22 replies to this topic

[Avarice1of2]

Before this patch my direwolf had side to side arm swing if I had a lower arm actuator, yet after this patch even with the actuator my arms are locked into vertical movements only. In order to have that arm swing I gave up building an 8 er large laser direwolf and instead but two er large and 1 large pulse in each arm. The only thing I am saying is that if I opt to give up a slot for an actuator I would like to be able to use it. Arm lock is turned off.

Edited by Avarice1of2, 28 July 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[NetherlightWolf]

Did you have arm lock toggled on?

[Avarice1of2]

arm lock is turned off.

[NetherlightWolf]

Something I have noticed on my Dire Wolf is that sometimes I will have a lower actuactor on one side but not the other. I have noticed this causes the dire wolf to act in a arms locked state regardless of setting.

[Avarice1of2]

It used to give it arm swing then pgi changed the it with this current patch

[Wintersdark]

Avarice1of2, on 28 July 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Before this patch my direwolf had side to side arm swing if I had a lower arm actuator, yet after this patch even with the actuator my arms are locked into vertical movements only. In order to have that arm swing I gave up building an 8 er large laser direwolf and instead but two er large and 1 large pulse in each arm. The only thing I am saying is that if I opt to give up a slot for an actuator I would like to be able to use it. Arm lock is turned off.

If you mount a large pulse laser, it disables the lower arm actuator just like a PPC or Ballistic will. This has always been the same functionality.

Also, you realise firing more than two large beams (erll, lpl) at once generates ghost heat, right? 8 large lasers is an absurdly bad build.

You'll notice if you remove the Large Pulse Laser in the actuator arm, you can click it on. Equip the LPL and it gets toggled off automatically.

Basically, any weapon of 5 tons or more and the actuator is removed.

[Avarice1of2]

Yeah still says I have the actuator even though I have the large pulse, and why the hell is pgi doing this. Im getting tired of builds being made obsolete because someone cries nerf. Getting tired of pgi thinking its a god idea but infact its actually a bad one. I can under stand no arm swing for a uac5/ac10/lb10/uac10/ac20/lb20/uac20. Also 8 er large lasers its called weapon groups, I have a multi button trackball, I can have 4 weapon groups. I picked the dwf-a's arm so I could have that arm swing, and I stayed away from ppc's so I could have it, so why does pgi feel the need to punish me and many others.

Edited by Avarice1of2, 28 July 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[NetherlightWolf]

I think the reason is more model limitations. If you were to aim your arms to one side. It would result in either your weapons firing thrugh you or damaging your own ct from shooting yourself. This being due to each arm unable to aim independently. Odd, but just got to work with what we got. On a side note, 8 erLLs is actually pretty mean if fired in pairs or chain fired. Not something I would do personally though. The energy recharge penalty on the dire wolf is just this side of crippling.

Edited by Strypewolf, 28 July 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Avarice1of2, on 28 July 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

Yeah still says I have the actuator even though I have the large pulse, and why the hell is pgi doing this. Im getting tired of builds being made obsolete because someone cries nerf. Getting tired of pgi thinking its a god idea but infact its actually a bad one. I can under stand no arm swing for a uac5/ac10/lb10/uac10/ac20/lb20/uac20. Also 8 er large lasers its called weapon groups, I have a multi button trackball, I can have 4 weapon groups. I picked the dwf-a's arm so I could have that arm swing, and I stayed away from ppc's so I could have it, so why does pgi feel the need to punish me and many others.

It's a UI issue. Nothing got nerfed or changed, you're not being punished, put your panties back on.

Large pulse lasers have always blocked the lower arm actuators on Clan Mechs, from the very first PTS on.

Strypewolf, on 28 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

I think the reason is more model limitations. If you were to aim your arms to one side. It would result in either your weapons firing thrugh you or damaging your own ct from shooting yourself. This being due to each arm unable to aim independently. Odd, but just got to work with what we got. On a side note, 8 erLLs is actually pretty mean if fired in pairs or chain fired. Not something I would do personally though. The energy recharge penalty on the dire wolf is just this side of crippling.

Well, no.

In MWO, zero arm actuators = no horizontal movement, one arm actuator = limited horizontal movement.

The Dire Wolf's DWF-A RA still allows for limited horizontal movement, just not with a LPL, which is exactly how it's been since the PTS.

Not to mention that there'd be no reason whatsoever to nerf a 4ERLL/2LPL build, because such a build is flat out terrible, a walking overheat nightmare due to Ghost Heat.

Edited by Wintersdark, 28 July 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[Koniving]

The Dire Wolf has only one arm that can equip a lower arm actuator.
It's a right arm of the DWF-A.
That is the only way you could ever (before or currently) aim left or right with the arms.

[NetherlightWolf]

Wintersdark, on 28 July 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

It's a UI issue. Nothing got nerfed or changed, you're not being punished, put your panties back on.

Large pulse lasers have always blocked the lower arm actuators on Clan Mechs, from the very first PTS on.



Well, no.

In MWO, zero arm actuators = no horizontal movement, one arm actuator = limited horizontal movement.

The Dire Wolf's DWF-A RA still allows for limited horizontal movement, just not with a LPL, which is exactly how it's been since the PTS.

Not to mention that there'd be no reason whatsoever to nerf a 4ERLL/2LPL build, because such a build is flat out terrible, a walking overheat nightmare due to Ghost Heat.

Again, weapon grouping and chain firing avoids the ghost heat issue. Not everyone alphas 100% of the time. Ah wonders of firing discipline. Also I have tried one lower actuator and if I had any horizontal movement it wasn't noticeable. Though your logic of restricted weight on the arms is flawed. A timber wolf can mount ac20 weapons on the arm and still have full arm movement.

[Wintersdark]

Strypewolf, on 28 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Again, weapon grouping and chain firing avoids the ghost heat issue. Not everyone alphas 100% of the time. Ah wonders of firing discipline. Also I have tried one lower actuator and if I had any horizontal movement it wasn't noticeable. Though your logic of restricted weight on the arms is flawed. A timber wolf can mount ac20 weapons on the arm and still have full arm movement.

No, it can't.

A timberwolf can only mount an AC20 on ONE arm, that keeps one arm free to have a functioning LAA. Thus, it still has arm movement.

Do I really need to put up a video of the different arm movement ranges? I have a Timberwolf with an AC20 on it's RA and a PPC on it's LA, and it cannot have any horizontal arm movement. I have another with an AC20 on it's RA and two CERML's on it's left, and 50% arm movement. A third yet with 4 CERML's: full arm movement.

Yeah, you can chain fire your 6 weapons to avoid ghost heat, but you'll suffer it if any more than 2 fire with less than a .5s interval. This build results in a limited amount of damage output (you can only fire 2 weapons at a time) while still generating substantial heat, requiring 100% Time On Target (and not generating cockpit shake, so your target can return fire easily while you shoot at him), and outputting pathetically low DPS for a Dire Wolf.

it's a bad build. A very bad build.

As to the actuators... Seriously, this is how it's been since the first public test. It hasn't changed at all.

[Bilbo]

Strypewolf, on 28 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Again, weapon grouping and chain firing avoids the ghost heat issue. Not everyone alphas 100% of the time. Ah wonders of firing discipline. Also I have tried one lower actuator and if I had any horizontal movement it wasn't noticeable. Though your logic of restricted weight on the arms is flawed. A timber wolf can mount ac20 weapons on the arm and still have full arm movement.

No it cant. Any ac in the arm of an Omni mech removes the actuator.

[Wintersdark]

OP: Humor me.

Put both LPL's on your Left Arm (which doesn't have a LAA) and put 3 of the ERLL's on your DWF-A RA, one on the left.

Disable and re-enable the LAA checkbox on the DWF-A RA, just to be sure it's not bugged, and try that. Voila! Some lower arm movement.

[Wintersdark]

Ok, random (also not particularly good, but a hell of a lot more dangerous) dire wolf build:


Note: only small weapons on the DWF-A Right Arm. Small lasers, but you can use anything <5t to the same effect.

Look, arms move freely!


(Uploading now; give it a couple minutes)

Edited by Wintersdark, 28 July 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[NetherlightWolf]

Um Winters...I hate to break it to you, but you call that a deadlier build? Excuse me a moment. *walks off to laugh like crazy for a moment*

Ah...I'm sorry, but I consider the 8 ER Large Laser build to be far more intimidating than yours. Here's why, A) You have absolutely nothing for ammo, and that's assuming your UACs don't jam from the word 'go'. B ) That build, by anyone with large or medium lasers, especially if they have targetting comp, will shred you before you can even do damage. C) You preach screen shake, let me tell you a little secret. Improved Gyros allows a mech to ignore any ballistic screen shake from anything less than an AC 10 and even then it's only minimal. D) Lasers don't need screen shake, if they're hitting your CT, you are *blind* so you can't even see what you're shooting in which they are likely moving and you're wildly firing ammo into the dirt. Also, last, but not least, E) Lasers have no travel time and are doing damage the instant they hit you. AC rounds have travel time, and a large laser will instantly do damage within the first tick of it's 1.3 second burn that outstrips anything your AC5 or AC10 could hope to do at their sub optimal damage, which, unless you actually sneak up behind a mech, they're already shooting you long before you even get into optimal range.

One last hole to poke in your arguements, .5 seconds to avoid ghost heat isn't long at all. It take about .5 seconds for you to blink.

Edited by Strypewolf, 28 July 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Ironwithin]

This thread was started because of a perceived bug with the arm-actuators, not to compare DWF-builds. Both your bickering is completely pointless here.

[Wintersdark]

Strypewolf, on 28 July 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Um Winters...I hate to break it to you, but you call that a deadlier build? Excuse me a moment. *walks off to laugh like crazy for a moment*

Ah...I'm sorry, but I consider the 8 ER Large Laser build to be far more intimidating than yours. Here's why, A) You have absolutely nothing for ammo, and that's assuming your UACs don't jam from the word 'go'. B ) That build, by anyone with large or medium lasers, especially if they have targetting comp, will shred you before you can even do damage. C) You preach screen shake, let me tell you a little secret. Improved Gyros allows a mech to ignore any ballistic screen shake from anything less than an AC 10 and even then it's only minimal. D) Lasers don't need screen shake, if they're hitting your CT, you are *blind* so you can't even see what you're shooting in which they are likely moving and you're wildly firing ammo into the dirt. Also, last, but not least, E) Lasers have no travel time and are doing damage the instant they hit you. AC rounds have travel time, and a large laser will instantly do damage within the first tick of it's 1.3 second burn that outstrips anything your AC5 or AC10 could hope to do at their sub optimal damage, which, unless you actually sneak up behind a mech, they're already shooting you long before you even get into optimal range.

One last hole to poke in your arguements, .5 seconds to avoid ghost heat isn't long at all. It take about .5 seconds for you to blink.

I didn't say it was a good build. I specifically said it wasn't a good build, in fact. It's just the random build I had at the moment to demonstrate that the arm actuators did work. It was certainly not posted with the intent of discussing your silly claims anyways, it was posted to show small weapons and LAA activated, as preceding the video.

As to everything else you said: Come back when you've got more than a couple weeks with the game. Or, if you feel so inclined, I'll demonstrate in game.

Ironwithin, on 28 July 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

This thread was started because of a perceived bug with the arm-actuators, not to compare DWF-builds. Both your bickering is completely pointless here.

Hey, my posts here have all included pertinent on topic answers (Edit: Except this one, which I've editted to remove the more ranty responses to Strypewolf's post). Yes, I was calling out 8 ERLL builds and such as bad but that was mostly due to how put upon and obnoxious the OP was in his ranting about how this wasn't a bug but deliberate nerfing by PGI to counter his build.

I'll admit, I should have just let that go - but at least my posts have been constructive =)

And I hope you damn well appreciate the effort going into not cutting into that post quoted above.

Edited by Wintersdark, 28 July 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[Avarice1of2]

Ok winter and everyone else this is the build her name is Radiance™. Radiance is a sniper I can not afford to put all my high crit weapons in one arm. Before the current patch I though PGI had actually listened to players and gave partially what we want. The fact that PGI just goofed and decided to fix a mistake that actually was an improvement, pisses people off more then if they had said dwf can not have horizontal arm swing. The arm swing should not be based off of weight, it should be based off of how much kick back a weapon has. Also Winter I am not saying this is personal but I have experienced a cycle since closed beta. I make a build, I excel at build, people copy build, build gets nerfed. The twin gauss cataphracts blame it on me, the chain firing area denial Ilya blame it on me, the atlai with flamer(s) blame on me. Oh and sorry if my screen shot is a bit letter box but I play on veryhigh at 3840x1024 at 32-45 fps. On a side note I am not a dude.
http://i123.photobuc...01.jpg~original

Edited by Avarice1of2, 28 July 2014 - 11:13 PM.

[Koniving]

Strypewolf, on 28 July 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Also I have tried one lower actuator and if I had any horizontal movement it wasn't noticeable. Though your logic of restricted weight on the arms is flawed. A timber wolf can mount ac20 weapons on the arm and still have full arm movement.

No arm movement.
First public test.


Second public test.


Also the Timber Wolf (assuming the left arm actuator is installed) with any autocannon, PPC, etc. mounted in the right arm (or left in PPC's case), can only twist the arms 10 degrees (almost none). Without any ACs, PPCs, or Gauss Rifles installed in the arms and with both lower arm actuators installed, the Timber Wolf gets over 65 degrees of arm movement.

I have discovered, much to my dismay, that the Kitfox S right arm has no lower or hand actuators at all. Completely disgusting as it's got the absolute worst hardpoints of all the right arms to begin with.

Edited by Koniving, 28 July 2014 - 11:27 PM.