148 replies to this topic

[xe N on]

I don't know. But I'm quite ok with the ppc nerf. Could be more around 1000 m/s. But that's just fine tuning.

All "sniper weapons" in MWO that are Gauss, ERPPC, ACs are perfectly usable in close combat too. Even the PPC with a minimum range of 90 m can be still used to some amount in brawling.

This made brawling weapons next to obsolete. There were mainly two solutions: to make brawling weapons hit harder (e.g.SRMs with a damage of 3.0 per missile) or to make ranged weapons less reliable on range.

Still, even after the PPC nerf the PPCs are still superior then e.g. SRMs. They don't spread. They have potential to hit targets at longer distances. They don't use any ammunition. However, they weight usually more.

WM Wraith, on 09 August 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Clans main advantage is range...

Clans have the range advantage, the DPS advantage, and the alpha strike advantage - depending on the build and weapons they use. IS are only better in one thing: jump and hill sniping.

Want to brawl as Clanner? Use something like this: LINK

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2014 - 10:11 AM.

[WM Jeri]

Marc von der Heide, on 09 August 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

CERLL got removed from all my mechs now. They are crap. You caould have also removed them from the game. That would have made no difference to me. ERPPC are OK to replace them. Even with their slower Speed. So the PPC Change is OK for me. The CER LL Change was a bit too much. 8 CERLL mechs had been Monster. I never played them. The ghost heat is too much. Sorry.
Sniping at 1800m was fun. Dealing not too much damage. Now LRMs are back. The fighting distance changed from 1500m to 800 again.
A lot of peopel think that PGI is willingly destroyiong the game with radical nerfs to get rid of the player base they still have.

A reduction of the CER LL may have been needed. But that is not a NERF. It is an anhilation of a weapon system.

For Community warfare it is not needed to bring Clans and IS mechs in one Level. There are other ways. Less Tonnage/mechs for Clanmechs in your team. Whatever. To get Faction drops it is more important to stop this mixed up teamplay. ..and to get House/Clan leaders and the missing factions.

A not happy customer.

And ironically they have created a new dynamic down the road when they start introducing advanced IS weapons...and the whole balancing aspect has to be addressed again. Bottom line is I played a bit last night and then left and bought Elite Dangerous.

I just refuse to spend anymore money here, they design and balance on a whim it seems with no or little consideration to the opportunity cost especially when the community gave them 56 pages of potential ideas so I agree they had lots of ways to address things. Might as well just put everything on chain fire now its what they wanted anyway and they have made it so various weapons require it. I guess alpha strikes were not part of BT lore.

[GentlemanBryan]

Just finished a match. My CEELR's active duration time Is to long - If you are not careful you can cause damage to your team mates. PGI, Please reduce the time CERLL is active.

[Jorgandr]

xe N on, on 09 August 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

I don't know. But I'm quite ok with the ppc nerf. Could be more around 1000 m/s. But that's just fine tuning.

All "sniper weapons" in MWO that are Gauss, ERPPC, ACs are perfectly usable in close combat too. Even the PPC with a minimum range of 90 m can be still used to some amount in brawling.

This made brawling weapons next to obsolete. There were mainly two solutions: to make brawling weapons hit harder (e.g.SRMs with a damage of 3.0 per missile) or to make ranged weapons less reliable on range.

Still, even after the PPC nerf the PPCs are still superior then e.g. SRMs. They don't spread. They have potential to hit targets at longer distances. They don't use any ammunition. However, they weight usually more.



Clans have the range advantage, the DPS advantage, and the alpha strike advantage - depending on the build and weapons they use. IS are only better in one thing: jump and hill sniping.

Want to brawl as Clanner? Use something like this: LINK

Actually, the only weapons that Clan have the DPS advantage with are small lasers, medium lasers (and the nerfbat is waiting in the shadows for these two, don't you worry), and ERPPC (only due to splash damage). Every other weapon is either the same DPS, or less for Clan. See here, these figures are accurate: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

The only reason Clans have the Alpha advantage is due to the way omnimechs work. This will be mitigated completely when they introduce Inner Sphere omnimechs (assuming the game lasts that long). If they balance the WEAPONS out now to make Clan omnimechs perform the same in all areas as IS regular mechs, then IS omnimechs will completely wipe the floor with Clan omnimechs (and IS regular mechs) when they are introduced. And then the nerf-fest shall continue.

Edited by Jorgandr, 09 August 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[BoydofZINJ]

MAVRICK64, on 09 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Just finished a match. My CEELR's active duration time Is to long - If you are not careful you can cause damage to your team mates. PGI, Please reduce the time CERLL is active.

well stop pointing at your team mates.

You can only do damage to team mates if the beam (the direction you are pointing at) is looking at a team mate.

Solution: When you fire - do not look at a team mate. If a team mate walks/runs into your beam you will damage the team mate, regardless of the duration. You have the choice to quickly change directions (i.e. point down into the ground, point up in the air, etc) or your team mates need to be more aware ... and not walk into friendly fire. Same thing happens when an Inner Sphere medium laser... team mate walks in front of me as it is firing... and they get hit.

[Mechteric]

I think putting the ER Large beam duration about halfway between where it was and where it is now might be a better idea, 1.75 seconds instead of 2.0.

[GentlemanBryan]

Boydsas - Not sure what you are saying. Please keep it professional.

Edited by MAVRICK64, 09 August 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Why ask us for feedback at all?
Even if we post some genius alternative, or at the bare minimum a sensible change, it just gets ignored.

[Jorgandr]

Boydsan, on 09 August 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

well stop pointing at your team mates.

You can only do damage to team mates if the beam (the direction you are pointing at) is looking at a team mate.

Solution: When you fire - do not look at a team mate. If a team mate walks/runs into your beam you will damage the team mate, regardless of the duration. You have the choice to quickly change directions (i.e. point down into the ground, point up in the air, etc) or your team mates need to be more aware ... and not walk into friendly fire. Same thing happens when an Inner Sphere medium laser... team mate walks in front of me as it is firing... and they get hit.

Torso twisting:
The act of twisting away from incoming damage to mitigate damage to a single section by spreading it across multiple areas.

This is why he was accidentally hitting friendlies. If you have any allies anywhere near you, torso twisting while using CERLL makes you a detriment to your team. Not torso twisting gets you killed.

Edited by Jorgandr, 09 August 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[Talono]

Very good patch, i always hated PPC/CELL snipers shooting at me like cowards over half of the map.
If they want to die, they have to come closer to the "real" mechwarriors (brawlers) now.

[Leigus]

Talono, on 09 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Very good patch, i always hated PPC/CELL snipers shooting at me like cowards over half of the map.
If they want to die, they have to come closer to the "real" mechwarriors (brawlers) now.

It's cute that you think that, but the truth is the exact opposite. This change does nothing.

[Night Fury76]

PPC's better than srm's?
Ok lets do a little test, 2 mechs
One with 2 PPC the other with 4 srm6
for the same 14 tons the arm mech gets 7 salvos(going of tt ammo because I can't remember mwo values)

heat for PPC s is 20 srms is 12 even add a ghost pen if you like for an alpha of srms
We are both in mediums, go. One on one fight.

I will charge at you across an open field because you can't cycle those weapons fast enough to kill me before I get under 90 and let my 54 ish point alpha shred you at point blank. If i needed you dead quick i'd shoot you in the back only as I circled you.

PPCs were fine. now its just bring an IS er LL for no skill splashing at max range

If PGI want noskill face punching online just add that stupid cone of fire hawken has.
Seen how empty there servers are lately?

[DestructShawn]

I think it is sadly obvious what has happened here, they introduce something overpower, get a bunch of people to buy it, then reduce it back to balance after sales drop off. This almost amounts to a ponzi scheme I think, where a company can arbitrarily reduce the value of something you own.

I can see these "pay to win" models failing as consumers start to get some protections like agreements for the value of what they purchase. It won't change unless the consumers complain to the better business bureau or other regulatory agencies. Complaining on these forums is worthless because they want to make it overpowered to begin with so you will buy it, then they wait to nerf it until the sales drop.

[WM Wraith]

Talono, on 09 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Very good patch, i always hated PPC/CELL snipers shooting at me like cowards over half of the map.
If they want to die, they have to come closer to the "real" mechwarriors (brawlers) now.

This is not a reason to keep the patch. Conforming to walking in front of your AC20 as you hump your slow assault across the map is exactly the reason the inner sphere lost 90% of the test matches....poor tactics or in many of the cases I saw, trying to lose (which is sad because it skewed the analytics PGI uses and believes are correct...when they are not).

Edited by WM Wraith, 09 August 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[WM Wraith]

Boydsan, on 09 August 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

well stop pointing at your team mates.

You can only do damage to team mates if the beam (the direction you are pointing at) is looking at a team mate.

Beam is long enough for your long range weapon to have a friendly walk between. When you are brawling, crossing between the shooter and the target is common. When you have a glowstick that once started, does not shut down for 2 seconds, it will intersect someone. Makes the entire weapon system a fail - no unit would field a weapon with that drawback.

Yes it is good for you if you are an IS mech on the receiving end. Bad mechanic for balance and the game though. Think bigger picture than just you and your one mech.

[keith]

Talono, on 09 August 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Very good patch, i always hated PPC/CELL snipers shooting at me like cowards over half of the map.
If they want to die, they have to come closer to the "real" mechwarriors (brawlers) now.

some ppl like to snipe. the erll beam is way to long. 1.5 felt right because of how long u were exposed. a sec to get your bearing to shot 1.5 for beam then back peddle, give or take 3-4 sec out in the open. now its 4-5 sec u are out in the open exposed to IS pinpoint dam. C erll has to be balance another way beside beam duration. either that or take away every form of pinpoint dam in the game

[Tamashii]

keith, on 09 August 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

some ppl like to snipe. the erll beam is way to long. 1.5 felt right because of how long u were exposed. a sec to get your bearing to shot 1.5 for beam then back peddle, give or take 3-4 sec out in the open. now its 4-5 sec u are out in the open exposed to IS pinpoint dam. C erll has to be balance another way beside beam duration. either that or take away every form of pinpoint dam in the game

fully agree, all the lrm boats can easily lock you up and till the beam of 2sec. is finished all the lrm´s are almost down on my mech.
I´ve tried the er l laser with the 2 sec. beam and it happend not only one time that my teammates and myself get hurt of ER L Laser friendly fire.

PGI you made a big mistake, show nuts and roll that **** back!
If the ER L Laser is to strong, why not reduce a little of the range, somwehre in between the original and the IS range e.g. 750m?!

[Jorgandr]

The real problem here could be easily solved by taking even a cursory glance at the tabletop rules.

In TT mechwarrior, the IS ERLL has a max range of 28 hexes. Clan - 30 hexes. The difference is 6%

In MWO, the IS ERLL has a max range of 1350m, Clan - 1780m. A difference of 24%!!

I think the real solution here is obvious.

PGI, you need to purchase the tabletop version of Mechwarrior/Battletech. Take a look at rules that have already gone through YEARS of balance testing, and base things on that.

Stop making off-the-wall, ridiculous, and arbitrary changes and decisions please.

edit: I mean seriously... you introduced clan mechs, said "we want them to be more balanced vs inner sphere than they were in tabletop", and then you proceeded to, as an example, REDUCE the heat of the TT CERLL, INCREASE the damage of the TT CERLL, and INCREASE the range of the TT CERLL. It just makes no sense at all. If you had simply left it exactly as it was in tabletop, you wouldnt need any of this BS 2 second duration nonsense. In fact, you could have it at 1 second (same as IS) and be just fine.

Edited by Jorgandr, 09 August 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Hadrogh]

I really dislike the ppc & cerll change. I'm usially piloting a Warhawk in it's prime configuration (4x erppc + 10lrm).
It was already a challenge to get used to it and make a classical build work, due to enermous amount of heat and the danger to fire ro fast (to trigger ghost heat). The change to the ppc travel speed don't only hurt, it even feels odd to see the shot of the ppc travel so long.

My other concern are the large energy weapons and the approach to "fix" them. The Warhawk ist really dependant of those weapons, due to fix heatsinks and very few hardpoints. Your are so dependant on erll and ppc, would be nice to take this in concideration.

[Bmetranger]

Seems like a lot of stuff is broken after last patch. Radar Deprivation is no Functional, Large Laser now suck. Horrible lag and rubber banding. Hit detection in the toilet. People shooting thru terrain again. Clan LRM Lock not working Get red Reticle and missiles still go straight into ground-Targeting computer screw up. PGI HIre some Quality Assurance people who aren't drunks at work and stop screwing up your own game. DO you think any of your employess what to admit they worked for you if you keep up the crap patches and put a some new maps.