126 replies to this topic

[Zoddom]

okay, thank you guys, there were some pretty helpful infos !

so you said, when I group up I only get into the group queue?

i dont understand that. lets say I group up with 2 of my friends, they all just started playing so I guess their ELO should be on a neutral value (?).
when I hit that public match button, it is not the same public matches I get when playing alone?
wheres the difference to those group matches?

[JigglyMoobs]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

okay, thank you guys, there were some pretty helpful infos !

so you said, when I group up I only get into the group queue?

i dont understand that. lets say I group up with 2 of my friends, they all just started playing so I guess their ELO should be on a neutral value (?).
when I hit that public match button, it is not the same public matches I get when playing alone?
wheres the difference to those group matches?

Yeah. Right now, if you hit start, your 3 man group will be teamed up with other groups to form a 12 man team.

For example, it could be you three, plus a 9 person group.

Now your 12 man is matched against an enemy team also made out of preamde groups. So on the other team, you could have a 10 man plus a 2 man. You will never have solo pilots playing with or against premades in the current match maker.

If you are in a small group. You'll often be teamed up with a large group. Chances are that there is also a large group on the other side. In this case, it's to your benefit to follow the larger group on your team and work with them.

The solo queue and the premade queue have separate Elos. Starting off with a neutral Elo, you'll likely run into some really strong teams and some not so strong teams.

Also, if MM cannot find enough premades to compose the 12 man teams, it may expand the Elo range. So in some cases you could be dropping with or against a group that is way above your Elo due to the inability to find matches otherwise.

[Eaerie]

Don't forget to use the low slung arm weapons against them. I have noticed a LOT of clan mechs have a majority of thier weapons slung really low, use the terrain to your advantage. There are a lot of locations you can get yourself into that allows you to fire your weapons (especially if you have high mounted weapons) and take little to no return fire.
If playing a light you need to not run ahead and get blasted, flank, shoot and scoot back into cover. Don't keep going in predictable direction. You zip behind an outcropping of rocks, don't keep going and clear the other side, stop turn around and go back the way you came. Zig zag and use small bursts of JJ's to make yourself a hard target, just watch for fall damage. Be a distraction, hit em in the back and run off. Keep target locks. All normal light mech stuff and you will be fine. Make sure you are fast, never going straight and never running in the open.

[ShinobiHunter]

I don't play a Jenner at all, but the K2 can be brutal if you team up with an assault mech, especially a direwolf. The assault will draw the enemies attention and allow you to really lay out some damage.

[TheCaptainJZ]

JigglyMoobs, on 28 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Also, note that the ELO has been reset after introduction of the Clans.

I don't think so...do you have a link for that?

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

TheCaptainJZ, on 29 July 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

I don't think so...do you have a link for that?

They certainly did that,cant remember when,it was when the stats were reseted and UI 2.0 came imo.

[IraqiWalker]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

you guys realize that you just are trying to justify the clan mechs being op?

right now again this round, 40 dmg, got smashed with 2 shots.

thats just incredible, i was never able to do that, I always had to stick to a target for some time to kill it.
and now there are suddenly some fency dolla dolla bill yall mechs that can jsut onehit everything?

are the devs even serious?

You need to adjust your tactics, and honestly, after all the number crunching it's clear that anyone who says Clan mechs are OP is pretty much wrong. I've been mopping the floor with them in my IS mechs without a problem. In fact, destroying a Direwhale with a Locust is so pathetically easy, it's depressing.

Clan mechs excel at long range and Damage over Time, while IS mechs excel at short range and PP FLD.

As a light mech pilot (I have been piloting them almost exclusively since day one of playing this game), you need to adjust to a more hit and run style of play. Unless you've been playing as long as I have, you shouldn't face opponents in drawn out battles.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 July 2014 - 03:41 AM.

[Denolven]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

What the **** is wrong? This game is now entirely pay2win and the fun factor is 0 for me.

Well, besides the ELO reset, there are two things you should understand:

1. MWO is a money making machine. Business decisions resolve around monetization. Don't have any illusions that they do it for our pleasure (just enough to keep the cash flowing). That doesn't mean they are evil, it just means when having two options, they will take the one that gets more money in. It's one of the problems with Capitalism - it doesn't care about quality, it only cares about income.

Spoiler

And yes, unless all the Clan mechs are available for C-Bills, I consider their superior firepower pay2win. It won't get you an autowin if you suck, but if two equally good players meet, the one with clan tech has an edge.
To be more precise, their firepower is only a problem because fighting is all we can do in this game. If there were other things to do, you it wouldn't be much of an issue.

However, Capitalism also has a very effective mechanism to handle that. If you don't like it, don't pay (and more importantly: if you do like it, do pay). You can talk all day long - they won't hear you. If you want them to listen, you have to use their language.
Capitalism is stupid, but honest.

2. Power Creep, the cheap way to add "content":



PS: Unless I see data that supports the claim, I'll continue to be very sceptical when people say "Clan Mechs are NOT overpowered". I see that they aren't autowin, but that doesn't mean they are not op. The AC80 Clan mech may have less damage per projectile, but it's still twice as much firepower as a Jagerbomb!

Edited by Denolven, 29 July 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[Koniving]

Oddly enough with a simple "movement" or "bob" to the reticules, Inner Sphere would be the pay2win side (as DoT weapons + bob = spread damage. FLD weapons + bob = override by skill-based timings).

In the various fights using third person (where the reticule bob exists), even standard heatsink mechs (sporting IS SRMs with their bonus damage and AC/20 with its pinpoint B.S.) have yet to lose against Clanners. Except the Kitfox. The Kitfox and Adder in these tests always seem to win (mainly because it's easy to fight outside of SRM and AC/20 range).

At any rate...

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

when I hit that public match button, it is not the same public matches I get when playing alone?
wheres the difference to those group matches?

ELO has never worked for the pure group queues, and clearly still doesn't. You're pit against whatever happens to be there. At some point in recent history PGI made it so that all groups could only play in the Group Queue (which tries to match class for class, weight for weight, but often doesn't). The Solo queue has no group players at all, it's 100% pure random people who are randomly thrown in at certain ELO levels.

What's really bad about this is that 2 players thrown into a group queue are now up against vastly superior and more coordinated forces that are typically pure meta; showing us the most disgusting side of MWO. And what's that, you're a recruit? Pfft! Welcome to hell, population everyone in the group queue but for you it'll be especially bad.

This makes it very difficult to bring a new player in and try to train him or her anymore.

Edited by Koniving, 29 July 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

okay, thank you guys, there were some pretty helpful infos !

so you said, when I group up I only get into the group queue?

i dont understand that. lets say I group up with 2 of my friends, they all just started playing so I guess their ELO should be on a neutral value (?).
when I hit that public match button, it is not the same public matches I get when playing alone?
wheres the difference to those group matches?

So question for you, when you do group up with your friends, are you all on TS/VOIP? Are you all communicating with each other on primary targets/etc? Or you all basically doing your own thing while chatting away?

Now, take your own experience now in the group queue where the other team, made up of a combination groups of 2 to 12 people on TS, communicating, calling out targets (alpha cat, delta jenner, echo atlas - each mech has a letter assisted to it) and those targets being "melted down". It does not matter if it is a Clan mech or IS mech, what does matter is coordination and team work.

Drop in the solo queue for a bit. As long as you are not leading the charge and do not round a corner running into several mechs at one time you should not be melted

And I believe that it is a good thing for the group queue, though it can be a very rough beginning. It would sorta be like playing paintball. One side almost everyone is just tagging along, talking about their weekend/life/etc while the other side is focused on eliminating targets, calling out positions, etc. You can change it up some to where each side may be made up of different mini-groups on their own channels, some chatting about life while others are focused on the combat, bringing concentrated fire, even if some of the shots are to just keep someone pinned down while another gets into position.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Cookiemonter669, on 29 July 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

They certainly did that,cant remember when,it was when the stats were reseted and UI 2.0 came imo.

Stats were reset when achievements came online but I'm pretty sure they didn't touch Elo. I can't recall them ever erasing it since it was released and bugfixed within a month of release. That was over a year ago.

[Satan n stuff]

Cookiemonter669, on 29 July 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

They certainly did that,cant remember when,it was when the stats were reseted and UI 2.0 came imo.

No, they recalculated elo once because they had a bug, but there hasn't been a full reset.

[xeromynd]

I'm a completely casual PUG player who isn't amazing by any means and I'm still having fun, and getting consistent damage post-invasion with both IS and Clan mechs.

It sounds like you're a bit stubborn and unwilling to adjust. I was there too, but I figured I'd rather adjust to the ever-changing gameplay than cross my arms and scoff and walk away from what is still, imo, a very fun game. I suggest you cool off and take a fresh look at all the chassis that are available, as playstyle and tactics have changed since one year ago.

And if you've absolutely tried adjusting, and given every IS mech a chance, reworked your tactics to fit with the current meta, then maybe it's time for you to buy an "OP" clan mech and just use that, no?

[terrycloth]

Well, next month when the Nova and Kit Fox are available for cbills is the time, technically.

I was checking out the Nova-Prime and I was like... really? 12 medium lasers? No wonder they call it a nova!

[IraqiWalker]

terrycloth, on 29 July 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Well, next month when the Nova and Kit Fox are available for cbills is the time, technically.

I was checking out the Nova-Prime and I was like... really? 12 medium lasers? No wonder they call it a nova!

LOL, pretty much. One alpha, and you're dead.

I'm personally running it with 6 MLs, and 6SLs. a set in each arm, my right has the shorter range (jab), and my left has the longer range (punch). It's a one-two boxer.

[Dracol]

The thing about most Clan mechs are that they rely on damage over time weapons. In your K2, poke out, fire, and fall back into cover. If you take more than one shot before getting back into cover, then you'll have a bad time.

As for the jenner, depending how long its been since you played, you maybe suffering from no longer having lag shield. Lights can no longer run rampant among an enemy team and stay alive for an ungodly amount of time. Try attacking the enemy from the sides, land your 6 med lasers, then move back into cover.

The days of two mechs slugging it out over an open field have long past.

Edited for spelling cause for some messed up reason I put in "have long pasted"... I may have to lay off the booze.

Edited by Dracol, 29 July 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Dracol, on 29 July 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

I may have to lay off the booze.

Nonsense!

However, you are correct in your analysis on the clan mechs. My ON1-K became a clan buster when I realized I can just crit a clan mech out, and wreck all it's armor with 1 alpha, in 1 second, then turn around and spread all their damage onto multiple parts. Wait for my weapons to reload, and then kill them.

[Noth]

Denolven, on 29 July 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

PS: Unless I see data that supports the claim, I'll continue to be very sceptical when people say "Clan Mechs are NOT overpowered". I see that they aren't autowin, but that doesn't mean they are not op. The AC80 Clan mech may have less damage per projectile, but it's still twice as much firepower as a Jagerbomb!

And that AC80 mech slower, has no agility, has craptastic range and either is severely lacking armor or severely lacking ammo. Lights and fast mediums could eat it alive. You can't look at any mechs in such a simple way.

[Denolven]

Noth, on 29 July 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

And that AC80 mech slower, has no agility, has craptastic range and either is severely lacking armor or severely lacking ammo. Lights and fast mediums could eat it alive.

That's interesting, because I'm a medium pilot and good enough to have a >1 W/L ratio with my Trebuchets (pre-Clan, not sure what it is post-clan). And I tell you I can't take on Clan mediums, they'll rip me apart. And should I ever dare to stay in sight of that heavy/assault for more than half a second, a lost limb is the smallest price I pay. Did you ever try to circle a heavy/assault mech whose pilot knows what he's doing, in a 1v1 with a medium mech?
The only way a medium mech kills a heavy/assault is either by making it 2-3 versus 1, or by having the opponent damaged in the first place (assuming both have equal skill). That's a simple rule, no matter if IS or Clan. And that's perfectly fine, because they are supposed to. Clan mechs just kill you even faster, because they have 50% more firepower.

That wouldn't be a problem if

• there was a way to win without killing, and/or
  
• the limiting factor was actually fighting value instead of player count

I don't have a problem with Clan mechs having alot more firepower. I have a problem with the game design, because it forces us to fight, at a disadvantage. There's a reason why people always go for the big mechs, preferably the ones with the most Dakka. It's not because they look nice.

Edited by Denolven, 29 July 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Denolven, on 29 July 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

That's interesting, because I'm a medium pilot and good enough to have a >1 W/L ratio with my Trebuchets (pre-Clan, not sure what it is post-clan). And I tell you I can't take on Clan mediums, they'll rip me apart. And should I ever dare to stay in sight of that heavy/assault for more than half a second, a lost limb is the smallest price I pay. Did you ever try to circle a heavy/assault mech whose pilot knows what he's doing, in a 1v1 with a medium mech?
The only way a medium mech kills a heavy/assault is either by making it 2-3 versus 1, or by having the opponent damaged in the first place (assuming both have equal skill). That's a simple rule, no matter if IS or Clan. And that's perfectly fine, because they are supposed to. Clan mechs just kill you even faster, because they have 50% more firepower.

That wouldn't be a problem if

• there was a way to win without killing, and/or
  
• the limiting factor was actually fighting value instead of player count

I don't have a problem with Clan mechs having alot more firepower. I have a problem with the game design, because it forces us to fight, at a disadvantage. There's a reason why people always go for the big mechs, preferably the ones with the most Dakka. It's not because they look nice.

Base caps ARE still there. In fact I had 10 matches in the last 3 days that were ended via base cap. The secondary objective exists on Assault. It's even easier now since turrets are at 30 HP now. You can just drive by them and kill them while on your way to the cap, or get to the cap, and then start shooting the turrets down.

As for firepower: All of it is spread fire, even the weapons that technically deal more damage per second can't always outperform IS counterparts. Not to mention that IS ballistics are still the kings of the field.

I might be a radical case, but I have had no problems taking down T-Wolves in my Orion. Actually, now that I think about it, I've had no problems taking down any clan mech in my Orion (ON1-K AC20, 2xSRM4, 4ML, STD300). The Atlas has become an even bigger monster because it's the one mech that can stare a DWF in the eye, and flat out kill it every single time (IF you use AC20, SRMs and MLs. If you use Gauss, you might just explode)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 July 2014 - 06:20 PM.