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Meta Direwolfs - How Do You Beat Them?

Direwolf meta

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#21 Wintersdark

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:29 AM

View PostFlapdrol, on 02 August 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

there's no reliable way to beat them in a 1v1, hope your team focusses him down I guess.


I'll happily take one of my Mediums - any of them - against a Direwolf. Particularly 6xUAC direwolves, which are the worst of the major Direwolf builds. Most of my heavies, too - basically, anything that's moderately fast and agile, and particlarly anything with jump jets.

I'd be much less inclined to do that in a "1v1 Solaris Arena Style Match" but in normal battle, sure. Wait for him to focus on a target, even if nobody else is firing at him. If you get the jump on the Direwolf, you can use your mobility and (if necessary) hit and run tactics.

Seriously speaking, I have no issues whatsoever dealing with Direwolves. I wish I could get Direwolf kill stickers for my Stormcrows ;)

As to the arms:

With the exception of the Nova, anyone shooting for Clan arms is Doing It Wrong. You never want to aim for the arms. Even with the nova, I'd prefer to take the side or better yet center torso, but Nova arms are such easy targets.

This is because the Torso has comparable armor, and loss of both side torsos will kill the mech. Further, typical direwolves have substantial weaponry in their torsos as well. Why not bring the Direwolf closer to death, rather than just removing a quarter of their firepower?

This applies for almost every mech. Actively aiming for arms is very rarely a good idea.

View PostKhobai, on 04 August 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

honestly the 6 uac direwolf isnt even the scariest build. because uacs are laughable weapons... theyre like ammo using lasers that jam randomly.

the scariest direwolf builds are the ones using dual gauss or five/six lb5xs which do entirely frontloaded damage.
LBX's are meh, though, due to the spread of damage. Unless they are up close. 6xLBX Direwolves in a cave or close quarters will ruin your day, no matter what you're piloting.

But yeah, Dual Gauss - not only dual gauss+dual PPC though. The 2x2 Direwhale only does 50 point alpha's. They're dangerous, without a doubt, but that's like throwing marshmallows compared to what other Dual Gauss builds can do.

Quote

Thats a waste. Go for the side torsos to remove the guns. The arms generally have the same amount of armor as the side torsos so you might as well just take out the side torsos instead. But even missing an arm a direwolf still has the same firepower as most atlases. Disarming them is not always the best option... it all depends on the situation.
And here I should have read the rest of the thread before replying :P

#22 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:38 AM

It really depends on the mech, and geography.

In a light mech, just squirrel around and get behind them. I've killed DWFs in my locust without receiving a single point of damage that wasn't from me bumping into them at high speed.

If you have JJs, squirrel around, get behind them, or jump on top of them and use your arm mounted lasers to burn them to death (most hilarious kill with an Ember against a 6xUAC5 DWF in the test server, I just sat on top of it and killed it).

If you are in a medium, you really shouldn't be seen by them, either use long range weapons, or hit them from the side. You can get behind them, and even with the elite bonus they still won't be able to get to you. Provided you can control your throttle and properly position yourself.

in heavies, just use long range weapons, if you are a brawler, it's the same scenario, as above, don't let them see you until you're within 200 meters, and always come from the side.

Assaults are similar to the heavies scenario, except they're even slower.

Your best weapon is the ability to torso twist.


DWFs are devastating in a stare down contest, they love tunnels where they have some long fields of fire, with no place to run for their targets. However, in an open location, they are easy to take on 1v1 by most weight classes, provided you can get close, and start circle strafing them. Their arms are almost always locked (definitely for the 6xUAC5 DWFs), so stepping to the side can really mess with them.

My Protector got shredded by one of them recently, I lost my AC20 early, it was canyon network, and all I had to hide behind was the leg of the bridge. So I let the kill-hungry direwolf come close. used my MLs and SRM6s in one good alpha to crack one of it's own side torsos before the rest of my mech started evaporating. My teammates the finished the wounded wolf right as I died. Using AC20s to pop their CTs is a good way to really lay the hurt on them, If you can get to their side, and take out that Side torso closest to you, you can safely stay super close and never fear retaliation.

#23 990Dreams

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:39 AM

You could try this.

#24 Wintersdark

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:43 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:


If you have JJs, squirrel around, get behind them, or jump on top of them and use your arm mounted lasers to burn them to death (most hilarious kill with an Ember against a 6xUAC5 DWF in the test server, I just sat on top of it and killed it).


Even if you don't have JJ's, do your best to utilize elevation differences. Get well below or above them. Those 4 ballistics in the side torsos (or whatever else, but the OP specified 6xUAC Direwolves) can't aim very high. I get kills on Direwolves on Forest Colony and Canyons all the time by running up hills beside them and firing down on that huge, square top surface they've got. Easy to hit the CT, or at least rip off side torsos.

Elevation differences make it easy to negate a large amount of their weaponry.

View PostDavidHurricane, on 04 August 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

You could try this.


How is piloting a really bad Direwolf build going to help?

#25 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:45 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 04 August 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

But yeah, Dual Gauss - not only dual gauss+dual PPC though. The 2x2 Direwhale only does 50 point alpha's. They're dangerous, without a doubt, but that's like throwing marshmallows compared to what other Dual Gauss builds can do.


2xGauss 2xERLL 6xERML + TC2 in the CT. Lots of burn time, but if you're within 700 meters of me, your life is going to be hell if you stand still.

94.50 firepower, the trade off, is that it's on a DWF, I have had matches that literally ended with me not getting to the fight in time to do anything.

View PostDavidHurricane, on 04 August 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

You could try this.

You needed to click the save button. We're getting an empty build.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 04 August 2014 - 08:46 AM.


#26 990Dreams

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:51 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

You needed to click the save button. We're getting an empty build.

View PostWintersdark, on 04 August 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

How is piloting a really bad Direwolf build going to help?


Could've sworn I hit save.

This build is different than the original, but worth a shot.

Apx. what I did originally.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 04 August 2014 - 08:53 AM.


#27 Wintersdark

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:56 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:



2xGauss 2xERLL 6xERML + TC2 in the CT. Lots of burn time, but if you're within 700 meters of me, your life is going to be hell if you stand still.

94.50 firepower, the trade off, is that it's on a DWF, I have had matches that literally ended with me not getting to the fight in time to do anything.

You needed to click the save button. We're getting an empty build.

I got 2 UAC20, 2 LRM10, AMS and a ridiculous amount of ammo - a really weak build; but maybe it didn't load right?

But yeah, that's the direwolf issue: You're so slow, it's easy to simply get to your team too late. While it's awesome to wade into a firefight in progress with an untouched Direwolf, a couple seconds too late and you're staring down the whole enemy team by yourself.

Or, teams decide to circle-race, and you're basically left to face the enemy team by yourself (or with however many other direwolves your team has.)

There are lots of mechs than can survive being outnumbered, simply by dint of being fast/agile/jumpy enough to get clear. An outnumbered Direwolf is dead, unless it's attackers are really, really bad.

View PostDavidHurricane, on 04 August 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:




Could've sworn I hit save.

This build is different than the original, but worth a shot.

Apx. what I did originally.

6 ERLL? Why so many? You're going to find yourself heat capped practically instantly, so between the threat of ghost heat and cycle times, you've got more ERLL's than you can use.

If it was JUST 6ERLL and lots of heat sinks, sure, but... That's a lot of weaponry you can't use.

Edited by Wintersdark, 04 August 2014 - 08:58 AM.


#28 Bilbo

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostKhobai, on 04 August 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

...
Thats a waste. Go for the side torsos to remove the guns. The arms generally have the same amount of armor as the side torsos so you might as well just take out the side torsos instead. But even missing an arm a direwolf still has the same firepower as most atlases. Disarming them is not always the best option... it all depends on the situation.

Speaking as an Atlas pilot. That's still a waste. By the time you neuter it you could have cored it anyway. Shooting it in the face while spreading their damage will get you the kill while you should be relatively well off after the engagement. Any time spent not hitting the CT is wasted time.

#29 Cruxs

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:21 AM

If you are in a fast maneuverable Mech go for the back. If you are in a slower Mech lots of SRM's to the CT, Dire Wolfs Seem to have a large CT most of your missiles will connect specifically if you have Artimus at 200 to 270 meters. Bait him, pop out throw a salvo get to cover make him think you are going to jump out let him fire then pop out and throw another salvo he will be cored in no time. Reposition do it again.

#30 SethAbercromby

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:14 AM

Since this has derailed into a discussion about DWF builds, this is what I have planned for when I hopefully have enough cash soon enough to upgrade my package.

It's probably the furthest away from Meta as most people wold reasonably go, but this one would have an immense staying power and would circumvent most problems the Meta DWFs have at variing ranges. While LRMs could be used for indriect fire, they'd be much more effective if used in tandem with the ERMLas and LPL to generate a lot of streamed damage. However, even with a generous amount of heat sinks, does this thing run incredibly hot, so heat control is required.

If anyone wants to put this beat to the test, I'd love to hear the results.


Back to topic:
Most Meta Direwolves try to use the FLDPP Sniper Meta, but the DWF is simply not compatible with that at all. It lacks the speed to be where it counts and when someone gets too close for comfort, the long cycle times make is very difficult for it to defend itself. Dakka Wolves are dangerous at short range if used correctly and can prevent the enemy from catching their breath when used for projectile spam rather than burst damage. However, these usually suffer at long range and their slow speed makes them vulnerable to sniping.

#31 Lily from animove

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:38 AM

View PostTim East, on 04 August 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

What? 1v1 is practically the only way to beat them. If they have friends around you'll get ganked by slowing down to shadow speeds for that thing. If he's well and truly alone, you can just plant your mech on his ass like some kind of horribly lethal fly, or to be more accurate, Locust, and waste his rear torso. Above poster is right. Always stalk mechs by sticking to their leg rear, not their torso rear. Usually doesn't take too many salvos to ruin an assault with small pulse lasers. Everybody front-loads armor like crazy to offset the cost of eating meta burst damage strikes. Which sort of makes one wonder about the opportunity cost involved with rear armor.

I mean, if each point of rear armor is a point not-front armor, and each person always front-loads all but about 10 or so of that armor, is front armor really so much better than rear? Is a given point of front armor 4-6 or more times better than a point of rear armor, and what does that say about the game itself? I think it says that we expect to be attacked from the front far more often than from the rear, which makes me question the viability of stealth a little bit perhaps. I don't know, just random rambling thoughts about how I feel the current meta might be impacting tactics. Maybe I'll make a coherent argument another time.


they have laods of backarmor, I guess 40? at least I need min 2 Volley of my NOVa (Either ERML, or ERSL) to get off their back armor, even with 10% rear center Torso hits.

#32 JigglyMoobs

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:22 AM

Guys, this is how you kill a direwolf:

http://www.youtube.c...JpKnXM#t=01m10s

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 05 August 2014 - 02:29 AM.


#33 Tim East

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:10 AM

I almost never run into anything with more than 17 back armor, and when I do it's nowhere near 40. Except for an Awesome yesterday. I got the feeling that guy split his armor something like half and half, because I jammed on his back while he ran in a surprisingly fast circle for a good 4 salvos and didn't even break the shell. Not really sure what to make of that.

#34 SethAbercromby

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:22 AM

View PostTim East, on 05 August 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

I almost never run into anything with more than 17 back armor, and when I do it's nowhere near 40. Except for an Awesome yesterday. I got the feeling that guy split his armor something like half and half, because I jammed on his back while he ran in a surprisingly fast circle for a good 4 salvos and didn't even break the shell. Not really sure what to make of that.

Sometimes the most crazy people strike pure genuius. Sometimes it's just weird.

Assaults usually pack about 20 into the STs and 28 into the CT with STD engines. With XLs you either see much more frontloaded armor because they assume that with their increased mobility, it'd be more difficult to get behind them or alternatively even more armor padded into the back to not get ripped apart by the first light that does find a way behind them, depending on the player and what they intend to use the 'Mech for.

#35 Khobai

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:22 AM

Quote

LBX's are meh, though, due to the spread of damage


Keep telling yourself that. But the reality is LB5Xs have a decent spread, decent range, a fast rate of fire, and the damage is entirely frontloaded.

Posted Image

#36 Mazzyplz

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:26 AM

View PostBilbo, on 04 August 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

If you are in an assault that is built for brawling, you shoot it in the face, repeatedly, while twisting between shots to distribute damage. Shooting at it's arms just gives him that much more time to use all that firepower.



yep this works even in my awesome, i usually shoot the top of their torso which sticks out and that is my strategy for dealing with them, but sometimes i have to trade or i find one alone and ihave to try and take it out for the good of my team, torso twisting works except for the dual gauss and ppc one. and the range on the 7large laser dire wolf is ridiculous!
NEVER chain fire your weaps with the dire wolf, big alpha and run preferably or big alpha and twist


ps. there is no way to beat them in a tunnel. 0. only maybe an atlas who twists perfectly will get the best of him or an ace misery pilot - you best get out of tunnel FAST if you see a dire wolf, same is true for city streets - absolute death trap, try and hit from the side and disarm it. i shoot their side torso if they show it, i won't get picky about it just dont waste your shots on the arms and dont shoot the legs unless they are orange and the rest is yellow


View PostTim East, on 05 August 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

I almost never run into anything with more than 17 back armor, and when I do it's nowhere near 40. Except for an Awesome yesterday. I got the feeling that guy split his armor something like half and half, because I jammed on his back while he ran in a surprisingly fast circle for a good 4 salvos and didn't even break the shell. Not really sure what to make of that.


LOL must be the stock aws

Edited by Mazzyplz, 05 August 2014 - 04:30 AM.


#37 Koniving

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:36 AM

View PostArc Viper, on 31 July 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

How do you beat meta dire wolves?

Methods:
1) Stand behind them in a light mech.
2) Banshee 3-E. Get one. 3 AC/5s + 1 ER PPC or 2 UAC/5s + 2 AC/2s. You'll make him more inaccurate than he'll make you; except yours will shake his goddamn world and kill him faster.
3) Go for legs.
4) Go for arms.
5) Twin AC/20 to the head. Instant kill.
6) Twin PPC + Gauss rifle to the head. Instant kill.
7) Twin PPC + AC/10 to the head. Instant kill.
8) Twin PPC + AC/20 to the head. Instant kill.
9) Twin PPC + twin AC/5 to the head. Instant kill.
10) 8 Medium Lasers to the head. Tricky, but kills.
11) 9 SPL to the head. Very tricky and requires a second shot but kills better than medium lasers. Just speed on by and peg and run then speed back again.
12) Leg then airstrike from front. Even better if you get him to look up.
13) Another Dire Wolf. Seriously you'll get these to glue to each other.
14) Narc and LRM.
15) Just LRM.
16) SRMs to the backside. Inner Sphere ones. The Clan ones are worthless in comparison.
17) Large Pulse Lasers. 4 LPL = minimal ghost heat and 42.4 damage in 0.6 seconds. You'll kill ANY mech just by brushing this against their cockpit.

Enjoy.

#38 Bilbo

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:53 AM

View PostMazzyplz, on 05 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:




yep this works even in my awesome, i usually shoot the top of their torso which sticks out and that is my strategy for dealing with them, but sometimes i have to trade or i find one alone and ihave to try and take it out for the good of my team, torso twisting works except for the dual gauss and ppc one. and the range on the 7large laser dire wolf is ridiculous!
NEVER chain fire your weaps with the dire wolf, big alpha and run preferably or big alpha and twist


ps. there is no way to beat them in a tunnel. 0. only maybe an atlas who twists perfectly will get the best of him or an ace misery pilot - you best get out of tunnel FAST if you see a dire wolf, same is true for city streets - absolute death trap, try and hit from the side and disarm it. i shoot their side torso if they show it, i won't get picky about it just dont waste your shots on the arms and dont shoot the legs unless they are orange and the rest is yellow




LOL must be the stock aws

Huh. Beat one last night in the tunnel. If you can beat it on open ground you can beat it in the tunnel. Same rules apply.

#39 VirtualSmitty

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:02 AM

Move laterally. Daishis are really no problem, they hurt if you stare them down, but otherwise I find they are just a big slow target.

#40 IraqiWalker

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:22 AM

View PostMazzyplz, on 05 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

ps. there is no way to beat them in a tunnel. 0. only maybe an atlas who twists perfectly will get the best of him or an ace misery pilot - you best get out of tunnel FAST if you see a dire wolf, same is true for city streets - absolute death trap, try and hit from the side and disarm it. i shoot their side torso if they show it, i won't get picky about it just dont waste your shots on the arms and dont shoot the legs unless they are orange and the rest is yellow


You are right about that part. The Atlas brawler build with AC20 SRM6s and MLs is the one that stands the best chance against most DWF builds in a tunnel.


City streets are actually where you want to fight them. As long as you don't stay on the same street as them. They literally get out-maneuvered by an atlas in there. You can pull disappearing acts on them, and keep hitting from the sides. My firestarter (K with full MLs) had a field day with a DWF-B yesterday on Crimson strait. We were the last two alive, and he couldn't really do much about it. I kept him in the A2-A4 B2-B4 urban area, and made his life a living nightmare. Once he realized that trying to chase me is getting him killed, he backed himself up against a building. So I went and started capping his base. When he realized what was going on, he pushed towards me, but I left cap and started a repeat performance of the previous 2 minutes. However, this time he decided to push to base to make sure I engage him there. BIG MISTAKE. I glued myself to his back (ran behind a building, jumped over it, and jumped behind him), and cored out his rear CT.

It was an intense fight, and it felt like a real battle between mechs.





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