Jump to content

Lrm Overpowered?

lrm longrangemissile clan

94 replies to this topic

#41 Anassi

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Stone Cold
  • Stone Cold
  • 82 posts

Posted 17 August 2014 - 02:47 PM

View PostJigglyMoobs, on 14 August 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

The other option is to hire a kit fox as your personal bodyguard :)


I love doing this. Whenever I whip out my KFX I announce in the team chat that I'm carrying both ECM and dual AMS and ask if any of the fatties wants a new buddy. I have yet to be denied. They shield my skinny little ass with the sturdier parts of their face, and I make the nasty missiles go away.

Gotta love Synergies.

#42 Zeede

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts

Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

As with all things that seem OP or under-powered, it depends on what kind of MWO you play.

Do you play competitive 12-man premades?

Do you regularly drop in a pre-made lance?

Do you solo drop PUG?

Generally I drop with just one friend, on TeamSpeak, so we're basically in the solo PUG camp. Many times we are the only people with AMS on the entire team, and ECM is either non-existent or it ran off to do its own thing. In these situations, LRMs can feel really OP.

The frustrating thing is that there's really no way to fix this. Some people are just going to be dumb and not mount AMS. Some ECM-enabled pilots will just refuse to use their ECM to shield teammates. It's the solo drop MWO experience, which is like a box of chocolates, except sometimes the chocolates are all chocolate covered nuts. :)

#43 WonderSparks

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Defiant
  • The Defiant
  • 909 posts
  • LocationVictoria, BC, Canada

Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

Well, perhaps I am just crazy, but I do not really mount AMS (except if I can fit two or more on one 'Mech, like my AS7-K or Kit Foxes) and I do not feel LRMs as being "OP". If I get wasted by the missiles, obviously I did something wrong, so the burden is on me.
Did I forget to stay behind proper cover and walk into the open? Did I get Narc'd and not realize it (although this can happen so suddenly sometimes there is not much to be done about it)?
Since there are so many counters to LRMs I just do not see them as being overly troublesome unless you make a tactical "boo-boo". :)

#44 Drazyx

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 35 posts

Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:55 PM

if you got wasted by LRMs it's often not all your fault, even if you play well, jinking between buildings and such. Often times it can be so overwhelming, you really just need a shadow contingency to sweeping advance right at the beginning of hte match to make up a lot of ground quickly to strike the LRMs when the main force starts engaging your front line. The key to this being successful is whether your front line can keep the LRM bodyguards busy enough to disarm them before they turn around to help, and outnumber you.

This strategy works almost every time, not even just for taking out the back field artillery pieces either. Having the enemy engaged on 2 or more flanks with your choice of placement of guns is the key to a quick success.

The part that bothers me is when friendlies "stack up" behind cover like theyre in a SWAT game, or something, staring at eachother, stroking eachother's thighs, not peeking, not making ground with their innate speed abilities, nothing. It's highly annoying as a mainly assault wall, doing my job, earning my 500damage in the first 6 minutes before I die. Highly reminiscent of hte airsoft games that end up in a long hard fight with no clear advantage nor winners. The games I do well is when the front line Im engaged with scatters from suppressive fire at an additional angle or angles. It's the smaller quicker mech's job to make ground and harrass with their choice of placement, because they have that ability.

Often, ill end up 3rd to first on my team, with 4-500 damage, 1-2 kills and 4 assists, but one of the first 4 to die while notcing a huge cluster of friendlies twirling on the spot in the minimap, while clear opportunities close. Semi first to die, and still one of the top match scores? It just bothers me. These are hte frustrating games where im unable to open up the 1000 damage potential, ending the match with all yellow/red exposed armour components and low ammo. Whereas when there are multiple fronts with LRMs splitting damage, youre able to INDIVIDUALLY decide on target priority and placement in coordination with your team, all it takes it some personal planning and foresight, stop dictating your own movements by what the 5 other friendlies huddling behind a berm are doing.

There's a reason they put you in lances and spread you out; the devs know something.

every mech can take a bunch of hits, placement is far more important than firepower, hands down, i know this from the real world. it's just airsoft, but for the last 12 years, "nothing as exhilarating as being shot at without result" - winston churchill.

Edited by Drazyx, 22 August 2014 - 08:57 PM.


#45 Tim East

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,422 posts

Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:39 AM

I only mount AMS on mechs that are slow. Like my Atlas. I'm not wasting tons on dual AMS for my Locust that can dodge missiles like slow-moving beachballs. On the other hand, I mount ECM on any mech that will fit it. The ability to counter someone else's ECM or shield my nearby allies is invaluable for making the LRM rain more of a one-sided affair.

#46 Taidan

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 80 posts

Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

LRMS are completely overpowered on certain maps, especially when used in conjunction with UAVs.

More than once I've had every inch of armour and an arm or leg or both stripped off of my mech without even seeing an enemy when playing on Caustic.

#47 alike

    Member

  • Pip
  • 12 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:16 PM

When you can fire a constant stream of them until the target is down, then yes they are overpowerd... Other than that, then no.

#48 Kjudoon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 7,636 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:23 PM

View Postalike, on 23 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

When you can fire a constant stream of them until the target is down, then yes they are overpowerd... Other than that, then no.

tell me again about AC/UACs?

#49 alike

    Member

  • Pip
  • 12 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:26 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 23 August 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

tell me again about AC/UACs?


Are we talking about AC/UAC's?

#50 Kjudoon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 7,636 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:32 PM

If we're complaining about a 'constant stream of fire' yes. yes we are. Or we're being hypocritical by singling out only LRMs by believing that only THEIR constant stream of fire is worse than ACs constant stream of fire.

Edited by Kjudoon, 23 August 2014 - 02:33 PM.


#51 Space laces

    Rookie

  • Bridesmaid
  • 2 posts

Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:49 PM

LRM on paper and by themselves are not overpowered, BUT, i find them by far to easy to use and most of all too stackable, atm all you need as a boat is a good spotter/narc/TAG light, a noob who do not cover or ( the only skill required about LRMS but the least employed )a good position, and NOTHING ELSE, no aiming ability, no deicsion making on when i have to get out of cover to deal dmg, just barely know where the enemies are to do not waste your missiles on buildings/props.

LRMS (IMO) is just a boring weapon used by cowards, it forces the enemy to stay in cover nearly constantly just to not finish obliterated by 3 battlecruiesers peacefully hidden behind their hill 900m apart , just waiting for a red square, when it pops (thanks to the mates ), they just have to barely aim in it, and thats all, button spam , no moves, no skill by any sort, no commitment, nothing, brainless missile wash spam, and what are the effects on the battlefield ? even more hide and seek mech just licking the walls like moray ells to do not get washed by a missile shower

LRMS should just be a support weapon, and should be caped in carryed weapon number ( and then upped a little to compensate ), OR at least making them less boring to use, and requiring something more to do by the boat itself, like maintaining the reticle more tightly to the center to do not loose the lock, or i don't know... at least something who give a chance to the oponent to avoid them without having to hide behind something like a rat.

And last, LRM can't be compared with mortars, with mortar like weapons you have to deal with distance , calculate your fire strenght to drop your shells on the right place, that's not the case with LRMS, you barely put your crosshair on the square and you spam your fire button.

and of course i don't even mention the map factor, some are just nearly coverless like caustic valley or alpine pikes, a good placed turret by a light and it is autowin ( already witnessed this kind of games, hopefully i was on the right side... )

anyway something have to be done, the LRM boats multiplication is not a coincidence.

Edited by Space laces, 23 August 2014 - 05:57 PM.


#52 Kjudoon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 7,636 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:54 PM

<div>

Quote

LRMS (IMO) is just a boring weapon used by cowards,
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Okay, since we're going to use wildly inflammatory language how does this make you feel?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>&quot;ACs are stupid weapons used by fools.&quot;</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just because you don't enjoy a play-style doesn't mean it is stupid, cowardly or worse than yours. You want to charge in and play rambo, fine. I find that gameplay lousy and something I'd never do... But others love it and I'm all for them enjoying it.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So don't denigrate me for enjoying this gameplay and I shall reciprocate.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>LRMs ARE just a support weapon. Support weapons still kill or they are not weapons. We use teamplay to work over targets you are fighting. If we are true to our role, we would hang in back out of sight pounding your enemy. Support doesn't mean 'worthless' or 'ignorable'. You want unfair disadvantages placed on it because you don't want to worry about it. I'm sorry, but a weapon in the game must have a function and all three groups of weapons should be something people fear. If you are not willing to adapt and understand a weapon system that you wouldn't touch with a ten meter cattleprod, you're not going to have a good time playing this game.</div>

#53 Tim East

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,422 posts

Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:48 AM

I've been using the trial Kintaro to support from something like 400m. They're not exclusively for use from long distance, and they're not particularly good if you don't know how to avoid getting them hung up on the terrain on a given map. LRMs, not that OP. Good for killing lights that don't know how to play though.

#54 Ace Selin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,534 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:07 PM

LRMs can be OP due to them not needing line of sight, being able to track over buildings, hills and all sorts of things, when NARC, TAG and UAVs come into play (& its the only weapon capable of this mechanic).
Hiding behind a rock, makes for a crap game.

#55 mogs01gt

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 4,292 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 02 September 2014 - 07:56 AM

View PostAce Selin, on 30 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

LRMs can be OP due to them not needing line of sight, being able to track over buildings, hills and all sorts of things, when NARC, TAG and UAVs come into play (& its the only weapon capable of this mechanic).
Hiding behind a rock, makes for a crap game.

You mean the only weapon that takes team play and strategy to be effective? Well **** who would have thought that would work..... But other weapons like ACs are both powerful at LONGER ranges than LRMs and are powerful at close combat as well.


So yet again LRM complainers have no clue what they are talking about and have zero knowledge of weapon balance. Every complaint players have regarding LRMs are because of poor map design and coordinated teammates.

Edited by mogs01gt, 02 September 2014 - 07:57 AM.


#56 Galenit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,198 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:24 AM

View PostSpace laces, on 23 August 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

And last, LRM can't be compared with mortars, with mortar like weapons you have to deal with distance , calculate your fire strenght to drop your shells on the right place, that's not the case with LRMS, you barely put your crosshair on the square and you spam your fire button.

Since 1990 the Bundeswehr uses the MRT 68 military mobil computer to get fire solutions for their 120mm mortars that are mounted on M113.
Some of the M113 were exchanged to Wolfs, because the M113 was to heavy and to big for airdrops.

The new mortarsystem is mounted on a Wiesel, it has a build in firesolutioncomputer and automatic targetingsystem for the mortar.

A Wiesel is a minitank 1,8m x 1,8m x 3,3m, 2,5 tons with 2-3 man on board, armed with a mg3, smokeprojector and one of 9 different main weapons from a 30mm autocannon over antitank or airmissiles up to the 120mm mortar, they are 80kph fast. They are ABC proof, have a aircondition, night- and heatvisionsystem and the computers of this little beasts are linked together on companylayer for coordinated firesolutions. The engine, the gearbox, aircleaner and other systems are blocked together and can be exchanges in 10 minutes.
A CH-53G can carry 2 onboard and one at a cable under it, a plane can carry up to 4 of them, two can be carried by a 10t truck.
Some of them are in a trial with drone interfaces for remotecontrol.

I should stop talking, dont want that the france or polish people in this forum start to panic ...

To make it short:
Today, in a modern army, you dont need to calculate anything for a mounted mortar, just click the target (if its not provided over the commandsystem), add or remove a ring of proppelant as shown on the monitor and drop the shell.

Edited by Galenit, 02 September 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#57 BigFatGator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 265 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:05 PM

When someone says that LRMs are overpowered because the user just needs to sit at 900m and fire away blindly at any red triange, then I know they have no clue.

I run a JM6-A with 3xALRM15 from time to time, and any missles fired at any mech with a clue about cover and missile flight (hint- if you just back straight up to drop under a ridgeline and you're being fired at from in front of you, you're still going to get hit and most likely in the legs) from a range beyond 750ish meters are missles that aren't going to hit anyone with a clue that isn't narc'd or already legged. If I fire beyond 700 meters it's just to harass you and make you go defensive.

Average DMG with JM6-A is 400ish, with a 2AC10, 4ML JM6-S that I usually run when Jagering I average 350ish and it's probably more effective damage vs. the scattered dammage with the LRMS. When I get high damage matches with the JM6-A it is usually because I catch slow big mechs in the open that I can TAG and I still have to pummel them with an ungodly amount of LRMs before they die... lots of damage but it takes 200+ to actually kill anything that isn't already half stripped.

It's fair to say that LRMs are an unrewarding weapon system to play regularly, and/or that LRM's are overly annoying becasue of the suppresive effects that keep everyone humping from cover to cover (along with Gauss, AC's, ERLL's, and PPCs before the nerf) prevent the fun free-for-all close range brawls that give us the thrill of stompy badash robot action. But neither of them make it an overpowered weapons system compared to others.

Rather it is a situationally effective weapon with a high annoyance factor.

Edited by BigFatGator, 03 September 2014 - 03:07 PM.


#58 n r g

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Universe
  • The Universe
  • 816 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:13 PM

omg lrm overpowered please nerf PGI asap!!!!

#59 Clownwarlord

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,410 posts
  • LocationBusy stealing clan mechs.

Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:29 PM

Well, are they over powered? Yes and no. One LRM boat is not going to win a game, unless the pilot gets lucky and is good. But the fact that in game there is currently lrms everywhere and that you usually see 4 lrm boats on one side I would have to say it can be. Especially when you have a light mech that actually does what it is suppose to do in scouting then yes lrms are very over powered. Especially with Narc range of 600 for clans and then they still have modules that boost it. Mind you the guys who are playing light mechs usually just get XP bonuses but the LRMs who do the damage are wow making the C-Bills at crazy rate. So like I said yes and no. One no multiple and scouts hell yeah OP. But team work is always OP.

#60 UrsusMorologus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • 616 posts

Posted 06 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

Its just too easy for them to be spammed out, and they force-multiply all the way up, so half the team carrying launchers spell doom pretty quick if you dont have ECM umbrella nearby. There have been a few times when I ran out of AMS and I wasnt even being targeted, just a teammate nearby soaking up all my defenses.

Two-part change: require ammo in the same housing as the launcher, then buff the effectiveness. #1 would result in them being dropped by half the players solving the spam problem. #2 would make them dangerous for the remaining ships that were built to specialize in their use.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 08 September 2014 - 08:09 AM.






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users