24 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Even if they reduce max air/arty strikes from 48 per match to 24, that's still 16 strikes too many. As far as I can tell, the only way to avoid the air/arty spam enabled by the new Module system is FREE private matches where everyone agrees before the match begins to NOT use any consumables. My question is: is anyone already doing this?

[Sandpit]

Triordinant, on 31 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Even if they reduce max air/arty strikes from 48 per match to 24, that's still 16 strikes too many. As far as I can tell, the only way to avoid the air/arty spam enabled by the new Module system is FREE private matches where everyone agrees before the match begins to NOT use any consumables. My question is: is anyone already doing this?

I'd check out the leagues section, I'm sure there are. I'm glad someone is FINALLY talking about using private matches for what they were intended for!

[Triordinant]

Sandpit, on 31 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

I'd check out the leagues section, I'm sure there are. I'm glad someone is FINALLY talking about using private matches for what they were intended for!

...and it wouldn't matter that you don't earn cbills because you're not spending cbills (on consumables) either so you can play for the love of the game and camaraderie.

[Roadkill]

1) Great suggestion, I hope someone does it.
2) Technically, that's more of a work-around rather than a solution. It doesn't solve the problem, it just avoids it.

[Sandpit]

Roadkill, on 31 July 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

1) Great suggestion, I hope someone does it.
2) Technically, that's more of a work-around rather than a solution. It doesn't solve the problem, it just avoids it.

well then you're getting into the old "arty/air is op" argument and I don't think that would help this thread get some people interested in this involved.

[wwiiogre]

According to Bryan last night on ngng podcast and the posts later yesterday.

Clan will only be allowed air strikes and IS will only be allowed one each of arty/air.

I may have got that wrong. But once again that is still way to many arty/air in a company vs company game. Especially since those assets are not paid for.

I would say give the other team a 5 ton advantage per air/arty strike taken.

Meaning if your team has 20 air/arty strikes, the matchmaker should give the other team a 100 ton advantage in overall tonnage.

Would be a handicap system that punishes the use off map assets by giving the other team usable on map assets.

Chris

[Triordinant]

Roadkill, on 31 July 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Technically, that's more of a work-around rather than a solution. It doesn't solve the problem, it just avoids it.

Correct. But the real solution would have to come from PGI and we have no idea how long that would take.

[Wolfways]

I don't know how arty/air strikes worked in BT/TT but i would have thought something like that would have been an ability of the command module.

[Willard Phule]

wwiiogre, on 31 July 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

According to Bryan last night on ngng podcast and the posts later yesterday.

Clan will only be allowed air strikes and IS will only be allowed one each of arty/air.

I may have got that wrong. But once again that is still way to many arty/air in a company vs company game. Especially since those assets are not paid for.

I would say give the other team a 5 ton advantage per air/arty strike taken.

Meaning if your team has 20 air/arty strikes, the matchmaker should give the other team a 100 ton advantage in overall tonnage.

Would be a handicap system that punishes the use off map assets by giving the other team usable on map assets.

Chris

.....and out comes the nerf bat.

Nevermind that the Clans have Omnis that are specifically built around the Arrow IV artillery system.

Whatever. Wouldn't be MW:O without something getting pounded flat by the nerf bat on a regular basis.

[Triordinant]

Wolfways, on 31 July 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

I don't know how arty/air strikes worked in BT/TT but i would have thought something like that would have been an ability of the command module.

Arty/air strikes are optional in Battletech. The only reason they're in MWO is so people will spend cbills on consumables and when they run low they might pay real money to get more cbills through MC.

[Sandpit]

Wolfways, on 31 July 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

I don't know how arty/air strikes worked in BT/TT but i would have thought something like that would have been an ability of the command module.

Nope

They worked like any other weapon. You rolled hit locations, it hit a target area and each shot had a chance to hit a different location almost identical to MWO version. The rules regarding LoS and indirect fire were a bit different though

[Anyone00]

Maybe have a communications truck (I don't have access right now to sarna to look up an appropriate one) in the team spawn areas that are required to stay alive to call in air and artillery.

EDIT: O.K. there are generic Command Vans and Mobile HQs. Also the heavier Daimyo HQ for the Draconis Combine.

Edited by Anyone00, 31 July 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[Sandpit]

Anyone00, on 31 July 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Maybe have a communications truck (I don't have access right now to sarna to look up an appropriate one) in the team spawn areas that are required to stay alive to call in air and artillery.

something like that would be an interesting addition to certain game modes and gives an actual objective. I wouldn't want it to be the "default" game mode but it would be nice to see stuff like this added in simply to have more objectives that don't revolve around shooting the other guy all the time or standing on a spot for 30 seconds.

[Clit Beastwood]

Triordinant, on 31 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Even if they reduce max air/arty strikes from 48 per match to 24, that's still 16 strikes too many. As far as I can tell, the only way to avoid the air/arty spam enabled by the new Module system is FREE private matches where everyone agrees before the match begins to NOT use any consumables. My question is: is anyone already doing this?

You can usually counter arty/air by pushing W and A or W and D at the same time.

[Biglead]

Double the price of Airstrikes and Artillery, then give us cheap consumable Attack Choppers and Tanks.

[Willard Phule]

Fierostetz, on 31 July 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

You can usually counter arty/air by pushing W and A or W and D at the same time.

What?!?!

You mean standing still out in the open, fixating on a single target is bad? I thought they covered that in the tutorial....

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 31 July 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

.....and out comes the nerf bat.

Nevermind that the Clans have Omnis that are specifically built around the Arrow IV artillery system.

Whatever. Wouldn't be MW:O without something getting pounded flat by the nerf bat on a regular basis.

I know of one Clan Wolf Omni with Arrow4... What other ones have It?

[wwiiogre]

Arty other than arrow four missile system was always indirect and HE, meaning it hit a hex, one 30m by 30m hex, big arty hit that hex and all six hexes around it but at very little damage.

All damage did not randomly hit a mech, it actually only ever hit the legs.

The arty that PGI uses in MWO is the equivalent of a regimental artillery battery firing for effect covering a huge area, and also hitting individual mech spots, which never happened.

In perspective, one arty strike like what MWO uses is the same as buying a lance of mechs, which means in table top to use that arty strike you had to leave 4 mechs behind because of the cost of the arty. But you got to use the arty the entire game. But arty strikes had flight time, which MWO does by using recycle times.

As for air strikes, the same thing is true. An aero mech could be bought and used just like a regular mech. And it had ammo and heat, and took damage. The problem with MWO's implementation is its basically free. Every player can use regimental arty/air assets like they own a merc corps and not just the 12 mech company we play with.

Its horrific. The worst part is damage done by your arty/air strike gives you real damage done on the end board and xp and gxp. Which is a very dumb idea. Its pay to win especially in the tournaments that add up damage. Talk about tipping the scales.

How do you fix arty/air. Go back and read the original role warfare write up by PGI. The Command Console was going to be required to call in arty/air as it should be. A commander should be the only one able to call in arty/air. It should be a once a game each situation and when used should cost your team a 5 ton advantage each use.

Bring arty/air, if other team does not, they get 10 tons in matchmaker or whatever is found to be even.

The current arty/air spam is ridiculous. I see 12 plus a game now in solo que. In team que its just plain silly.

But, like Bryan said on ngng podcast last night. They were tracking the sales of consumables and saw an immediate jump. Which means PGI was tracking cash flow and not worried about game design. Once again a very sad state of affairs.

Chris

[Joseph Mallan]

Actually Ogre it hit the splash Hex for 20-25 and each hex radius out lowered by 5-10 points. So 3 hex Radius max. Unless you fired more than one Piece per round..

[wwiiogre]

Depends on the arty piece. Some did 5 per hex, one hex, some did 10 per hex and then 5 each adjacent hex, some did more. But all damage was done to legs. Randomly rolled for left or right per 5 pts of damage.

You had to spot for it. Then a smoke round would hit and depending on which rules or home rules you used it could scatter. It could also have serious flight time. Depending how many map boards away your arty was situated.

What MWO uses is nothing like anything used in Battle Tech ever. The only way it could be done this way is to have an 8 or 12 gun battery of long tom self propelled arty pieces. Each of which cost more than most light and some medium mechs. So for 40,000 cbills. You get the equivalent of firepower worth the tonnage of a company of light mechs.

Sorry, this is ridiculous and way over powered for a 12 vs 12 company sized game.

The only reason there is arty/air in MWO is not for gameplay it is a purely cash flow decision. The bump to where everyone now has 2 consumable slots for modules is and only ever was a cash flow decision. To the detriment of the game play.

In BT to spot for arty you actually had to make a to hit roll that was effected by your movement speed and the distance to the target hex. So spotting for arty really far away, like we do so easily in MWO was impossible in table top. Getting a head kill with an arty strike, impossible in BT, normal in MWO. Crippling multiple mechs or killing them easy in MWO, impossible in BT with arty/air.

Current arty/air module use and its implementation is an aberration and has no place in a simulation of BT. Period. It is merely a convenient way for pay to win and meta players to boost their damage output scores and is being so spammed at this moment its silly.

Watched so many arty/air strikes over the last few days. Really no fun to play. The worst part is new players don't have a clue, and the old players are just spamming them and killing them nearly instantly with the meta.

But, hey PGI is implementing this system for a reason. Cash Flow. Anything else is long term and will be put in with CW and role warfare. You know that vapor ware that has been promised us for two years now. But, we get an implementation that is really only one thing. Pay to win, cash flow and as Bryan said on ngng, we saw an immediate increase in consumable sales.

How would he know that, unless he was watching for it. Why would he watch for it, unless he planned it. Just saying.

Chris