93 replies to this topic

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

I've seen quite a few "petitions" floating about the forums from very concerned players, but I can't say I've seen "Clan ER Large Lasers" at the top of the list, even after the "Balancing."

I'm wondering if it is because everyone is satisfied with how PGI balanced them?

Personally, my biggest issue is the excessive burn time for the laser. After this weeks Marik Challenge, I realized how well light mechs, especially Ravens can sport the IS ER LG Lasers and do some decent damage quickly (9 damage in one second I believe?) and then quickly maneuver away after doing its full damage. The Clan ER Large Laser does what... 11.25 damage in 2 seconds? Sure Clan lasers have some more range than the IS counterparts, but at least the IS can safely USE those ER Large Lasers when closing in and entering brawling range.

Clan with a 2 second burn time, there is a high risk of hitting friendly mechs, or wasting your shots by hitting a mech for one second then aiming the laser into the ground or up into the sky because you can't stop the beam while leading your target in battle as it maneuvers in front of friendlies. I guess the issue is an IS mech is more likely to dump its full damage of an ER Large Laser in one second as compared to a Clan ER Large Laser in two.

Are those who run Clan Mechs and previously used ER Large Lasers happy?

Are those who play IS mechs seeing a reduction in ER Large Laser use from Clan, and are they having more fair and balanced fights now?

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 18 August 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

2.0 seconds was definitely way too excessive. It basically gives the gun the same potency of an IS Medium Laser (5 damage over 1 second versus 11.25 damage over 2 seconds isn't very different).

They should have just nudged the heat up a little bit, the damage down a little bit, and cut the range by about 120 meters or something similar. 1.5 second duration was just long enough to be a weakness, but just short enough to be usable. It was a "sweet spot" for balancing the gun.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 18 August 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Khobai]

increasing burn time made no sense. they shouldve just decreased the damage to 11 and the range to 750m.

[occusoj]

cerll: 11.25 dmg over 2 seconds for 9 heat results in 5.625dps and 0,8 heat per damage
iserll 9 dmg over 1 second for 8.5 heat results in 9dps and 0,94 heat per damage

While beeing a bit more heat efficient and having longer range, the cerll got hit too hard. It has vastly lower dps, too much for my taste.
I use both and IMHO the IS erll is superior now. Two seconds is just too much for the cerll, max. 1.5 would have done it too. Maybe bring up the heat a bit or tweak the damage instead. Its used much less than before the nerfhammer came down.

[1453 R]

1.5s was workable. It was long enough that an alert target could twist off the damage, but also just short enough that the weapon wasn't entirely pointless in a brawl. I used to use the C-ERLL heavily; in recent days I barely use it at all. It's bad at all ranges, enough so that people are honestly thinking the C-LPL is an acceptable replacement for it.

When your big energy gun is so embarrassingly bad that the red-headed pulse laser starts to look like a better option, you need to rethink your approach. Entirely. To both guns.

Hint: pull in the range on both guns, shorten the C-LPL's burn time to 0.9s because a PULSE LASER with a longer burn time than a STANDARD LASER is such complete garbage it's not even funny, adjust C-LPL's heat upwards to account for increased beam DPS, and constrict the C-ERLL back to its original 1.5s burn time with relevant heat adjustments and possibly a longer cycle time rather than a longer burn time. There's a good start to investigate.

[Solahma]

Doing just fine with the 2.0s duration. Ghost Walker is still operational.

[FDJustin]

00ohDstruct, on 18 August 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

I've seen quite a few "petitions" floating about the forums from very concerned players, but I can't say I've seen "Clan ER Large Lasers" at the top of the list, even after the "Balancing."

I'm wondering if it is because everyone is satisfied with how PGI balanced them?

Personally, my biggest issue is the excessive burn time for the laser. After this weeks Marik Challenge, I realized how well light mechs, especially Ravens can sport the IS ER LG Lasers and do some decent damage quickly (9 damage in one second I believe?) and then quickly maneuver away after doing its full damage. The Clan ER Large Laser does what... 11.25 damage in 2 seconds? Sure Clan lasers have some more range than the IS counterparts, but at least the IS can safely USE those ER Large Lasers when closing in and entering brawling range.

Clan with a 2 second burn time, there is a high risk of hitting friendly mechs, or wasting your shots by hitting a mech for one second then aiming the laser into the ground or up into the sky because you can't stop the beam while leading your target in battle as it maneuvers in front of friendlies. I guess the issue is an IS mech is more likely to dump its full damage of an ER Large Laser in one second as compared to a Clan ER Large Laser in two.

Are those who run Clan Mechs and previously used ER Large Lasers happy?

Are those who play IS mechs seeing a reduction in ER Large Laser use from Clan, and are they having more fair and balanced fights now?

Let's see... Is everyone satisfied with how they're balanced? Not at all. There's been nothing but complaints and cries that they're useless.

At least the IS can safely use their ERLL while closing in? No more so than clans. Arguably less so. CERLL can do something like full damage from a full kilometer with targeting computers, where ISERLL already has it's damage cut in half.
Once in brawling range, yes, ISERLL allows you to twist more often. Learn to fire on enemy cooldown. CERLL is a loooong range, not insignificant weapon.

Friendly fire happens with all weapons. Nothing makes you wince more than pumping the full damage of 8 SPLS into a friendly that cut in front of you from an odd angle.
The long burn time gives you something to worry about, and gives me hope that you're a drunkard who's going to keep pointing that thing at me when I use your allies as cover.

I can't answer this part.

There is a reduction, yes. They're still used plenty enough, and I still see some 2 second beams come in from a pixel in the distance to soften up full lances.


People hate the change in general. I think they were hit far, far too hard at first, then had the ghost heat part removed, making them simply hit too hard.
I'd like to have some 2 second lasers actually, the long burn time would be perfect to keep targets wriggling around while my other weapons are cycling. One day, when there's a clan mech that goes 120kph, and costs less than $60 CAD, I'll use them just like that. Keep them pointed at target cockpits while my small pulses or ER's or SRMS are on cooldown.

[Ultimax]

00ohDstruct, on 18 August 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

I'm wondering if it is because everyone is satisfied with how PGI balanced them?

It's because most of us realize Paul isn't listening to the forums, and doesn't care how many weapons or mechs he needs hammer into mediocrity to "normalize" all the things.

It's because the forums have a plethora of man-babies who actually have a grudge against fictional "clanners" that they have been holding onto for decades of actual, real time, in their lives.



The cERLLAS is trash, maybe we'll get lucky and in 6 months Paul might deign to make it suck slightly less.

I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 August 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Johnny Z]

00ohDstruct, on 18 August 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

I've seen quite a few "petitions" floating about the forums from very concerned players, but I can't say I've seen "Clan ER Large Lasers" at the top of the list, even after the "Balancing."

I'm wondering if it is because everyone is satisfied with how PGI balanced them?

Personally, my biggest issue is the excessive burn time for the laser. After this weeks Marik Challenge, I realized how well light mechs, especially Ravens can sport the IS ER LG Lasers and do some decent damage quickly (9 damage in one second I believe?) and then quickly maneuver away after doing its full damage. The Clan ER Large Laser does what... 11.25 damage in 2 seconds? Sure Clan lasers have some more range than the IS counterparts, but at least the IS can safely USE those ER Large Lasers when closing in and entering brawling range.

Clan with a 2 second burn time, there is a high risk of hitting friendly mechs, or wasting your shots by hitting a mech for one second then aiming the laser into the ground or up into the sky because you can't stop the beam while leading your target in battle as it maneuvers in front of friendlies. I guess the issue is an IS mech is more likely to dump its full damage of an ER Large Laser in one second as compared to a Clan ER Large Laser in two.

Are those who run Clan Mechs and previously used ER Large Lasers happy?

Are those who play IS mechs seeing a reduction in ER Large Laser use from Clan, and are they having more fair and balanced fights now?

I dont have a clan mech and have not used any of the weapons, so let me get this straight, the clan weapon do more damage, are more heat efficient, have a longer range, and weigh less, and your complaining that it takes .5 second longer to deliver all that OP?

I mean you have more of them because they weigh less, and you can fire more of them because they are more heat efficient and can also deliver the damage at a longer range, im sure im missing something, it is alot of OP to keep track of, but it seems a bit silly to complain about.

Also I could have some of this wrong since I havnt used them yet.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 August 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

There is no petition because CERLL are a high skill, low risk weapon option favored by elite point and clickers, unlike a certain other weapon system that will remain nameless.

[Ultimax]

Johnny Z, on 18 August 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I dont have a clan mech and have not used any of the weapons, so let me get this straight, the clan weapon do more damage, are more heat efficient, have a langer range, and weigh less, and your complaining that it takes .5 second longer to deliver all that OP?

I mean you have more of them because they weigh less, and you can fire more of them because they are more heat efficient and can also deliver the damage at a longer range, im sure im missing something but it seems a bit silly to complain about.

Also I could have some of this wrong since I havnt used them yet.

Yes you are wrong.


cERLLAS = 2s beam
IS ER LLAS = 1s beam

cERLLAS in ONE SECOND does "5.6" Damage. 5.6

IS ER LLAS in ONE SECOND does "9" Damage.

If you manage to fire on a disco mech, or someone struggling to pilot their mech due to not having power steering on that steering wheel, and you stay on target for the FULL TWO SECONDS then you will be rewarded with 2.2 extra damage over the IS ER LLAS.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 August 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Kiiyor]

I've tried them, and have decided they are garbage.

It wasn't even one of those petulant "they've been nerfed they suck no matter what" decisions.

If anything, the change has showed me that yes, there is a ceiling for laser burn time that makes the weapon ridiculous. Who would have thought an extra half second would make such a dramatic difference?

[Ultimax]

Kiiyor, on 18 August 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Who would have thought an extra half second would make such a dramatic difference?

Every light mech ever.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

There is no petition, because there is no Cbill mech that can boat them yet.

[Livewyr]

I have had little issue adjusting to the new burn time, I would take that over the range reduction.


ERPPCs went from 690 to 810 +120 17.4% increase
IS ERLL went from 570 to 675 +105 18.4% increase
CERLL went from 750 to 890 + 140 18.6% increase

[POWR]

Clan ER Lasers are breaking the game. The engagement distance is through the damn roof. I have played all night now and most games I don't even break 100 damage in my mechs with mediumlasers/short range autocannons because ... why, the engagement distance is most of the time 500+ meters and noone will move closer to the enemy than that. Which means? THat either you go out and die and hope to maybe get in a few points of damage, or you just sit doing nothing at all, because hey you spent all your playing time mastering and upgrading mechs that are useless without short range weapons and the tradeoff in tonnage and heat those provide for damage.

Screw clans. I did not used to think this, but after playing this week, I can see that they have absolutely broken the game for me.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bring it back down half a second

[FDJustin]

Yeah. 150ms, or 200ms would have been enough of a first-phase tweak to see just how it impacts the game. The thing is, I still see it used to great effect though, from all ranges. But it is higher skill and there are more situations where the extra burn is a detriment than a boon.
But it's also a boon at times.

[Vassago Rain]

It was a pre-emptive nerf to make sure we didn't end up with campfests.

[Ultimax]

POWR, on 18 August 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Clan ER Lasers are breaking the game. The engagement distance is through the damn roof. I have played all night now and most games I don't even break 100 damage in my mechs with mediumlasers/short range autocannons because ... why, the engagement distance is most of the time 500+ meters and noone will move closer to the enemy than that. Which means?

It means that your team is bad.


I move into position to use SRMs, and UAC 20s.

Sure, sometimes you get Alpine but even then you can push a mid-range fight or a close range brawl.




Also, the range was left untouched.

My suggestion was to nerf the range down to 800m, reduce the damage to 10, INCREASE the heat to 9.5


Then give it a burn time that isn't terribad.