126 replies to this topic

[Zoddom]

I have to get some things off my chest.

I play MWO for 1 year now, but only veeeerrry rarely, so I consider myself a noob.

I only play the Jenner 7D and the Catapult K2.
I play in the EU and the high ping was always a bit of a problem, but never really bothered me.
I always did between 200 and 400 damage per round, and lasted agood while.

now, recently I started playing again, and now its my first days since the clan invasion.

now, my games look like this:
I come around a corner, OP clan mech to my face, melts me in 2 seconds, I do 30 damage and Im dead.

every single game.

What the **** is wrong? This game is now entirely pay2win and the fun factor is 0 for me.

For me, right now its either remove those OP pay2win mechs, or I quit this game forever.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Don't go around corners like that. it's really not any different from boomjagers or ppc ac5 banshees or poptarting victors really. clan mechs are strong for sure but they can be taken down. just takes better teamwork and not facing them head on.

[LordLosh]

Clan mechs will own anything 1v1 do not engage them 1v1 in a Jenner you should try grouping up with another light hit and run tactics. K2 sit back with the group and try to snipe. You shouldn't be poking around any corners alone in either of those mechs anyways.
adapt, overcome, persevere. Or quit and ill be the first to say good bye.
PS I own the Pay2win mechs. I still win quite easily with my inner sphere mechs. I do feel your pain that my atlas is no longer the big dog on the block though

[Zoddom]

so wheres the point in playing against a 12 player clan mech team with my K2 then?
its ridiculous to get taken down in literally 2 seconds at whatever distance by whatever clan-op-weapon.
they are jsut seriously overpowered, there is absolutely no use in using innersphere mechs right now.

[JigglyMoobs]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

now, recently I started playing again, and now its my first days since the clan invasion.

now, my games look like this:
I come around a corner, OP clan mech to my face, melts me in 2 seconds, I do 30 damage and Im dead.

every single game.

What the **** is wrong? This game is now entirely pay2win and the fun factor is 0 for me.

For me, right now its either remove those OP pay2win mechs, or I quit this game forever.

A: You are a bit rusty.
B: People have gotten better.

[Redshift2k5]

Inner sphere mechs can do the exact same thing, AC40 jagers an one-hit kill every mech in the game with a cockpit kill. (firing both at the same time has a penalty but is not impossible). Even a Jenner with 6 MLAS can rear-core a mech in seconds if you let them.

Clan mechs have already been sold and delivered, they are never going to be removed. An outrageous request that only serves to make you look like a buffoon.

[Zoddom]

you guys realize that you just are trying to justify the clan mechs being op?

right now again this round, 40 dmg, got smashed with 2 shots.

thats just incredible, i was never able to do that, I always had to stick to a target for some time to kill it.
and now there are suddenly some fency dolla dolla bill yall mechs that can jsut onehit everything?

are the devs even serious?

[Koniving]

When fighting Clan mechs, go for legs, arms, and cockpits.

Many of the larger Clan mechs sacrifice armor on legs because everyone is so used to getting quick kills through destroying the torso.

Lots of the Clan mechs have almost all weapons on their arms (which when equipped with PPCs, Gauss Rifles or autocannons are unable to pivot left and right). Destroying these will make them much weaker (and it's very easy to do).

Every Clan mech has a gigantic cockpit hitbox that you could hit with twin Gauss Rifles from 2197 meters away with your eyes closed. Point, aim, shoot. It's easy for any weapons at 200 to 800 meters, though if they're closer than 100 the way they bounce makes it nearly impossible to hit. Keep some distance.

[Zoddom]

Koniving, on 28 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

When fighting Clan mechs, go for legs, arms, and cockpits.

Many of the larger Clan mechs sacrifice armor on legs because everyone is so used to getting quick kills through destroying the torso.

Lots of the Clan mechs have almost all weapons on their arms (which when equipped with PPCs, Gauss Rifles or autocannons are unable to pivot left and right). Destroying these will make them much weaker (and it's very easy to do).

Every Clan mech has a gigantic cockpit hitbox that you could hit with twin Gauss Rifles from 2197 meters away with your eyes closed. Point, aim, shoot. It's easy for any weapons at 200 to 800 meters, though if they're closer than 100 the way they bounce makes it nearly impossible to hit. Keep some distance.

well that was a bit more helpful. so I really have to stay on long distance now, because I dont even have time to aim for anything when I am in close quarters with a clan mech, because I am really usually down in 2 seconds.

[JigglyMoobs]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

you guys realize that you just are trying to justify the clan mechs being op?

right now again this round, 40 dmg, got smashed with 2 shots.

thats just incredible, i was never able to do that, I always had to stick to a target for some time to kill it.
and now there are suddenly some fency dolla dolla bill yall mechs that can jsut onehit everything?

are the devs even serious?

What is killing you and what build are you in?

Also, note that the ELO has been reset after introduction of the Clans. It could very well be that the people you were playing against before.... sucked compared to people you are playing now. Now you are stuck in the higher elo queues where people actually know how to aim, and will be for a while until your elo gets beaten down to where it was before.

Even in the days of IS mechs plenty of people got killed within seconds in the higher elo brackets because they did something dumb.

Even with clans in play IS mechs can do plenty well. Shadowhawks, Dragonslayers, Victors, Atlases etc can all still do pretty well if piloted well.

If you're doing only 40 damage per game... you're doing it wrong.

If you know what you are doing, you can absolutely wreck face with IS mechs. For example:

http://www.twitch.tv/sebnitu/c/4768332

1000 pts damage in a Shadowhawk-2k. Seriously, don't blame the mechs. Figure out what you are doing wrong.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 28 July 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Koniving]

The typical Clan UAC/20 shot is 4 damage. (Fires 5).
The Inner Sphere AC/20 shot is 20 damage.
Clan UAC/10 shot is 2 damage. (Fires 5)
IS AC/10 is 10 damage.
Clan UAC/5 is 1.67. (Fires 3).
IS UAC/5 and AC/5 is 5 damage.
Clan UAC/2 is 1 damage.
IS AC/2 is 2 damage.

(IS mechs are simply more dangerous at any one instant with their weapons when it comes to ballistics).

Now on to energy weapons...

Clan ER Large Lasers are 0.25 more damage than they should be (tabletop is simply 2 damage above IS, MWO it's 2.25 more than IS) but the beam time is 50% longer.

Otherwise, Clan weapons are at canonical values (except the ER Smalls and Pulses. I won't get into Pulses.) Both at heat and damage. (Clan ER Medium is 7 damage, 5 heat as it should be. Clan ER Small 5 damage, 2 heat. It's 4 damage, 2 heat.)

Meanwhile the IS medium and small lasers are at canonical damage values but extremely high heat. (4 instead of 3 for ML. 2 instead of 1 for SL.) Fixing that would give the IS mechs a better chance up close as all standard IS brawling lasers (270 and lower range; doesn't include pulse lasers) are by lore much, much colder than Clan ER laser weapons.

PGI should fix that discrepancy. Especially since the ER Larges, Larges, and Large Pulse Lasers are all so cold despite having longer than canonical ranges. (ER Large is 8.5 heat in MWO, but 12 in tabletop. Large Pulse is 8 heat, but in tabletop it's 10 heat. Regular Large Laser is 9 heat in tabletop, but 7 heat in MWO. The tradeoff for range and firepower was heat and weight. In MWO it's just weight with less heat).

Edited by Koniving, 28 July 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

you guys realize that you just are trying to justify the clan mechs being op?

right now again this round, 40 dmg, got smashed with 2 shots.

thats just incredible, i was never able to do that, I always had to stick to a target for some time to kill it.
and now there are suddenly some fency dolla dolla bill yall mechs that can jsut onehit everything?

are the devs even serious?

Sorry bro, but I get just as many kills in IS mechs as I do in Clan mechs. IS mechs are actually better at quick kills owing to pinpoint ACs and access to regular PPCs, while Clan ACs are burst-fire that spread damage.

Clans have better DPS and, owing to lighter weapons, tend to have more/bigger guns for the same weight mech. However, their weapons also spread damage more and take longer to deal damage; spread that damage around by defensively torso twisting, offering your arm into oncoming fire, and being mobile.

Ourtageous statements like "they should remove clan mechs" and "are the devs even thinking" don't earn you any credit and just make you look bad. Are there things the Clans do better than IS mechs? Certainly. But there are weaknesses as well, and the balance is not as bad as you are making it out to be. My win:loss and kills:deaths in IS mechs and Clan mechs are pretty much the same (except my stats in the Nova are all terrible but my Kit Foxes are doing better than average)

[Zoddom]

JigglyMoobs, on 28 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

What is killing you and what build are you in?

Also, note that the ELO has been reset after introduction of the Clans. It could very well be that the people you were playing against before.... sucked compared to people you are playing now. Now you are stuck in the higher elo queues where people actually know how to aim, and will be for a while until your elo gets beaten down to where it was before.

Even in the days of IS mechs plenty of people got killed within seconds in the higher elo brackets because they did something dumb.

Even with clans in play IS mechs can do plenty well. Shadowhawks, Dragonslayers, Victors, Atlases etc can all still do pretty well if piloted well.

If you're doing only 40 damage per game... you're doing it wrong.

If you know what you are doing, you can absolutely wreck face with IS mechs. For example:

http://www.twitch.tv/sebnitu/c/4768332

1000 pts damage in a Shadowhawk-2k. Seriously, don't blame the mechs. Figure out what you are doing wrong.

wow okay, honestly I didnt even know there was an ELO system. in normal public matches?!
that would explain why the last 20 teams Ive played against played like they were all premade and on teamspeak.

this topic here is part of figuring out what i am doing wrong, because I seriously had no idea.
somehow Ive got the feeling that two days ago, I was not playing against such "pro teams", it really started today (maybe because I group up with some friends who just got new accounts?)

edit:

Redshift2k5, on 28 July 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Sorry bro, but I get just as many kills in IS mechs as I do in Clan mechs. IS mechs are actually better at quick kills owing to pinpoint ACs and access to regular PPCs, while Clan ACs are burst-fire that spread damage.

to me it really feels the other way round. really. I get instagibbed in my K2 by any clan mech and to kill one I need like half a minute....

Edited by Zoddom, 28 July 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[TercieI]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

wow okay, honestly I didnt even know there was an ELO system. in normal public matches?!
that would explain why the last 20 teams Ive played against played like they were all premade and on teamspeak.

this topic here is part of figuring out what i am doing wrong, because I seriously had no idea.
somehow Ive got the feeling that two days ago, I was not playing against such "pro teams", it really started today (maybe because I group up with some friends who just got new accounts?)

Premade and on teamspeak? The queues got split about a month back. If you're playing solo, so are the other 23 guys. Sorry.

[Arkroma]

Interesting, same thing happens to me before the Clan release.

Well back then it was Cataphracts and Jagers, but result is the same--I get killed in like 5 seconds (In my Jester mostly). People tend to forget how pinpoint damage make mechs feel like paper dolls back in the days.

Now OP, really it's not about the clan mechs, it could be a 4AC cataphract or a 4AC Jager you are not going to last longer than facing a clan mech, or there might just be the whole team of enemies and they just melt you right there.

It's about don't go around the corner if you are not sure what's behind it. I still make this mistake a lot so yeah I feel you, all I can say is if you are not that fast, go with your team, if you are left alone, play safe. And bring Wallhack moudule!

[dragnier1]

The group and solos got split.

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I always had to stick to a target for some time to kill it.

This is no longer a good thing. You'll just grab everyone's attention. Don't just charge in, you might find yourself stranded.

[Kin3ticX]

I am doing alright in C-bill IS 'mechs against clan 'mechs. The only exception would be the 50+10 alpha Gauss, Gauss, ERPPC, ERPPC Dire Whale which I am sometimes slammed by unwhittingly and opened up. However, the Dire Wolf is really slow and has knuckle dragging arms.

The Timberwolf/Madcat is really strong characteristic wise but it got hit a little with the recent JJ nerfs.

The balance isn't perfect between IS/Clan but it could have been worse.

Honestly, turning the wrong corner in a light 'mech and eating any Assault mech, IS or Clan and eating a full alpha will be fatal either way.

If you feel the need for fresh idea try skimming thru my guide in my sig

Edited by Kin3ticX, 28 July 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

wow okay, honestly I didnt even know there was an ELO system. in normal public matches?!
that would explain why the last 20 teams Ive played against played like they were all premade and on teamspeak.

this topic here is part of figuring out what i am doing wrong, because I seriously had no idea.
somehow Ive got the feeling that two days ago, I was not playing against such "pro teams", it really started today (maybe because I group up with some friends who just got new accounts?)

In the new match maker, when you are dropping by your self, you are always dropping vs. other solo players. Even Odwalla, the guy who's twitch stream I linked, was playing by himself. He was just talking with a buddy on TS.

However, the minute you group up with anybody, you are only allowed on the group queue. In this case, yes, you might be facing some tough organized competition.

If you wander out by yourself, you could very well be getting focus fired on by multiple mechs, leading to near instant death.

Quote

to me it really feels the other way round. really. I get instagibbed in my K2 by any clan mech and to kill one I need like half a minute....

This might happen if you walked out in front of a Direwolf or a Warhawk with the correct build. The key here is to NOT WALK OUT IN FRONT OF A DIREWOLF AND STOP. Don't confront them face on in your little medium mech. Just don't do it. The results if you do are

But the Direwolf is not maneuverable at all. It's worse than even an Atlas. So if you manage to get around him, it could be ggclose for him.

If you want to get better, I really recommend watching some of these streams:

http://www.twitch.tv/jagerxii
http://www.twitch.tv/mwopro
http://www.twitch.tv/sebnitu

If nothing else it helps to let you know what you are up against. A lot of these streamers also explain what they are doing as they are playing, so you can pick up a lot of tricks and tactics from them.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 28 July 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[John1352]

Clan mechs are really nasty, and IMO the Jenner and Catapult are slightly weaker vs them compared to other mechs, due to having huge centre torsos. You can still do pretty well though, especially if you're still around at the end.

With the centre torso on legs (jenner) you can't afford to get shot. You'll just die. Fortunately, you're really fast (you do have an XL280-300 on there right?) The way I play, is to look around holding Q if work out how far all the enemy triangles are, in addition to looking at map. Pick an enemy closer than the rest and somewhat exposed.

If someone else has targeted the one you've picked, great, minimal exposure: Move into the closest cover, run up the cover or go around the side, stick out the smallest amount of jenner you can and still hit the target, fire immediately (you already know where target is) and be back in cover as soon as the lasers beam stops.

If your target hasn't been targeted by someone, you'll have to move out of cover, then line it up, then shoot. This is riskier, as you will give enemies the time to shoot back. Generally I line up target, shoot, and hit the ground/building with the last bit of my shot as I move back into cover.

Basically, look for opportunities to get shots in while taking nothing in return. It's often better to avoid using the same place twice (three times is asking for a quick death) in a row, someone will often set their crosshair right on the spot you last fired from, and then all they have to do is click when you appear.

[Nightmare1]

The Clans simply make everyone fight smarter now.

Here's a couple of quick tips:

1) Clear your corners, look before you leap, etc. In short, don't go tearing around the battlefield even if you do go 130+ kph.

2) Don't face Clanners head-on. Though it is possible to fight and beat them 1v1, it is inadvisable. Clanners are like glass cannons with massive frontal firepower but little armor. Outmaneuver them to beat them if you find yourself trapped in a 1v1 fight.

Overall, the game is much more strategic now, demanding that pilots focus not simply on piloting and gunnery but also on personal placement and teammate placement. Though it was previously possible, in some cases, to go off on your own to fight, it is now imperative that you work with your team, even if they are Pugs. I suggest you check out the Merc Corps Thread and find a good Unit to join. Dropping with teammates is much better than dropping solo. Units like Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade, The Aces Wild, The Brethren, and the Atlas Hunters are all tough outfits with their own TeamSpeak 3 servers. They can offer you support, tips, and even training, greatly improving your MWO experience in the process.

Or, if you decide to continue going it alone, you can check out some of the free TS servers like the ComStar one I recently heard about, where many single puggers gather to team-up with each other.