164 replies to this topic

[DemonRaziel]

Deathlike, on 31 July 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

I hate to say this, but the new module system only promotes 4 modules.

1) Radar Deprivation
2) Seismic Sensor (after mastery)
3) Airstrike
4) Artillery

So, technically, the system fits with the best modules. Everything else is "optional" (unless you're a missile boat that needs Target Decay).

^^ pretty much this ^^
The best modules will be taken, the consumables will be used if you can afford them (so the main goal for PGI is met), everything else will lay forgotten and catch dust. Role warfare, choices? Thrown out of the window.

Also, holy quack, I just noticed you have over 12k posts. What the heck, man? WHAT THE HECK?!

[Deathlike]

DemonRaziel, on 31 July 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

^^ pretty much this ^^
The best modules will be taken, the consumables will be used if you can afford them (so the main goal for PGI is met), everything else will lay forgotten and catch dust. Role warfare, choices? Thrown out of the window.

Also, holy quack, I just noticed you have over 12k posts. What the heck, man? WHAT THE HECK?!

Clearly, you haven't read into my tales of utter... disgust and/or feedback about this game from... Open Beta.

Don't worry about it.. you don't really want that notoriety.

[DemonRaziel]

Deathlike, on 31 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Clearly, you haven't read into my tales of utter... disgust and/or feedback about this game from... Open Beta.

Actually I'm sure I read most of it, liked quite a few of it too, since I'm here just as long as you are (a bit longer actually, but I wasn't as active on these forums early on)
Just never realized you've posted here 30 times as much as I have

[IraqiWalker]

DemonRaziel, on 31 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

300 times as much as I have

FTFY

[Sandpit]

DemonRaziel, on 31 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Actually I'm sure I read most of it, liked quite a few of it too, since I'm here just as long as you are (a bit longer actually, but I wasn't as active on these forums early on)
Just never realized you've posted here 30 times as much as I have

Death is the most sensible cynic here though

[Sandpit]

Crotch RockIt, on 29 July 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

What's the NuPaul joke? I must have missed it.


Makes me think of this "guy."

[Training Instructor]

So advanced seismic and radar deprivation are the only two mech modules people need to buy.

Advanced Zoom and Advanced Target decay for sniper and lrm loadouts, respectively.

All those other mech modules? No room for them, and none of them provide the benefit of the top 2, or the utility of the second 2 I listed.

I don't like the strike modules, and don't even really like the coolshot modules much. The strike modules make no sense, because you should be able to call in arty/air support with just your radio and your map. The coolshot module I don't like because I don't understand how it adds no weight, or doesn't provide some sort of permanent heat penalty for the rest of the match since you just flushed your overheated coolant right out of your mech.

[Zolaz]

With less slots you need fewer modules. That is why I have so many now sitting in my Inventory. The reason why I mentioned Bryan's name was because he had answered my previous thread saying that if something drastic was done to modules there would be a refund. If you think I outfitted all my mechs with modules, math must not be your strong suit.

[Zuesacoatl]

Noth, on 29 July 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with the consumables issue, I think they need to fix that. I do disagree with what enhances gameplay. I don't find being able to use pretty much all useful modules on a mech as enhancing gameplay. There is no choice, no reason to think. Choice is an important part of making gaming interesting. DId they go about it the wrong way? Possibly. This is also only a first step in the system, not the final product of the change. I just fail to see most the complaints about losing module slot as little more than "they took away my toy, now I have to choose."

You can add in that always in a game that will be in development for its life (any online game pushing content will be), you should expect that things will change in both good and bad way, ways you like or ways you hate. You can also expect the developers to make changes to fit what they want their design to be and not to what the forums cry for. Yes they will change some things that players complain about (see mastery slot now being a mech slot instead of a weapon slot, the quirks for the awesome and CN9s).

They do need to balance the modules more though.

How dare u bring logic in a forum thread......lawl. I have not read past this yet, but I am sure the obnoxious minority raged against it lol.

I find it funny that so many players who consider themselves Uber needed to use a crutch so bad in game that they now are worthless without it. If you are so good, then adjust our sit back and whine and let those who can adjust knock you off your elo pillar.

I like the change, and with the change to arty and air strikes, it will only get better.

[Mad Strike]

i liked the module revamp until i saw every !"#$ team spaming arty strikes all over and finishing a match without any option to defend yourselve or return fire ...just spaming that piece of crap of consumables they put on this game when told they wouldn't.....that's just no right.

Now i dont have a chance with my assaults since 3 ******* lights come to my mech , spam artys or air strikes on it and done. It's ok to limit your tactics with new rules , but when those rules don't let you PLAY with the mech you want regardless of weaponry or equipment then it's simple ******* WRONG.

Edited by strikebrch, 01 August 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

strikebrch, on 01 August 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

i liked the module revamp until i saw every !"#$ team spaming arty strikes all over and finishing a match without any option to defend yourselve or return fire ...just spaming that piece of crap of consumables they put on this game when told they wouldn't.....that's just no right.

Now i dont have a chance with my assaults since 3 ******* lights come to my mech , spam artys or air strikes on it and done. It's ok to limit your tactics with new rules , but when those rules don't let you PLAY with the mech you want regardless of weaponry or equipment then it's simple ******* WRONG.

Next patch we will only be able to only take one strike each. I take less strikes with the new module system personally.

[Lunaya]

I see no problem with it personally.

A Mastered Mech has 2 Weapon, 2 Mech, two Consumable Modules. I know some people use on some mechs 3 mech modules but a lot of Mechs got buffed by it, Stalkers being a big one I can think of. Sure, I mostly use Radar Deprivation and Siesmic, Advanced Target Decay in LRM mechs but that had not changed since when I had 3 module slots, I tended to carry 1-2 of the others and consumables because before and right now there is little reason not to carry consumables and that is the big flaw I see in the module system. Artillery and Air are still to good.

Though the change to the module system I like and when they limit to one strike per person I think it will get better and I have better things to complain about then a change to the module system which was for the better and not the worst. In my opinion this was one of the few things PGI has done right recently.

[DemonRaziel]

IraqiWalker, on 31 July 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

DemonRaziel, on 31 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

300 times as much as I have

FTFY

Nope, 30

I have ~400 posts, Deathlike has ~12.000.
400 x 10 = 4.000 x 3 = 12.000

Anyways, back on topic.

Even with the next patch, that some people mention as the saving grace, the spam will be there - slim chance that someone will be taking a Cool Shat and a UAV, so we're pretty much guaranteed a single strike on every 'Mech (that is willing to utilize his module slots). It's a matter of preference, but to me, even 12 strikes per team are far from an enjoyable gaming experience.

Not to mention the related CB sink this creates, coupled with our already lowered earnings compared to days of yore (past R&R, of course). Since you're pretty much expected to run 2 consumables, if you're not willing to gimp yourself and, subsequently your team.

Zuesacoatl, on 31 July 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

I find it funny that so many players who consider themselves Uber needed to use a crutch so bad in game that they now are worthless without it. If you are so good, then adjust our sit back and whine and let those who can adjust knock you off your elo pillar.

I don't think you really understand what the complaints are about. Removing an Advanced Zoom, or whatnot and putting Strikes in your newly created consumable slots is not that hard of an "adjustment". But it makes all but 4 (Radar Derp, Seismic, Zoom and Decay, the latter 2 used for snipers and LRM boats respectively) modules you have in your inventory completely wasted.

The only 'Mech in my 'Mech bays I would now call truly worthless, to paraphrase you, is my Jenner-K, since it's only advantage over the -D was stripped from him. My Raven-3L also got hit by it, but it's somewhat less affected (I can live without the hill climb module) and far from worthless. It's not like they removed its ECM, or made it less powerful.

[Zuesacoatl]

DemonRaziel, on 01 August 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

It's not like they removed its ECM, or made it less powerful.

You hit the nail on the head right there. Modules are nice, a certain combination of modules on certain mechs is even nicer, but if you depend on those things to make a mech viable for you, than you really are not as good as you state you are (not you specifically, anyone that says their mech is broken.) I understand that certain modules made certain mechs slightly more appealing, but not having them does not make them broken in all honesty. It is the same mech, the only thing gone is the crutch some players needed to use it. And yes, modules for people who say their mechs are now broken were nothing more than a crutch for those players.

You can adjust, so a mech has fewer slots, you have to decide what modules you really want, and does it have to be those four? No, though they are on the top of the charts, you can still choose another one if you feel it will suit your play style better. Just because a forum warrior comes on here and says that these modules are tops and anything else is just noob fodder does not make them correct. I have seen some people take shots across the map as if they used advanced zoom and scored hits time and again in the same location, not aimbotting, you can tell the diff when you watch them. Some people have a creepy way with tactics that they watch the field and instinctively know where the enemy will be, why use wall hack for them. I use different modules, and in some mechs, take two different coolshots to keep me in the fight longer, do more certain dmg that way, and avoid the strikes that I cannot use in every match because the perfect opportunity does not arise, but I can keep my dmg output up with the coolshots.

Adjust, that is all I can say, and if players cannot play because their crutch or training wheels are gone, than more fodder for those of us who can adapt.

Edited by Zuesacoatl, 01 August 2014 - 03:55 AM.

[Mizore]

Training Instructor, on 31 July 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

So advanced seismic and radar deprivation are the only two mech modules people need to buy.

Advanced Zoom and Advanced Target decay for sniper and lrm loadouts, respectively.

All those other mech modules? No room for them, and none of them provide the benefit of the top 2, or the utility of the second 2 I listed.

Exactly this!

PGI needs to do an overhaul of the whole module system.

It is ok, if we only can pick few modules, but it should really matter if you take one module or another.
Modules should provide unique abilities or bonuses that really makes a difference.

For example seismic sensors:
A super cool module that gives you a special ability, excelent for recon purposes! This is how a typical module should be!

But there are plenty examples how modules should not be, for example:
- sensor range:
The additional range (also to get a lock on ECM-mechs) is really nice and this would also be a excellent recon module, but it's way to easy countered by ECM, so the advantage you get is so negligible, that it really doesn't matter, if you take this module or not.
- hill climb/speed retention/airstrike accuray/artillery accuray/360 target retention/capture accelerator:
Gives only a very very tiny bonus that can be used only very rarely... very bad module!
- target decay:
Not that bad for LRMs, but it still could use a little buff/more bonuses. For example more accuray.
- advanced zoom:
Not that bad for snipers, but could also use a little buff/more bonuses. For example more damage/higher crit chance while in zoom mode.
- shock absorbance:
Provides only small bonus that can be used rarely. Needs a buff/more bonuses. For example improved JJ efficiency, jumping... pardon, "hovering" higher and further.
- radar deprivation:
Quite useful (if there are LRMs!), but still could need some slight bonus.

Edited by Mizore, 01 August 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

PGI needs to do an overhaul of the whole module system.

They need to divide mech modules and module slots into subcategories like: defense, sensor, mobility, support, etc... a module should only be useable in a slot that matches its type (or a universal slot).

Mechs should have 1-2 mech module slots of various categories in addition to 1-2 weapon slots and 2 consumable slots. Mastery of a mech would also give a universal module slot that any module could go in. Most mediums would also get a bonus universal slot because mediums are supposed to be the most versatile weight class.

Assaults/Heavies: focus mostly on weapon/defense/support modules
Mediums: get a bonus universal slot and can use the best combinations of modules
Lights: focus mostly on weapon/sensor/mobility modules.

Additionally each mech could have an "affinity" with a particular module and gain minor bonus quirks whenever that module is equipped. That would help encourage some of the lesser used modules get used more often.

For example the Atlas might have affinity with 360 target retention (since the Atlas had rear firing weapons in tabletop). If the Atlas has the 360 target retention module equipped it might gain a quirk that increases its sensor range and detailed target info speed by 10% and 20% respectively.

The potential for a system like this is that every single mech could have different module slots. And the "best" modules would differ from mech to mech. It would also be the first step in giving us role warfare.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 August 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

Next patch we will only be able to only take one strike each. I take less strikes with the new module system personally.

That will be better.

It's still a likely 12 strikes per side though, on builds that might have not used them previously but do now because of the dedicated slots.

In my DW in group queue, I can usually count on at least 2 to 4 Strikes being directly targeted at me.

It gets old very fast.

[Khobai]

Quote

It's still a likely 12 strikes per side though, on builds that might have not used them previously but do now because of the dedicated slots.

clan mechs wont be able to use artillery strikes at all though and air strikes arnt nearly as powerful.

Because clan mechs cant use artillery and many wont want to use airstrikes, youre unlikely to see 12 strikes per side.

[stjobe]

Khobai, on 01 August 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

clan mechs wont be able to use artillery strikes at all though and air strikes arnt nearly as powerful.

Because clan mechs cant use artillery and many wont want to use airstrikes, youre unlikely to see 12 strikes per side.

No, Paul vetoed that decision; both IS and Clan will be able to use both air and arty, but only one at a time.

Lore means nothing to these guys. There's apparently no "need to remove [artillery strike] completely for the Clans"...

[Khobai]

hmm so airstrikes are completely useless now?

i thought it was smart to disallow clans from using artillery. because it meant airstrikes would still get used.

but if you have both, and only allow one, then airstrikes will never get used.

Edited by Khobai, 01 August 2014 - 05:47 AM.