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Why Bother With Ac's If There Are Uac's In Clan Mechs?


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#1 Alianton

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:22 PM

Why would anyone bother with plain ACs when there are UACs that weigh the same and are the same size? I mean it seems like Most people carry more than one if they use them, so if you manage your fire well you can mostly avoid jammage...

#2 Void Angel

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:30 PM

Because the UACs are burst-fire weapons, rather than punch-damage autocannons. If you use the "Clan AC" with a single-fire shell, you're essentially getting the advantage of Clan technology without the added need to stare at your enemy that partly balances out their firepower.

It should be noted that the "Normal" ACs are really LB-X ACs loaded out with slug ammo instead of shotgun rounds - PGI hasn't gotten in-match ammo switching to work yet, so they created another weapon type as an interim fix.

#3 IraqiWalker

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:40 PM

Clan ACs don't do single shell, they actually do the same burst fire. The difference is that Clan ACs cost a slot more, but generate less heat, and don't jam, but can't fire in ultra mode.

Otherwise NO ONE would run clan mechs with UACs, just ACs, clan lacks PP FLD.

#4 Modo44

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

This is different for various ACs. There are range, heat, and recycle changes from AC to UAC. The UAC5 is just plain better at the moment, the UAC10/20 are considerably hotter. There will be more reason to take plain ACs once we get proper fire mode switching instead of completely separate LB-X weapons. Switching from potential pinpoint fire to shotgun mode will add a new dimension to tactics.

Edited by Modo44, 17 August 2014 - 12:10 AM.


#5 Koniving

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:56 AM

The ACs as Iraqi explained are just temporary placeholders for the 'standard shot' LBX ammo.

Now, if the Clans actually had plain-jane ACs, the real purpose behind them would be to carry alternate types of ammunition.
UACs can only fire standard ammo and LBX can only fire cluster-shot or standard ammo. (Notice I said standard ammo instead of 'slugs'. LBX cannons do not and never had 'slug' ammo. Simply "Cluster Shot" and "Standard autocannon ammunition."

#6 IraqiWalker

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 01:11 AM

View PostKoniving, on 17 August 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

The ACs as Iraqi explained are just temporary placeholders for the 'standard shot' LBX ammo.

Now, if the Clans actually had plain-jane ACs, the real purpose behind them would be to carry alternate types of ammunition.
UACs can only fire standard ammo and LBX can only fire cluster-shot or standard ammo. (Notice I said standard ammo instead of 'slugs'. LBX cannons do not and never had 'slug' ammo. Simply "Cluster Shot" and "Standard autocannon ammunition."

I coulda sworn some descriptions of LB-X weaponry operation had them firing slugs, even the larger calibers. Which never made sense in my mind, considering AC 20s, never fired a single slug.

#7 Modo44

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 01:11 AM

View PostKoniving, on 17 August 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

(Notice I said standard ammo instead of 'slugs'. LBX cannons do not and never had 'slug' ammo. Simply "Cluster Shot" and "Standard autocannon ammunition.")

Yes, I meant it when I wrote "potential pinpoint". The burst shots can all be aimed at one location when you get a really good position/stationary target. I think the LB2-X and LB5-X are the closest to an actual Clan pinpoint autocannon thanks to their small spread.

#8 Koniving

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 01:16 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 17 August 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

I coulda sworn some descriptions of LB-X weaponry operation had them firing slugs, even the larger calibers. Which never made sense in my mind, considering AC 20s, never fired a single slug.

Sarna's LBX-20 description, akin to its AC/20 description, is written by one of those "one shot enthusiasts." What's funny is its got on the end "In addition, like other 20-class autocannon, the LB 20-X AC can be split among BattleMech locations." Which can only be done with burst fire weapons.

The proper LB-X Autocannon description on Sarna states "The most notable feature of the weapon was its ability to fire both standard HEAP rounds and a specialized anti-'Mech cluster round."

The Standard HEAP rounds are the same that regular ACs fire.

#9 Koniving

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 01:19 AM

On the topic of Calibers...
The lowest caliber of an AC/2 is supposedly 30mm.
LBX-2s are listed as low as 20mm (Defiance Shredder, Fortress Republic, modified Catapult).

Which MGs are 12.5mm (most vehicles), 20mm (mech), 22mm (JES 1 entry on TRO 3075), and 25mm (mech). So I thought that was curious.

Ultra autocannon/2s are also listed as low as 20mm (Mydron Model D-rf, Imminent Crisis, Jagermech III).

I don't know what they cap out at.
The only ultra and LBX 20s I have listed from books are the Defiance Thunder Ultra and the Defiance Disintegrator LBX. Both from Patriots and Tyrants and listed 120mm. The ultra on a Blitzkrieg. The LBX on a Barghest; with Illusions of Victory and The Dying Time also confirming it to be a (depending on which book) between 10 and 12 shots for their standard ammo to get their damage rating. I distinctly recall something along the lines of (paraphrased) "after firing a payload of 11 rounds, the pilot observed that his ammo count indicator shifted from 4 reloads to 3 as the echoes of [long atmospheric description of the audio of a magazine change in progress]."

In one version of that LBX, it actually had 40 'bits of flak'. In another, with a different author it only had 8 'bits of flak'. And in the third it was the standard 20. So there are some liberties in there.

Edited by Koniving, 17 August 2014 - 01:31 AM.


#10 Wintersdark

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 04:36 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 16 August 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Clan ACs don't do single shell, they actually do the same burst fire. The difference is that Clan ACs cost a slot more, but generate less heat, and don't jam, but can't fire in ultra mode.

Otherwise NO ONE would run clan mechs with UACs, just ACs, clan lacks PP FLD.


They generate the same heat, if you don't fire in ultra mode.

Also, as the default is standard cycling, UAC's never jam unless you doubletap them - hold the fire button down, they'll fire all day.

There is literally no reason to use standard clan autocannons, they're just placeholder weapons.

#11 Wintersdark

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 05:02 AM

Oops, I'll be damned; when did that change? Sorry, modo's right, the UAC10 and UAC20 are both 1 heat higher. The 2 and 5 are the same though.

#12 Koniving

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:00 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 17 August 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Oops, I'll be damned; when did that change? Sorry, modo's right, the UAC10 and UAC20 are both 1 heat higher. The 2 and 5 are the same though.

Same time as the ER LL.
The UAC/10 and UAC/20 are currently at canon values.

Here's a funny thing.
If we went by CANON heat values...
You would have a reason to run the Clan AC.

LBX and thus the Clan AC placeholder for 10 is "2 heat" (UAC/10 is 3). LBX and thus Clan AC placeholder for 20 is 6 heat.

IS AC/20 is supposed to be 7 heat.
Clan UAC/20 is supposed to be 7 heat.

Clan UAC/10 is supposed to be 3 heat.
IS AC/10 is supposed to be 3 heat.
IS LBX and Clan LBX/10 (and thus Clan AC/10) is supposed to be 2 heat.

PGI is juggling numbers because it doesn't know what it's doing.





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