39 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

I was bored with my Clan mechs so last night I jumped in to my favorite IS mechs to change it up. Unfortunately all my favorite IS mechs are jump capable heavy and assault class mechs so needless to say, last night was an exercise in frustration as all my mechs generally flopped around like a fish out of water rather than do any useful jumping.

However I also realized that might jump capable light and medium mechs did not seem much effected which was odd because supposedly the underlying problem with JJs was they were just too good across the board so why weren't lights and mediums hit hard too?

Then it dawned on me, it wasn't that JJs were too good, rather it was because Jump Jet capable heavy and assault mechs were popular and it just so happens that currently the community is up in arms about how so few lights and medium mechs were being used.

In case you missed where I am going with this. Basically PGI nerfed the crap out of Jump capable heavy and assaults in order to try to "convince" more people to play lights and mediums.

Honestly it is the only thing that makes sense because in the entire time I have been on these forums, not one every complained that 5 JJs on a heavy or assault mech gave them too much mobility. In fact the only complaints about 5 JJs on any mech were that they didn't provide ENOUGH mobility.

Anyway, looks like another typical example of PGI mentality. The "Break something to fix something else" school of balancing.

[Alistair Winter]

I don't think so. Have you tried playing a light mech with JJs after the patch? It's a bit like this:

[Blood Rose]

I like my JJs on my Jenner, but I would rather that they blasted me at a 45 degree angle straight ahead.

[Tyman4]

Any hope of being highly manueverable mini-aerospace fights has been dashed. Though the spider can still make a go of it.

Tyman

[Sprouticus]

Viktor Drake, on 25 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

I was bored with my Clan mechs so last night I jumped in to my favorite IS mechs to change it up. Unfortunately all my favorite IS mechs are jump capable heavy and assault class mechs so needless to say, last night was an exercise in frustration as all my mechs generally flopped around like a fish out of water rather than do any useful jumping.

However I also realized that might jump capable light and medium mechs did not seem much effected which was odd because supposedly the underlying problem with JJs was they were just too good across the board so why weren't lights and mediums hit hard too?

Then it dawned on me, it wasn't that JJs were too good, rather it was because Jump Jet capable heavy and assault mechs were popular and it just so happens that currently the community is up in arms about how so few lights and medium mechs were being used.

In case you missed where I am going with this. Basically PGI nerfed the crap out of Jump capable heavy and assaults in order to try to "convince" more people to play lights and mediums.

Honestly it is the only thing that makes sense because in the entire time I have been on these forums, not one every complained that 5 JJs on a heavy or assault mech gave them too much mobility. In fact the only complaints about 5 JJs on any mech were that they didn't provide ENOUGH mobility.

Anyway, looks like another typical example of PGI mentality. The "Break something to fix something else" school of balancing.

JJ's are not broken. I used to use them as a tool to enhance mobility. I can still do that. Not broken.

I do however agree that the JJ changes was a nerf primarily intended for heavies and assaults. Poptarts in particular. And the Timberwolf especially. In that regard it was effective.

Edited by Sprouticus, 25 July 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

Sprouticus, on 25 July 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

JJ's are not broken. I used to use them as a tool to enhance mobility. I can still do that. Not broken.

I do however agree that the JJ changes was a nerf primarily intended for heavies and assaults. Poptarts in particular. And the Timberwolf especially. In that regard it was effective.

It's a common myth that they should only be used for mobility. Mechs are highly agile machines for the most part and JJ's influence that in combat and out. Many stocks are hamstrung by the JJ change. Higher amounts of JJ's in lights and mediums should keep them at previous game levels. Heavy and Assaults should always be sluggish and no where near as agile, even with jump jets.

Throw the lighter weights a bone.

[CeeKay Boques]

I can't imagine they would try to even out the population by making lights less fun.

I miss you, 8 JumpJet 5D...

[AlexEss]

Your armed office building is not supposed to jump around.

Lights and mediums are... Such is life.. =P

[PANZERKAT]

The last changes impacted the survivability of jump capable mechs very much. Unless this is part of some ongoing plan with features not yet introduced.....next time....put all the balancing features in at the same time. This isn't closed beta anymore and that reason has been out the door for quite some time.

Introduce Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault only skills to level up. Give lights and maybe mediums a skill which reduces impact damage. Coupled with the damage reduction module they can get back to skirmishing with increased fun factor.

Since people have complained about ammo cap before and I agree with the double armour we have, make it so people can deactivate weapon slots. If you turn off a weapon slot in a torso, ammo in that torso is increased by 20% or something along those lines. Further customization would be cool and add more options to existing designs and give the IS another interesting feature over the Clans. Lets detail out that many of these machines can be a few hundred years old and vary greatly between each other.

I would love it if we had various visual arm, head, torso options that we could match how we wanted, but I'm not sure if that's even possible with the current system. Mech clothing. Even if it was different all in one skins for old and new mechs. We arguably have the new mechs, having more rugged designs from the past would be interesting. Would that require the effort of creating an all new mech and not viable?

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 25 July 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Phromethius]

3 jump jets used to be more than good in my Jenner. I actually downgraded to 2 jump jets and that was still more than fine before the changes. After though, my Jenner has trouble getting any vertical lift from those two. Strangely enough my Thunderbolt 9SE feels the same with its three jets, one in each torso. I play primarily lights. Jenners and Locusts. The combo of JJ changes with the stupid fall damage has crippled my mobility.

They should look at finding a way to allow the walk animation of lights to more closely follow the downgrade of terrain instead of just going straight. You can "Run Downhill" in a 'Mech. But this game treats it as a small fall and you take leg damage multiple times on one slope!

[Yukichi Fukuzawa]

So much complaining. I like the JJ changes myself. I think Mediums and lights SHOULD be better with JJ, because they are, you know, way lighter. It is not as good as before, but a 7 JJ griffon can still fly like a beast. I do not think anyone is afraid of Jumpsniping mediums and lights.... Lol. 2 Clan ER Larges will core them.

Mediums/lights have something they can do unique over bigger chassis? How is this bad? Now heavies and assaults are not always purely better.

[Lefty Lucy]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 25 July 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Many stocks are hamstrung by every single aspect of MWO the JJ change.

This game's not for stock mechs.

[SgtMagor]

you can say what you want, the nerf they did to the Victor and Highlander changed the whole design concept of the mechs. poptarts will aways pop, lights stay the same, jumping heavy and assault brawlers will get the short end of the stick!. ppcs, and gauss meta users will still be smiling and wrecking mechs, oi...

[PANZERKAT]

Lefty Lucy, on 25 July 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

This game's not for stock mechs.

That much is obvious, but there's no reason to smash new players with a hammer that isn't needed, because they are under the impression that taking a light or god forbid medium is a good idea...currently.

The ever advised screen shake while jumping should be a priority. It doesn't take popping out of the game and it would give them an excuse to make a module which reduces it.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 25 July 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[DasSibby]

I LOVE the JJ nerfs... (NOW WAIT! Let me explain...) But I think the damage to lights and mediums should be tweaked.

The JJ nerfs have generally eliminated/discouraged poptarts, which I'm thankful for. However they've also hurt light players. Light's are all about mobility, and the damage to a light's legs if you land at ANY speed other than a butterfly landing gently on a flower is crazy. (I've especially noticed this in my shiny new Nova)

So here's my proposal. Keep the damage values for heavies and assaults for JJ's, but for lights and mediums? Make fall damage drastically lower. Perhaps do a tonnage to damage increase? Like a 40 ton mech is hardly damaged from a high JJ fall, but a Assault mech takes 1/4th-1/3 leg damage if it falls from high up.

Those are my thoughts. Take 'em or leave 'em.

[Malleus011]

After watching a pair of Shadow Hawks take FOREVER to jump to mid-ramp on Crimson Strait, and being UNABLE to reach the top of the canyon wall in a full JJ Victor, I've come to the conclusion that the current JJ system in MWO isn't set for balance, it's a cruel joke,

The games - both TT and previous MW titles - that this property is based on had giant stompy robots, some of whom could easily jump more than a hundred meters in a hop. MWO JJ's are a joke by comparison.

And as for this game not being for stock 'mechs - maybe that's part of the problem.

[Sandslice]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 25 July 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

It's a common myth that they should only be used for mobility. Mechs are highly agile machines for the most part and JJ's influence that in combat and out. Many stocks are hamstrung by the JJ change. Higher amounts of JJ's in lights and mediums should keep them at previous game levels. Heavy and Assaults should always be sluggish and no where near as agile, even with jump jets.

Throw the lighter weights a bone.

I thought the common myth was that JJs were only used for hairpin turns and repeated needle-threading jump snipes.

[DONTOR]

I wonder how much jump I get from the 7 JJ Quickdraw after the patch, it used to be the second most jump capable mech in the game.. not too sure now.

[Mechteric]

light and medium mechs with jets definitely are worse after the jet nerf. I put 6 jets on my Griffon and could barely jet 1 elevation change of terrain, and it was godawful slow.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yea, all classes were effected. My Shadow Hawk can't jump to save it's life now.