A Student's Question - Help A Mentor Out?
#1
Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:59 AM
Right now, he's sworn not to buy his first mech until he's completed Cadet Bonus, and with the new Group Queue, the two of us get smashed apart, no matter whether I'm using one of my Elite Clan mechs or mastered IS ones.
So far, he's found that the trial Orion and Shadow Hawk are the ones that he enjoys the most, because he's enjoying the pinpoint of ballistics and PPCs. This is a surprise to me - in almost every game the two of us play together, he's normally the support player, and I'm normally the fighter, but he's found LRMs aren't his fancy, unlike when he first started playing.
Anyway, I'm testing the waters here, but what can people recommend in the way of mechs that fit the playstyle of the Shadow Hawk or Orion? I don't exactly own either of them currently, although the Thunderbolt is close enough to the Orion in some respects that I have a decent idea.
I've got other novices hovering around, but I haven't had a chance to work with them recently.
#2
Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:26 AM
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
To answer your question, I'd look at Jagermechs and Cataphracts.
#3
Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:35 AM
On top of that, only a person who has piloted and worked with a mech knows what the hitboxes are like, whether or not to bother with certain weapon systems on it, and so on. Smurfy is fine for setting up builds, but I wouldn't call it a tool for comparing mechs, otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread.
Annoyingly, in the way of heavy mechs I own both of the clan ones, Dragons and Thunderbolts, while in mediums I have Hunchback, Centurion and both clan mechs. But, I've got a couple of spare mechbays, so if the consensus is to try him with one of those, I'll buy the variant people suggest, and the two of us will smash out a build which I can try out to see if it works at a basic level./
Edited by Tarriss Halcyon, 29 July 2014 - 01:35 AM.
#4
Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:35 AM
Tarriss Halcyon, on 29 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:
Orions are a good chassis, even for starters. The Cataphract line usually outguns them in terms of ballistic/energy mixes.
However, I would never let the Orion go, it's a great brawler and tanker. The mech has assault level firepower, with the speed of a heavy, and the armor of a light assault mech.
STD 300 is a great engine to pick up. As it will fit mechs in all weight classes rather well. Along with an XL 300. Those two are the most used engines out there.
For medium mechs, the shadowhawk is a good starter as well. I personally recommend Hunchbacks for new players, but if he likes the SHD line up, and enjoys the use of JJs, he should go for Shawks immediately.
My Orion starter was the ON1-K. It's the hottest of them since it has 4 energy hardpoints, which also means it's more challenging, but I like it.
ON1-K Clan buster
That's the build I use on it. It melts most things it runs int, especially clan mechs with their big CTs, and cockpits.
Since he enjoys PPCs, I would go for a 2PPC AC20 build on the K. You can run it with most other variants as well.
EDIT: I will also lend my help in designing builds. I've spent almost as much time in smurfy as I have in the game, if not more.
Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 July 2014 - 01:36 AM.
#5
Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:39 AM
#6
Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:57 AM
I've also found I enjoy both the Griffin and the Wolverine quite a lot, both 55 tonners like the Shadow Hawk. The Griffin has an excellent torso twist range, BTW. In fact, lately I've been running a WVR-6K with an LRM-10 (for early softening up work), TAG (in the head slot) and 4 Medium Pulse Lasers in the right arm, and it's actually served me quite a bit better than I would have expected. Of course, what works for one person may not work for another. A lot of it comes down to your natural playstyle inclination.
#7
Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:08 AM
1st: PPFLD == firesupport /= DPS
Easy formula but far from obvious to many ppl. A Mech with PPCs and large ACs or Gauss won't do much constant dmg and shouldn't draw much attention until its to late for the enemy.
So if your student is fine with supporting he will be fine with firesupport Mechs.
( Cataphract with dual Gauss and a PPC, Orion with dual PPC and a Gauss, etc)
2nd: Beeing the loud aggroing frontline Mech doesn't mean you don't do much except soaking dmg and dieing. DPS means you are a constant threat to your enemys. A BNC-3E ( just an example ) with dual ER large Laser and tripple AC5 can chainfire untill its ammo runns out and an enemy focused by such a monster WILL cry for help. Not doing high dmg spikes doesn't mean you are no threat.
Edit: Advertising a S-Hawk as newcomer friendly Mech is highly arguable.
The onesided nature and the poor field of view of the S-Hawk in addition to its ponderous movement moddel makes it a difficult to level mech since the appearance of the Clanmechs and the jumpjet nerf.
Edited by The Basilisk, 29 July 2014 - 02:12 AM.
#8
Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:17 AM
If he decides on the shadow hawk instead, ask him to get the 5m first. It comes with an XL engine and costs less to upgrade.
#9
Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:26 AM
I made it to resemble the trial shawk.
Oh, and for locations of weapon mounts (which as you pointed out, smurphy cannot help with) go to your mechlab, change the filter at the top to purchasable and scroll through the previews and rotating the models. It still doesn't tell you everything, but you get a more visual idea of how the mech will work.
Also, I keep adding to this, but both the jagers and phracts can do well with guass rifles. You should be seeing that a lot out around now actually.
Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 29 July 2014 - 02:23 AM.
#10
Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:57 AM
Tarriss Halcyon, on 29 July 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:
Well done. Nice to see someone not h*mping the meta. The dragon was supposed to be my favourite, but it got seriously gimped when translated from tabletop to MWO. Sad story.
#11
Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:02 AM
Since your friend used his cadet bonus also to test out different chassis.
I'd recommend the following.
Reroll for an new account.
Grab the 24 HRS of free premium time for new accounts.
Play all 25 cadet matches with the pest performing trailmech (i'd say missleboat for assist, assist = c-bills)
Only play pug, and no conquest.
that's pretty much the difference between 7-9M C-bills. and 12-15M C-bills.
#12
Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:53 AM
The Basilisk, on 29 July 2014 - 02:08 AM, said:
1st: PPFLD == firesupport /= DPS
Easy formula but far from obvious to many ppl. A Mech with PPCs and large ACs or Gauss won't do much constant dmg and shouldn't draw much attention until its to late for the enemy.
Actually, if you compare the weapon statistics, you'll notice that the highest dps AC is the AC20, followed by AC10. Same for the other weapon systems - highest alpha and highest dps always comes together.
No idea what PGI is doing, but they are clearly not using dps for balancing purposes anywhere. All they touch is damage, range and heat, then adjusting dps to match the alpha (in relation to the other weapons).
So actually, PPFLD does equal DPS. I was stunned when I saw that the first time.
Edited by Denolven, 29 July 2014 - 05:00 AM.
#13
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:01 AM
I've never owned Orions, and don't like the Trial one. Not enough punching power for my taste.
Here are two of my Shadowhawks though; let me know if you have any questions about the builds:
Twitch Showcases:
http://www.twitch.tv...arejk/c/4090080
http://www.twitch.tv...arejk/c/4059193
Twitch Showcases:
http://www.twitch.tv...arejk/c/4120326
http://www.twitch.tv...arejk/c/4090134
I don't have a screenshot for my recently rebuilt Shadowhawk (I own three). I'll try to get it posted up for you at some point in the next couple of days.
#14
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:14 AM
And on the trials/etc, have him use the testing grounds. And while he is visiting, since it sounds like you have several mechs, have him run some of your mechs on the testing grounds.
And whatever he does going forward, he should never sell a mech.
#15
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:27 AM
Tarriss Halcyon, on 29 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:
Playstyle is not the word you are looking for. A player has a playstyle. Mechs just have different preferences for different roles.
Try to find out what role he prefers, then have a look at the list in this thread: Which Mech you should buy.
If it's just about high alpha weaponry, then he can go with pretty much any mech, because that's a weapon trait, not a mech trait. even lights can use large weaponry (except Locust and Commando, which are totally screwed by the 10-heatsink-rule).
Edited by Denolven, 29 July 2014 - 05:31 AM.
#16
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:28 AM
If he wants pinpoint dakka fire suppression, have him also get a CTF 4X with an XL 255, 4xAC5.
If he wants to play around with a slightly more mixed build like a Shadowhawk, get him a 2X...or...if he wants to up his C-Bills as he goes, make his third 'Phract the Muromets. You can't go wrong with that, no matter HOW you kit it out.
#17
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:29 AM
Tarriss Halcyon, on 29 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:
I can summarize why in three words: "Group play." "ECM."
Tarriss Halcyon, on 29 July 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:
Hunchback (Shadowhawk without jump but FAR superior torso range and half the physical size), Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Blackjack.
Orion, Atlas, Victor, Battlemaster, Banshee, Cataphract.
Edited by Koniving, 29 July 2014 - 05:31 AM.
#18
Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:36 AM
The Victor CAN play like a fat Shadowhawk (it definitely USED to), and you can't go wrong with a brawling Cataphract or Atlas. The Cataphract and Banshee also do insane amounts of dakka REALLY well.
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