation without total devotion? Absolutely! Can someone basically shut off the tryhard level of play doing this and just casually blow up stompy mechs for a while? You bet (as long as you then work on your more strategic/intelligence based skills like map awareness, tactical advantage and situational awareness).

So that's a proposal for actually balancing this without taking away from either side, in non-competitive play. Put these 'enhanced targetting computers' into a tourney, and you're gonna get hammered by real pros but till then, you have a shot. This is a preliminary idea which could use serious modification I suspect, but there it is.

[Bigbacon]

so to fix a game, you want to implement auto aim?

[DivineEvil]

There's no such thing as elite players. It's always a question of how much time you put into something, whether it's a game, skill, creation or knowledge.

Do not ever demand someone to stand for your lower standards. We already have so much casuality compared to games of the past. Whether games is casual or competetive is up to developers to decide. Hop into HAWKEN, then you'd realize MWO not nearly as twitch-skill based.

Clan Mechs are just by definition a tool for more skilled players to use. This is how PGI stood upon with a balance perspective, since they would be plainly overpowered otherwise. Anyone who's now using LRMs and Lasers on them are people, who's been expecting them to be just that, and now they cannot adjust.

[Kjudoon]

Bigbacon, on 24 July 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

so to fix a game, you want to implement auto aim?

With a toggle, yes. Game becomes open to far more casual players who will spend money on it. Win/win.

[o0Marduk0o]

About what game you are talking, where lasers are more difficult to use than pin-point weapons?

EDIT: @guyaboveme: Are you on drugs?

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 24 July 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[juxstapo]

Honestly, the more I study it, the more I realize this thread is a wonderful way to ease the path for new players and perfectly illustrates how to help them into a deeper enjoyment of the game, so everyone Please continue.

Ever notice how italicizing something in this slightly newer-fangledy forum code causes the cursor to portal back to the italicized word if you backspace? Not just here either, any (d'oh!) forum using this framework does it. I miss quickly accessible brackets for formatting.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

EDIT: @guyaboveme: Are you on drugs?

Of course not. How can you not see this would be a win/win?

[DEMAX51]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Of course not. How can you not see this would be a win/win?

Auto-aim is a terrible idea in a PVP competitive game.

What the game needs to cater to casuals is a PVE mode, where they won't feel outclassed.

[Satan n stuff]

DEMAX51, on 24 July 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Auto-aim is a terrible idea in a PVP competitive game.

What the game needs to cater to casuals is a PVE mode, where they won't feel outclassed.

Clearly you haven't been playing the right PVE modes.

[Kjudoon]

DEMAX51, on 24 July 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Auto-aim is a terrible idea in a PVP competitive game.

What the game needs to cater to casuals is a PVE mode, where they won't feel outclassed.

Agreed. It's why I play DCUO, other than it being an awesome PvE game despite their nickle and diming you for content.

In lieu of PvE on MWO (since this isn't even in the design pipeline), a toggle-able auto-aim function will be a great leveler. If you're too good for auto aim, turn it off, Buck Rodgers. Turn it off and excel. For those who don't, leave it on and do moderately well.

The better you are, the less you need, and as proven through the ability to deal with 'no skill lrms' they should have no problems when dealing with auto-aimers.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 July 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[HighTest]

Hey -- what the game really needs is actual 3050-spec pilot neuro-helmets! That way, you could just think about what to target and where to aim and all that stuff, and it would just happen! No one could QQ about input mechanics or hit registration or anything since it would all have come straight from their own brains!

Plus think of all the revenue from the hardware sales the devs could make!

Wow, now THIS is the true answer for all things MWO!

</sarcasm>

On a serious note, if you took all player skill out of MWO, all you'd be left with is tactics. Hey, wait! MW Tactics already exists. Problem solved.

[Kjudoon]

HighTest, on 24 July 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Hey -- what the game really needs is actual 3050-spec pilot neuro-helmets! That way, you could just think about what to target and where to aim and all that stuff, and it would just happen! No one could QQ about input mechanics or hit registration or anything since it would all have come straight from their own brains!

Plus think of all the revenue from the hardware sales the devs could make!

Wow, now THIS is the true answer for all things MWO!

</sarcasm>

On a serious note, if you took all player skill out of MWO, all you'd be left with is tactics. Hey, wait! MW Tactics already exists. Problem solved.

Game's still in early beta if that and development has stopped last I heard.

For a more complete TT emulator, play Megamek.

That said, this game needs more simulator and less Mech of Doody.

[HighTest]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Game's still in early beta if that and development has stopped last I heard.

For a more complete TT emulator, play Megamek.

That said, this game needs more simulator and less Mech of Doody.

I wasn't aware of the state of Tactics -- but that does explain a few things.

Yes - Megamek would also do the job quite nicely!

I can't disagree with the more simulator comment. This game could go a long way if the devs can achieve some of their early vision with CW and such...

[LiGhtningFF13]

I like the term "elite player". What does it mean?! How can you become such a player and how does he/she affect the match?!
In my opinion it's not about a specific player here in this game it's about team spirit no the most important part is communication during a fight. Paths, prime targets and so on!

[Bigbacon]

HighTest, on 24 July 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

I wasn't aware of the state of Tactics -- but that does explain a few things.

Yes - Megamek would also do the job quite nicely!

I can't disagree with the more simulator comment. This game could go a long way if the devs can achieve some of their early vision with CW and such...

more simulator means less players, less players means less money. Not that I wouldn't enjoy a sim with a nice big multifunction controller (think steel battalion) but this is very functional action game and while it has a learning curve, the curve isn't so great as too turn folks off right away.

it takes a certain type of person to really enjoy a simulator.

[Kjudoon]

Bigbacon, on 24 July 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

more simulator means less players, less players means less money. Not that I wouldn't enjoy a sim with a nice big multifunction controller (think steel battalion) but this is very functional action game and while it has a learning curve, the curve isn't so great as too turn folks off right away.

it takes a certain type of person to really enjoy a simulator.

That's assumptive that FPS=money. Maybe PGI knows something we don't... I don't know, but I think my compromise toggle auto-aim will go a long way to making the game easier to learn, and yet take nothing away from the all Pavlov team skill players who will just ignore it the same way they already ignore LRMs as a weapon of choice.

I think it's a great way to open this game up to more people, decrease the frustration level for new players and non-dedicated tryhards in lieu of a PvE environment that PGI has no intention at this time of even considering doing.

How about this as well: place an elo cap on those players who have Auto-Aim engaged so they can't 'pollute' upper echelon Elo brackets and vice versa? It'd create a de facto tier system right there and then you further separate gameplay goals for those who just can't stand dealing with the other? Another potential compromise on this to keep purists on both sides happy.

Again, where is the 'lose' in this scenario? I only see win/win. You keep what you want (skill based power) others get what they want (aim assistance and more casual gameplay)? I really would love to hear the reasoned argument against doing this. not being sarcastic either.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 July 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

Again, where is the 'lose' in this scenario? I only see win/win. You keep what you want (skill based power) others get what they want (aim assistance and more casual gameplay)? I really would love to hear the reasoned argument against doing this. not being sarcastic either.

You use auto aim and everyone will call you a noob. The griefing will force the feature into the dark corner where not even 3PV is put into. With it being considered a noob tool, almost no one will want to use it, as they will be branded for it. Even if no one else knew, they would know, and many people will outright refuse to use such a feature either because they realize it removes their skill, or because they realize that using it is an admission of failure.

[Kjudoon]

IraqiWalker, on 24 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

You use auto aim and everyone will call you a noob. The griefing will force the feature into the dark corner where not even 3PV is put into. With it being considered a noob tool, almost no one will want to use it, as they will be branded for it. Even if no one else knew, they would know, and many people will outright refuse to use such a feature either because they realize it removes their skill, or because they realize that using it is an admission of failure.

I guess we won't be seeing LRMs in game anymore by this logic. Using them is a "sure sign you can't play". Come on, bro... you're better than to think that. Not even you are deriving your self worth from how Pavlovian you are in this game.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 July 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

I guess we won't be seeing LRMs in game anymore by this logic. Using them is a "sure sign you can't play". Come on, bro... you're better than to think that. Not even you are deriving your self worth from how Pavlovian you are in this game.

Not really. LRMs actually require some skill to utilize, and lots of skill to use right. While this feature eliminates any and all skill requirements.