434 replies to this topic

[Andross Deverow]

Just an observation...

It seems that 90% of the heavy que is populated with T-Wolves. Not to mention the heavy que in general is usually over 40% and it takes forever to get into a match using a heavy. Whenever I get into a match lately it seems there are usually 3 T-Wolves on a team which kinda looks like they have made other heavy chassis obsolete.

Basically my thought is the T-Wolf needs to be toned down a bit. I mean a heavy chassis that can run 90 KPH, and turn/twist like a medium and put out a 70 point alpha? That is a bit excessive no matter which way you look at it.

Opinions?

[WM Wraith]

Andross Deverow, on 12 August 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Just an observation...

It seems that 90% of the heavy que is populated with T-Wolves. Not to mention the heavy que in general is usually over 40% and it takes forever to get into a match using a heavy. Whenever I get into a match lately it seems there are usually 3 T-Wolves on a team which kinda looks like they have made other heavy chassis obsolete.

Basically my thought is the T-Wolf needs to be toned down a bit. I mean a heavy chassis that can run 90 KPH, and turn/twist like a medium and put out a 70 point alpha? That is a bit excessive no matter which way you look at it.

Opinions?

Nope. No need. They die CT pretty quick if you don't stand still in front of them.

[Rhaythe]

It's really hard to say whether or not the TW is truly overpowered, or just utterly prevalent. Like you say, there's a metric buttload of them out there, so your chances of getting taken out by one are quite good. Beware confirmation bias.

(I lurv me some Stormcrow anyway)

[Khobai]

Regardless of whether the Timberwolf is overpowered compared to other mechs, the fact remains that the TW's S side torsos are drastically better than the Prime or C side torsos. The S side torsos are COMPLETELY unbalanced in terms of benefits and drawbacks (of which there are little or none). At the very least the S side torsos need to be nerfed to balance all the side torso options.

Edited by Khobai, 12 August 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

The answer is in question... Do you even need any opinions?

Just don't start this BS again about that TWs "are just different"...

[Zyllos]

I don't think many understand that the Mad Cat follows the exact same build rules as all other mechs in the game.

I think what is happening here is the efficiency of a 75t mech along with Clan Internal Equipment efficiency when compared to IS is leading to optimal speed to armor to damage ratios that other mechs find really hard to achieve.

Edited by Zyllos, 12 August 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Not to say Timberwolves are perfectly balanced, but keep in mind: The Timberwolf is quite likely the single most popular mech in Mechwarrior, period. LOTS of people bought them, moreso than any other chassis. Hell, they even sold a heck of a lot of Gold Timberwolves (which I see in game quite frequently).

So, you're going to see a lot in matches, no matter what.

Now, with that said, Khobai is right in that the TBW-S side torsos are too good. They have negative quirks, but not enough. Basically, there's no reason not to use them to add jump capability and a great set of hardpoints to any Timberwolf.

I imagine they can't change the hardpoints, but they should seriously consider adding a few -mobility quirks to each side torso, so you have to choose between agility and jump capability/firepower.

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 12 August 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

Regardless of whether the Timberwolf is overpowered compared to other mechs, the fact remains that the TW's S side torsos are drastically better than the Prime or C side torsos. The S side torsos are COMPLETELY unbalanced in terms of benefits and drawbacks (of which there are little or none). At the very least the S side torsos need to be nerfed to balance all the side torso options.

They have MASSIVE negative quirks...like reduced twist speed, reduced missile cooldown, and increased damage to internals from overheating.

[MechWarrior849305]

Zyllos, on 12 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I don't think many understand that the Mad Cat follows the exact same build rules as all other mechs in the game.

I think what is happening here is the efficiency of a 75t mech along with Clan Internal Equipment efficiency when compared to IS is leading to optimal speed to armor to damage ratios that other mechs find really hard to achieve.

Don't you think, that one mech, that makes all other mechs in it's class obsolete (whichever it could be) - is bad for entire game, no?

[Wintersdark]

Zyllos, on 12 August 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I don't think many understand that the Mad Cat follows the exact same build rules as all other mechs in the game.

I think what is happening here is the efficiency of a 75t mech along with Clan Internal Equipment efficiency when compared to IS is leading to optimal speed to armor to damage ratios that other mechs find really hard to achieve.

And that the Timberwolf also has the "perfect storm" of FF and ES - few Clan mechs have both, and this gives the Timberwolf a huge tonnage advantage on top of it's already near-assault tonnage. It's why the Timberwolf is so vastly better than the Summoner.

[Flyby215]

That tonnage, that speed, that iconic image; it's hard to build a bad TimberWolf, and it's hard to do poorly piloting one.

Albeit, I still believe that a Timberwolf without ears is an abomination!

Releasing some more iconic Clan mechs i.e. Mad Dog, Hellbringer, would probably ease off the Timber Wolf's numbers, although it would not resolve the number of Heavies popping up...

[Wintersdark]

Gyrok, on 12 August 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

They have MASSIVE negative quirks...like reduced twist speed, reduced missile cooldown, and increased damage to internals from overheating.

Increased damage from overheating is irrelevant, because only bad players overheat except when intended. The reduced missile cooldown is offset by doubling the missile hardpoints, and the reduced twist speed is insufficient.

The reality is that the S torsos, even with those negative quirks, are the best side torso omnipods by a huge margin.

[BourbonFaucet]

I pretty much side with the popularity theory. If a re-designed Marauder came out... you'd see inflation of that too in the Heavy lineup. I can also pretty much bet that the King Crab would show up a lot in the Assault queue too if they released that.

[MechWarrior849305]

Techorse, on 12 August 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

I pretty much side with the popularity theory. If a re-designed Marauder came out... you'd see inflation of that too in the Heavy lineup. I can also pretty much bet that the King Crab would show up a lot in the Assault queue too if they released that.

Can't say, that every assault ingame is an Atlas. Yet it's the most iconic mech over assaults

[3rdworld]

DuoAngel, on 12 August 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

Don't you think, that one mech, that makes all other mechs in it's class obsolete (whichever it could be) - is bad for entire game, no?

I don't think he was commenting on it being right or wrong. Just that unless you want to give the Timber Wolf specific rules different from other mechs, it is going to have a massive advantage.

Great hitboxes, incredible speed, modular JJs instead of locked, clans lower weapon weights, omni pod availability to accomplish any role. It is a perfect storm.

[BourbonFaucet]

DuoAngel, on 12 August 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Can't say, that every assault ingame is an Atlas. Yet it's the most iconic mech over assaults

True, but I've seen tons of threads on the King Crab and the demand for it, even if the hype "didn't last", it'd still be there.

[Lefty Lucy]

WM Wraith, on 12 August 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Nope. No need. They die CT pretty quick if you don't stand still in front of them.

OK, this argument is *marginally* valid when talking about DW because they actually do have horrid mobility. If you "don't stand still in front of" a TW, they're going to turn to kill you.

[Wintersdark]

DuoAngel, on 12 August 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Can't say, that every assault ingame is an Atlas. Yet it's the most iconic mech over assaults

Possibly the most iconic, but not the most popular.

The Timberwolf is the most popular mech overall, easily - not most popular heavy, but most popular overall. It pretty much has been for a really, really long time.

I'd bet that more a'la carte timberwolves where sold than every other a'la carte option combined.

[WM Wraith]

Rhaythe, on 12 August 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

It's really hard to say whether or not the TW is truly overpowered, or just utterly prevalent. Like you say, there's a metric buttload of them out there, so your chances of getting taken out by one are quite good. Beware confirmation bias.

(I lurv me some Stormcrow anyway)

Clan mechs are the flavor of the day. Valid point that heavy queue is just heavy with them. (see what I did there?)

[Heeden]

Timberwolves are great mechs; heaviest heavies, fast, good weapon hard-points and great looks, plus they're probably the most iconic 'mech from Battletech.

Whether that makes them overpowered or just really good is uncertain, I'd say wait to see what happens with the Clan weapon balancing before considering nerf-quirks.