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Hot-Fix 2: 8-Aug-2014 Feedback


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#21 Graywalker79

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:34 AM

The C-ER-LL now got some really bad Ghostheat. 3 C ER LLs now got the Heat of 19,44 (and only C ER LLs; Pulse is still at 4,03). PLS take a look at that. That cant be right. And i dont mean to rise other Ghostheats too. :D

Edited by Graywalker79, 09 August 2014 - 01:35 AM.


#22 Desintegrator

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:36 AM

The Devs never cared about what the Community said - you should know that !

That was so in 2012, then in 2013, now in 2014 and it will be in 2015 too...

The patch is great -> dont say something else !

The only thing i worry about is, what happens to the Warhawk Pilots out there ??

They spend 240$ to get a Warhawk Prime killing machine with 4 ER-PPCs and this build is completely f***** now.

Sorry you Warhawk pilots - but this is the case. Hopefully you learn your lessons for the next big sale...

#23 Sandslice

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:50 AM

I can report on the PPC speed-nerf, as two of my more frequent rides (including in the Steiner Challenge) are GRF-1N and AWS-8Q. Though I didn't pull out my Ryokens, I use the Trial Cataphract in a loosely similar way, so I can give feedback there too.

-On the PPC nerf: I noticed it more while ducking away from PPCs during peek-and-LOS-lurming, that it was easier to avoid PPCs from Citadel's inner ramp to the dock. Firing them with the extra lead-time is something I'm still adjusting to, but I really do think that it's going to be a matter of adjusting.

If you're considering any sort of knob-turning, create PPC Speed Module first, and use *that* to dial the knob. :D



-On the ERLL nerfs: When sniping, the extra burn-time could give opponents time to react and start shooting back.

The big concern will be using it in furball range. In one of my last matches tonight, I took the tCTF into handshake range with an AC/20 Jager - and thanks to a combination of precise, exploiting the Jager's weaker twisting discipline, and someone kill-securing my prize for me, I came out on top - though not by much, to be sure.

I'll tell you now. If I'd been in a Ryoken, Thor, or Madcat with a similar 2 ERLL, 2 (ER)ML, 1 LB-X... and attempted such a crazy attack, I would have been turned inside out easily. The ERLL is not a useful close-up weapon now, though it still appears worthwhile for sniping from what I saw.

#24 Loganauer

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 02:59 AM

The IS and Clans aren't meant to be balanced 1:1, and the more you try to balance them by screwing the clans the more you piss people off...the whole point of the lore and the clans existing was because they had superior technology. Why would they develop technology to be completely different if it's not meant to be superior and outperform IS tech? They may as well use the same goddamn technology if it's supposed to be balanced as the same. The IS is meant to have more mechs and pilots than the clans. You need to create gamemodes where it's IS vs. Clans and balance them a binary to a company; 10 v 12. For mixed matches, implement a battle value system. Perhaps include AI bots for infantry/turrets/tanks/aerospace fighters in greater numbers for IS to help with the balancing. The clans have FAR fewer pilots/soldiers and resources than the IS but better technology. The game makes no sense played any other way. If you weren't ready to implement it that way, you should have set the timeline sooner so it was just inner sphere.

I just hope you'll change how the clans are balanced when community warfare comes out and revert clantech back to tabletop values or close. It'll make up for everything else and people will forget all previous grievances if it ever comes out and is implemented well, I know that for sure. Keeping it as it is now until you figure out how to do that? It's fine, whatever. As long as it's done right in the not-too-distant future.

*edit* if you want to nerf assaults/heavies but not lights/mediums, why not use design quirks more for the ones that are played too much and are imbalanced? If I recall, it was supposed to take more skill to pilot mechs the heavier they were, while in this game the reverse seems to be true. Or perhaps requiring Gxp to unlock heavier mechs, or perhaps adding a xp/cbill bonus when the queue requires more lights/mediums.

Edited by Loganauer, 09 August 2014 - 04:05 AM.


#25 Herr Vorragend

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:56 AM

Okay, after taking part in mostly now closed threads here my conclusion:

It´s a fail!

The 2secs beam time ist ridiculous. You also need to go back. Others stated enough arguments, so I don´t want to repeat those. But as in the closed threads I also want to mention here:

You already took one weapon out of the game. The Gauss.
With the nerf (this awful fire-mechanic) you adressed double-gauss-builds mostly. But with that you killed a lot builds using one single gauss. You have the statistics and can look it up for yourselves: How many Heavy Metals with a gaussrifle do you see? How many Flames with Gauss do you see?

A lot of diversity is gone by that point. Now you´re repeating that with the CERLL. I´m no PPC guy. I replaced gauss with ac10 and sold them. And I´m using lasers. Many lasers in heat efficient builds.

MWO was definitly more fun in winter 2k13. We didn´t have as many maps. We didn´t have as many mechs. But we had a lot of fun while hanging out in TS. Now it´s more frustrating and your recent changes were the top of that.
Maybe you should roll back every balancing and start off from scratch.

yours angry customer

#26 Kinski Orlawisch

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:18 AM

CERLL got removed from all my mechs now. They are crap. You caould have also removed them from the game. That would have made no difference to me. ERPPC are OK to replace them. Even with their slower Speed. So the PPC Change is OK for me. The CER LL Change was a bit too much. 8 CERLL mechs had been Monster. I never played them. The ghost heat is too much. Sorry.
Sniping at 1800m was fun. Dealing not too much damage. Now LRMs are back. The fighting distance changed from 1500m to 800 again.
A lot of peopel think that PGI is willingly destroyiong the game with radical nerfs to get rid of the player base they still have.

A reduction of the CER LL may have been needed. But that is not a NERF. It is an anhilation of a weapon system.

For Community warfare it is not needed to bring Clans and IS mechs in one Level. There are other ways. Less Tonnage/mechs for Clanmechs in your team. Whatever. To get Faction drops it is more important to stop this mixed up teamplay. ..and to get House/Clan leaders and the missing factions.

A not happy customer.

#27 Colonel Tequila

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:23 AM

This entire weeks patch needs rolling back. It's awful. Short of lots of swearing, it's terrible.

---------------------------------

Lack of AC range on IS mechs due to the recent change in ballistic falloff.
The lack of decent jumpjets to counter clan firepower. Don't have firepower use mobility. PGI killed mobility with the JJ nerfs.
Either use the ghost heat system sensitively or scrap the entire thing.
Implement wild changes? players will react heavily and screw the metrics.
PPCs could easily have been toned down speedwise very slightly and give them more splash rather than localised damage.
Gauss rounds. change the gravity settings for each map and instantly players will have to adapt at range.
Build more maps - probably with pinpoint damage is most fights are under 400m so of course instant damage is going to be an issue - players are fighting within optimal.
Players adopting lasers over ballistics/missiles. Be happy they want to move away from the previous 'metas'

Best suggestion buy me a plane ticket and I'll come over to PGI and tell you how to design a game properly, god damn PGI you are so close to having a decent game then these wild changes without evening public testing them to get your feedback, don't treat the live servers as a beta testing device, you lose more customers everyday.

I work in business development - I imagine many other players work in a professional background here.

Edited by Colonel Tequila, 09 August 2014 - 04:26 AM.


#28 o0Marduk0o

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:23 AM

View PostKristen Redmond, on 08 August 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

4 CERLL fired from a DIrewolf (in one grouping) earlier today, put me at 55ish% heat, I have a build with 8 of them, and use it like a big nova prime.


LOL there are a lot other weapons man, no need for mono-builds. :D

#29 Sardauker Legion

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:43 AM

IF you continue about complicating this game, maybe i go back to Wechwarrior 4 Mercenaries.
You got me to buy ClanMechs with real money, and now they are becoming to be unplayable.

Can't thank you for this.

#30 TheRealTommo

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:55 AM

Clan mechs should be more powerful, that's the whole point! Screw all the "CoD" players who want it to be like FPS, the whole point of Battletech is the tactics, working together to reach a common goal, not make everything the same? Just defeats the object of having different mechs. May as well make it like Hawken...

#31 PASHA

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:23 AM

Why is this so incredibly complicated, PGI? Want to win the community over?

Do the following 2 steps:

1) Lower the C-ER LL optimal range to 800m, 1.25 second duration, and 9 heat.
2) Increase both projectile speeds for the PPCs/ER PPCs to 1000m/s.


Done. Problem and headaches solved.

Edited by saKhan Zellkai Furey, 09 August 2014 - 05:32 AM.


#32 Guzzarov

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:53 AM

The duration on Cerll is to long you can fire go get coffee then move ^^
In the test you did with clans vs IS i noticed that the clan side was way more agressive then the IS side most of the fights i was in.
And they looked like more organized in movment .

#33 GentlemanBryan

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:44 AM

I would like to have control over the beam duration. For example the longer I hold the fire button the longer the beam (the longer you hold the button the more heat you generate). I would also like to see repair stations in each map. If you receive a critical damage you can go to your repair station (these repair station can be destroyed)

#34 kkeith08

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:55 AM

I tink Lrm wear to blame for this desync http://www.twitch.tv...ith09/c/4865838

#35 Mazod

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 07:48 AM

The 2 sec hold time is really long in an assault, I get hammered. The ghost heat is too high not that I boat 8 but the DW prime has 4 stock and it is too hot for it to use them with any effectiveness.

#36 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:12 AM

No one can afford to stare at a target for two seconds in this game. FLD AC remain king. CeRLL were at the extreme end of burn time as it was and this change makes them really untenable. Heat increases I understand but thr burn time increase is unbalancing. After quite a few games between accounts I have just started looking for builds that do nit bother with the LL.

Im sure you will end up power nerfing ML soon enough as you see a large contingent of players moving to them but oh well. Many games die these kinds of slow spiralling deaths. Im just hopeful you reverse course before you drive off your already niche player base.

#37 Jorgandr

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 08:40 AM

Ok, I guess this is something the devs didn't want to hear, so they deleted it. Posting it again because you guys seriously need this dose of reality.

What the patch really did:

Yes, the CERLL is still perfectly usable for extreme ranges. You rolled back the ghost heat when firing 2 nerf, but kept the quadrupled ghost heat multiplier, so you still can't fire them in massive numbers.

This should be PLENTY, however, they still have a ridiculous burn time of 2 seconds. What this means IN THE GAME, is that you can get half damage out of them at best when you are inside 900m or so. This effectively neuters them as anything BUT an extreme sniping weapon. Extreme range sniping in this game is not a viable tactic on 90% of the maps in the game (not to mention it isnt really that much fun for anyone).

Basically the end result is that CERLL are no longer viable as a weapon system.

Now add in the PPC nerf, which makes the CERPPC no longer viable at extreme ranges either. With such an extreme amount of heat generation though, it really isn't that great at close ranges either, but that is beside the point.

CERPPC can no longer reliably hit targets outside of 6-700m outside of luck and an opponents poor piloting.

So, final result - Clan loses all of its range advantage. Your choice at range is now Gauss. That is all. The longest range energy weapon is now the CERML at 900m and the CLPL at 1200m (which still suffers from a 1.3 second duration which is also idiotic being a pulse laser. Still doing less dps than the IS LPL I might add.). The Inner sphere gets to keep their longest range energy weapons, however, with the ERLL at 1350 (ERLL still works fine at close-mid range, due to its incredibly short 1 second burn).

Range advantage - Inner Sphere.

WTF?!!?

(Also, as a side note, why are your ballistic range/heat/dps values so haphazard? You have them all over the place! IS and Clan are supposed to have the exact same stats except weight/slots for their ballistics, yet you have some IS ballistics with longer range than their clan equivalents, and most clan ballistics with longer range than their IS equivalents... Some with higher dps, some lower... some higher heat, some lower... Why these arbitrary values? Just make them all the same like they should be...)

Edited by Jorgandr, 09 August 2014 - 09:31 AM.


#38 n r g

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:32 AM

View PostJorgandr, on 09 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Ok, I guess this is something the devs didn't want to hear, so they deleted it. Posting it again because you guys seriously need this dose of reality.

What the patch really did:

Yes, the CERLL is still perfectly usable for extreme ranges. You rolled back the ghost heat when firing 2 nerf, but kept the quadrupled ghost heat multiplier, so you still can't fire them in massive numbers.

This should be PLENTY, however, they still have a ridiculous burn time of 2 seconds. What this means IN THE GAME, is that you can get half damage out of them at best when you are inside 900m or so. This effectively neuters them as anything BUT an extreme sniping weapon. Extreme range sniping in this game is not a viable tactic on 90% of the maps in the game (not to mention it isnt really that much fun for anyone).

Basically the end result is that CERLL are no longer viable as a weapon system.

Now add in the PPC nerf, which makes the CERPPC no longer viable at extreme ranges either. With such an extreme amount of heat generation though, it really isn't that great at close ranges either, but that is beside the point.

CERPPC can no longer reliably hit targets outside of 6-700m outside of luck and an opponents poor piloting.

So, final result - Clan loses all of its range advantage. Your choice at range is now Gauss. That is all. The longest range energy weapon is now the CERML at 900m and the CLPL at 1200m (which still suffers from a 1.3 second duration which is also idiotic). The Inner sphere gets to keep their longest range energy weapons, however, with the ERLL at 1350 (ERLL still works fine at close range, due to its incredibly short 1 second burn).

Range advantage - Inner Sphere.

WTF?!!?

(Also, as a side note, why are your ballistic range/heat/dps values so haphazard? You have them all over the place! IS and Clan are supposed to have the exact same stats except weight/slots for their ballistics, yet you have some IS ballistics with longer range than their clan equivalents, and most clan ballistics with longer range than their IS equivalents... Some with higher dps, some lower... some higher heat, some lower... Why these arbitrary values? Just make them all the same like they should be...)


you hit it right in the head. good job.

sadly, what you get out of all of this, as you stated, is BrawlWarrior Online.

All that battles now are pretty limited to 700m max, due to PPCs being nerfed to ****, aswell as CERLL, and IS Large is only 675m and gauss 600 aswell.

Once again, removing the skill capacity from highly skilled pilots to fight at longer ranges (1000m ~) and making, FORCING, everytime to fight closer to purposely remove the skill cap so the n00bs who can only hit shots from 200m don't feel "inferior" to the elite players.

Yes, yes, I know that someone who practices with these newly nerfed weapons can better at predicting the shot, thus the PPC isn't 100% broken, but, there will still be alot of randomness and dice rolling when it comes to hitting things afar just due to how slow the velocity is and the ability for light faster mechs to dodge the shot.

Is merely a by product of the DEVS listening to what the casual/pub base complains about. Which, think about it, some of them log-on for 1 hour a night and get ***** then complain on the forums (obivously good players have no reason to post complaints on the forums, much like someone who buys a product and has a bad experience).

Thus, this game is merely a byproduct of novice gamers who devote little time to a game, and thus want a diluted gameplay so they can still can compete, even by devoting 1hour after work when they are high or drunk.

EA did it to Battlefield, and IW to Call of duty, so it's really nothing new. They probably have enough profit at this point to scrap MWO, and release a MWO: II soon anyway, with even more Skins and cockpit items and gold mechs!!!!

Edited by E N E R G Y, 09 August 2014 - 09:35 AM.


#39 WM Wraith

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:33 AM

View PostStar Lancer, on 08 August 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I don't own any clan mechs (with all the problems in the past, I didn't feel I should pay anymore into this game). I was beginning to think that you all had finally got you act together. For me, the game was the most stable and felt the most complete... until this hot fix.


This type of comment was said over and over post Clan release up through the hot fix from experienced players....yet we needed the nerf hammer for C-ERLL's?!?!?!?

PGI - you took all the credit and glory during the launch for how cool, smooth, balanced things were yet you felt the need for this freakishly unbalanced patch?

Perhaps if we had not nerfed the inner sphere back beyond the dark ages they would be better balanced against the Clans? Just saying. Roll back the JJ and other patches for a test weekend. See how that plays. Take us back to highlanders being viable mechs, give us the Victors that can actually range in combat, get rid of the stupid Gauss mechanic, just for a weekend. Try that and see how balanced the Inner Sphere becomes against the clans.

I think you have the wrong approach by bringing down the clans. You nerf stomped the IS in to the ground before the release of the clans, and now want to bring the clans down to that level rather than buffing the IS gradually to be competitive.

Just my idea of a better approach for gaining balance.

#40 WM Wraith

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 09:43 AM

View PostJorgandr, on 09 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:



What the patch really did:
..........

Basically the end result is that CERLL are no longer viable as a weapon system.

Now add in the PPC nerf, which makes the CERPPC no longer viable at extreme ranges either. With such an extreme amount of heat generation though, it really isn't that great at close ranges either, but that is beside the point.

CERPPC can no longer reliably hit targets outside of 6-700m outside of luck and an opponents poor piloting.

So, final result - Clan loses all of its range advantage. Your choice at range is now Gauss. That is all. The longest range


Clans main advantage is range....we need either the nerfs rolled back, or the plain vanilla Clan Large Laser added. All the other points in the OP quoted were spot on. Hope PGI reads and understands their 2nd and 3rd order impacts their decisions are having. The community seems to understand better so far than they have.





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