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#21 Gattsus

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 05:29 AM

We wiil **** them all. Full Stop.



... though given the latest results regarding faction challenges....

#22 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 05:56 AM

View PostGattsus, on 16 November 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

We wiil **** them all. Full Stop.



... though given the latest results regarding faction challenges....


That is just it!

There is "Mindless Combat" (masses of Warrior grinding individual Victories), then there is "Operational Art" (identifying here and there where one or two more match Victories will swing a Sector and thus a World either toward a Victory "for" your faction OR "against" House Marik's Primary Rival Faction.

Both (knowing where to apply just a small amount of available combat power to secure Victory AND how best to thwart a rival's scheme of maneuver) will be useful on a House Level.

This weekend's Challenge is a good example... so many stats are available on Faction combat, CW will likely follow suit.


Discussing what is possible to best position House Marik to be a lucrative contract provider is what I am trying to contribute towards with these posts.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 16 November 2014 - 06:14 AM.


#23 Gattsus

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 07:39 AM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 16 November 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

That is just it!

There is "Mindless Combat" (masses of Warrior grinding individual Victories), then there is "Operational Art" (identifying here and there where one or two more match Victories will swing a Sector and thus a World either toward a Victory "for" your faction OR "against" House Marik's Primary Rival Faction.

Both (knowing where to apply just a small amount of available combat power to secure Victory AND how best to thwart a rival's scheme of maneuver) will be useful on a House Level.

This weekend's Challenge is a good example... so many stats are available on Faction combat, CW will likely follow suit.


Discussing what is possible to best position House Marik to be a lucrative contract provider is what I am trying to contribute towards with these posts.



In principle, I agree, though given the gameplay that CW will encompass initially, truth to be told, there won't be much strategy beyond the matches themselves and which planets to attack. This because, the amount of planets to attack is locked, therefore the timing of when and with which forces attack, doesn't matter, thus, removing most of the strategic elements of the game.

Edited by Gattsus, 16 November 2014 - 07:40 AM.


#24 Hoax415

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 08:50 AM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 16 November 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

And now we fast-forward to being a month (or so) out from Community Warfare (estimated 16DEC.)

As a Mercenary representing a modest group of Units, I am looking to assess House preparations and planning efforts in anticipation of CW.

PGI has already stated that all 10 factions will have identical terms of service on day 1 of CW. Thus the only initial differentiation will be how well a House has integrated itself and what efforts it has taken to reach out to and collaborate with free-ranging Mercenary Units (i.e. Mercenary Units that are not Marik in all but name because their Commanders always intended to bring them to the. Free Worlds League.)

What is the state of House Marik CW preparations? Will there be a 24-hour Marik TeamSpeak channel from which to parse out 12-man Defensive or Offensive efforts? Do you require/encourage Mercenary participation in pre-CW rehearsal drops? Do you have a CW Unit Commander meet and greet scheduled?

From our estimations there will be 48 worlds in contention throughout the IS and Clan Space (thank goodness Clans have contested boundaries between themselves!) that makes for 528 sectors (11 per world) being up for grabs at any one time. As a Mercenary Unit we are looking to maintain visibility of much of that activity in order to wrinkle out trends and patterns and best position our unit for subsequent contract negotiations.

One question is of overwhelming concern to us... without a lore-based border with the Clans, how will Marik aligned forces be able to participate in defending the Inner Sphere? And if the answer is to fight from another's space (Kurita?) will Marik forces ever be able to conquer/flag a former Clanner possession?


I understand the answer to these may not be yet forthcoming from PGI, I am just curious as to Marik Community thought on the topic.

Thank you for your forbearance with my rather presumption to bring this post to you.


This is a hell of a post.

1. All houses will have identical terms of service.
- This sounds like a bad idea right? I keep posting in various places that they really ought to stagger the contract sign ups so that if it looks like they need some adjustments they can. i.e. release the 4-month contracts for sign up a week from CW launch and then the 2-month a couple days later. That way they can track if mercs seem to be adopting one house much more than another and they can adjust the payouts on the 2 or 1 month a little bit to try to compensate.

2. 48 worlds, 528 sectors.
- I'm super interested as to where you are drawing that from. I had expected a LOT less worlds than that at once per day but then again I had anticipated the old time window system. Which is completely gone now so I'd imagine the worlds will be on the higher side but 48 would still shock me a bit.

3. But where will the FWLM fight? Since there is no border with the clan invasion.
- I think that will come down to leadership decisions as well as personal. Obviously I think zero Mariks will ever be seen defending Steiner space. Kurita would be where you might expect to see Marik purple on the defensive against the yiffaffs most often.

But the biggest x-factor to where we end up will be what does Liao decide to do. You can expect Davion to be huge enough to just attack everywhere they are allowed with limited results because they are just a big Davion zerg to but Liao will probably be a bit more surgical and if we're fighting than we are fighting and that obviously would be at/near top priority to crush those commies. If we aren't fighting... Well a whole host of fun new things might open up.

That was certainly how it was in MPBT3025, if Liao and Marik weren't fighting it opened up a world of possible attacks.

***

As to the meat of the post, most of which is regarding stuff well above my paygrade, I can speak to the fact that yes we have a solid TS server that is in use daily by a variety of units including several merc corps that are considered loyal to the cause by SAFE or whoever it is that checks these characters out for us. Individual merc players who are vouched for or otherwise invited are also seen at least in my playtimes. You might want to direct your inquiry towards those merc units who have worked closely with the main FWLM site and TS. They can (if so inclined) probably answer any particular questions you may have.

So in that sense we have an organizational infrastructure and I know at the top they meet (seems to me) weekly so I'm sure the planning is there as well.

Edited by Hoax415, 16 November 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#25 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 06:42 PM

View PostGattsus, on 16 November 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

In principle, I agree, though given the gameplay that CW will encompass initially, truth to be told, there won't be much strategy beyond the matches themselves and which planets to attack. This because, the amount of planets to attack is locked, therefore the timing of when and with which forces attack, doesn't matter, thus, removing most of the strategic elements of the game.


While PGI will keep it simplified at the start, please remember that The Prime Time Windows of Combat are gone. PGI will now leave contested worlds open for combat 24-hrs a day. As such it will be possible for Houses to surge matches in certain sectors on certain worlds, either to stave off the loss of the 6th sector on an evenly contested world or to decisively invest combat power in a world where the a Enemy may be looking to gain that 6th sector. A heavy investment of combat power (gaining a 7th and 8th sector for instance) in a "Mech Production" world (for example) just might preserve such a world despite a fanatical Enemy surge at the 11th hour.

Decisive House Leadership (and responsive Unit Commanders) would be required in each instance above in order to gain best House advantage. If left up to widely dispersed and individually motivated Unit Commanders there would be a wide but thin spread of matches through out all available sectors on all contested worlds available for attack/defense.

While it would still be the same number of matches conducted, a coordinated House effort could accept risk on certain worlds and sectors while focusing matches elsewhere.

CW will be what we make of it... some Houses by their nature (leaders and led) will make more of it than other Factions.

View PostHoax415, on 16 November 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

...I keep posting in various places that they really ought to stagger the contract sign ups so that if it looks like they need some adjustments they can. i.e. release the 4-month contracts for sign up a week from CW launch and then the 2-month a couple days later. That way they can track if mercs seem to be adopting one house much more than another and they can adjust the payouts on the 2 or 1 month a little bit to try to compensate.

2. 48 worlds, 528 sectors.
- I'm super interested as to where you are drawing that from...

3. But where will the FWLM fight? Since there is no border with the clan invasion.
...the biggest x-factor to where we end up will be what does Liao decide to do...

***

As to the meat of the post, most of which is regarding stuff well above my paygrade, I can speak to the fact that yes we have a solid TS server that is in use daily by a variety of units including several merc corps that are considered loyal to the cause by SAFE or whoever it is that checks these characters out for us. Individual merc players who are vouched for or otherwise invited are also seen at least in my playtimes. You might want to direct your inquiry towards those merc units who have worked closely with the main FWLM site and TS. They can (if so inclined) probably answer any particular questions you may have.

So in that sense we have an organizational infrastructure and I know at the top they meet (seems to me) weekly so I'm sure the planning is there as well.


Thanks Hoax, excellent points.

1. If PGI doesn't stagger the contract process, each month at the month-anniversary of Community Warfare, upwards of 50% of all contracts would lapse / renew. Monstrous (and unrealistic!) power shifts would result. By staggering contracts in the manner you propose these seismic-shifts would be ameliorated to a great extent... we can only hope PGI listens to your suggestion.

2. My simplistic estimation (and I was in error, by the following estimation there would be 52 Worlds in Conflict) was as follows: 6 Houses result in 6 borders with 2 planets on each side of a border in conflict at any one time (6x4=24); 4 Clans attack sectors with 3 internal boundaries and each clan possessing one boundary with one Inner Sphere House, thus 4 Inner sphere boundaries again with 2 planets on each side in conflict [(3x4))+(4x4)=28]; thus 24+28 for a total of 52 worlds in conflict and since each world has 11 zones (52x11=572 sectors in contention at any one time. (This is an underestimation as it doesn't take into account some Houses having significant borders with three other Houses nor Clan Invasion Corridors spanning more than one Inner Sphere House.

[b]Now... why should a House possibly look beyond their slice of conflict???[b]

Because if Liao losses key Mech Production worlds (okay their may be no Mech Production facilities at the beginning of CW, but some worlds are still liable to be more valued than others) on their Davion Border, Liao leadership may be compelled to make an unexpected surge of matches along the Marik border regardless of any informal Faction Leadership to Faction Leadership agreements.

3. As MWO Faction Leadership (represented by groups of gamers, your TeamSpeak with its associated Unit Commanders; the Lyran Commonwealth HUB; the newly established Kurita CW TeamSpeak; ect) direct their beholden Unit Commanders there will emerge Houses that have a more or less solid block of matches each day to expend on Defensive Efforts or on the Attack.

However this will be countered by "out of communicatio" House forces and Mercenary contracts which will spread Marik matches across all possible conflict sights at least to an extent.

If Liao Leaderhip is able to martial and organize a significant percentage of Liao House and Mercenary forces... then yes, a significant weight of effort can be sifted away from Marik and toward Davion/the Clans.

As we approach House coherence with regard to being able to direct the bulk of Units flying their colors, MWO CW will enter a much, much more interesting phase as agreements are made and broken, vendetta declared or Enemies of my Enemy forgiven minor trespasses.



And finally, yes I agree, so very much of this is above all of our heads. But if PGI were to take daily but more importantly, weekly trends in combat and spin us up a running "From the Front" forum thread, where a Community Manager spins in some Lore, MWO Unit names, ect all centered on the Worlds in Conflict, even us humble MechWarriors could enjoy some crisply written "News" that we actually participated it!


...anyhow, that is what I would hope to see as we progress into CW.

#26 Molossian Dog

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:06 AM

I appreciate your thoughts, Prussian Havoc.

The way I interpret what info we have on CW it will, sadly, come down to available manpower. Actually man-hours. If one faction (over the course of, say, 24h) can mount more offensives on any given front with a neighbouring faction than the other side while at the same time have enough players available for defensive actions, it will, on average, gain ground. If it can initiate so many operations that the opposing side runs out of people to accept the challange in the same time window, it will even gain planets without resistance.
The problem only intensifies if you consider that, naturally, big groups are more effective, on average, than smaller groups thrown together. (Thank you, absent VOIP) So, the availability of quality manpower (because it is grouped and probably trained to work together) is even more of a factor, even if the numbers of players and their individual skill are roughly equal.

In other words:
House X has 500 players active each day. House Y has likewise 500 players active each da.
If House X has twenty 12-man groups active per day and House Y has only fifteen 12-man groups, then House X has an advantage.

If House X has 1000 players active daily and House Y only 500, then House X has even more of an advantage. By auto-wins as well as the higher number of big groups.

-----------------------------------------

Besides there are several units I know from daily gaming that sport the Marik eagle and -to my knowledge- are not in contact with the FWLM. Maybe someone above my paygrade from the UCC should establish communication with them.

[313] 313rd Czechslovak Mech Company (see thread below)
[2MC] 2nd Marik Cuirassiers (a spanish unit, if I am not mistaken)
[Dude] No idea what their unit name or nationality is.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 18 November 2014 - 09:09 AM.


#27 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:25 AM

Excellent points and it is just possible (that absent Mercenary Corps and Lone Wolves) the largest Houses will win all major contests. But quality of average gamer is also a prime variable.


Please page down to the Faction "Match" and "Score" portion of last week's Faction Competition - http://mwomercs.com/tournaments


Total Matches is a good but not perfect indicator of each Faction's size.
Score is a good but not perfect indicator of average gamer skill.


The ebb and flow of Mercenaries and Lone Wolves in support of a given House will give rise to some level of parity among the Factions as PGI moves toward a market-based system to balance Factions.

The more points of conflict (borders, worlds in contention, sectors on a given world, ability for House gamers to go far afield and fight non-contiguous-to-Marik-space threats) PGI creates for each House, the more likely a House's gamers are to be spread across all available points of conflict, rather than concentrated on what a House deems a high value World. In this circumstance, Quality of Warriors will become a decisive advantage in gaining Local Superiority.

Plus as each House coalesces a preponderance of its forces, House Leaders will then be in a position to bargain with rival Houses for a proportionate decrease in attacks along a given border. The greater the number of Units under "management" the stronger and more valuable resultant agreements will be.



Numbers do have a quality all there own, but there will be ways for PGI to differentiate between an increasingly wide array of combat options available to each House.

Gamer skill, VOIP, availability of practiced 12-man teams, etc will all be variables that can tilt sector and world conflict in favor of a House. The House that can marshal its troops, provide VOIP availability, establish a TeamSpeak clearing house for House, Merc and Lone Wolf PUGs to form as hoc 12-man teams, etc - will soon gain an edge in MWO Community Warfare.




The House that works to best advantage its entry into Community a Warfare, will be highly attractive to Mercenary Units. Not all Mercs come in complete 12-man teams, 24/7... having a House TeamSpeak to link into for VOIP-enabled drops, will maximize per-drop-profits compared to small group or total PUG drops in support of a contracted employer.

I truly look forward to evaluating each House's preparation for CW and then following results as we all kick off CW in less than a month... I hope!

#28 War Steiner

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 12:19 PM

I would just like to point out to the Mariks who are NOT already signed up on http://housemarik.enjin.com that it is FREE (as in FREE BEER, not FREEDOM) and there is no requirement to join a unit or even House Marik (we like Mercs too).

If you already belong to a unit, getting your own space on the FWL server is quite easy if you wish and all are welcome!

#29 Molossian Dog

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:32 PM

I think there should be someone actively seeking out those units. Chances are those we should be contacting aren´t going to read this thread.

Appoint someone in your fancy UCC meeting. Better sooner than later.

Not me, though. First, I am a Merc and second, you should take someone who likes people.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 18 November 2014 - 04:33 PM.


#30 Hoax415

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 05:13 PM

I agree, if we started some proper merc outreach that would be a good idea.

#31 Molossian Dog

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 04:39 PM

So, can anyone confirm if the UCC is going to talk about that or not?
Is there a form I have to fill first?

#32 Vandul

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 05:10 PM

Wuts goin on in here? *munches popcorn*

#33 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 04:03 PM

...and the crickets chirped...

#34 Hoax415

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 06:09 PM

to be fair, you got more response here than in the merc forum.

These boards suck (meaning a lot of people don't read them) and CW has been delayed 2 years, its just hard for people to start pre-planning as if its really real this time.

#35 Molossian Dog

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

Participation on these forums is low because there is little need for faction interaction. Not much to talk about. So far there was no need to even spend a second thought about your faction. I am not sure CW is really going to change that by much.

#36 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 07:23 AM

View PostHoax415, on 21 November 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

to be fair, you got more response here than in the merc forum.

These boards suck (meaning a lot of people don't read them) and CW has been delayed 2 years, its just hard for people to start pre-planning as if its really real this time.


On the off-chance of striking up like-minded discussion where we can wrinkle out best advantage from emerging Community Warfare mechanisms, this and other similar posts are well worth the effort.

And yes, House Marik response has been valued and noted accordingly. Thank you.

View PostMolossian Dog, on 21 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Participation on these forums is low because there is little need for faction interaction. Not much to talk about. So far there was no need to even spend a second thought about your faction. I am not sure CW is really going to change that by much.


With how PGI has ramped up some very engaging and Individual-oriented weekend Challenges, PGI has an opportunity to invest that inventiveness and effort in driving Community Warfare-oriented Challenges post-16DEC.

#37 Barantor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:20 AM

I'm hoping for a detailed summary of how CW works with videos or lots of pictures before it actually hits the servers.

This will allow factions/units/groups to get themselves together.

Right now it is just what they have told us and changed a few times as well as speculations. I want the real deal.

#38 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:48 PM

The Comunity Warfare December Roadmap is only a week out!

We should have some excellent bits and teases on just what will end up constituting the first Christmas present of the Season, 16DEC CW.





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