946 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Interesting how opinions change in over a year!

[QuackAttack]

And another great quote from that thread.

"I'd say it's good publicity. Good on Marik for being clear and honest about having fun as a group. You shouldn't act like something is wrong when it isn't, that just feeds into the issue."

This is exactly what I, in describing what happens during a Monday Marik Madness, and the other similar house events have attempted to do.

Edited by QuackAttack, 02 September 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[MischiefSC]

The pursuit of personal gain is an individual goal. Civilization and society function by tempering and directing that to the common good - it's what drives success for social creatures. Groom Hammurabi forward the rule of law, be that for society or games, is what defines a civilization from a mob.

Which is all far afield.

The solo queue was created to allow people to play in groups with other groups without playing against solo players while solo players had their own queue to play against each other. This was in fact the culmination of the original debate from 2012; groups get to play in bigger groups and solos don't have to play against them. No sync (no need even), everyone wins.

So does that mean sync dropping is legit? It was always an exploit; you're taking additional steps to bypass an intentionally designed limitation. Is it outlaw Josey Wales though? Well it wasn't that big a deal until groups for good at it and started farming consistently. Was still uncommon but it was an issue. Do we wait for people to figure out how to sync for Elo?

So mostly we're treading water until we get an official response. I'm not asking for anyone to be punished; i'm just saying we need a rule clarification for the game we're all playing.

[MischiefSC]

I'm all for advertised house events - however we've got a group queue now. When we only had one shared queue and most groups who were syncing for the sake of stomping - generally with a lot of trash talk. It was very cool that they were doing it for a fun event.

I'd still be all for regular player run events like MMM. Everyone knows it's happening and it's a set timeframe. That's a far cry from groups syncing to play in groups but avoid the group queue.

[RussianWolf]

I did notice one match last night with 4 members of the same unit, 2 on each side. Odds of that happening without syncing are pretty low I think. I didn't care but did comment in chat.

[ApolloKaras]

Alex Reed, on 01 September 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

To all involved in this conversation, greetings from the Seraphim Regiment.


I have had a good and fruitful conversation privately with Roland and I appreciate the wisdom of his words.

As the commander of the Seraphim, I state publicly here and now that the Seraphim Regiment is formally ceasing and desisting from all Scramble activities that take place in single player queues.

I want to publicly apologize to anyone that I have offended for not noticing this issue earlier and addressing it. I promise you, there will be no more sync drops in the single player server. It does not matter who else does it or how long the practice has continued, it does not make it right.

In the Seraphim, we try to always do what is right. In this regard, we have failed our community and, for that, I apologize.

With that being said, our Scrambles will resume Friday night in the group queues.


Peace to you and yours,

Col. Alex Reed

<S> From the Templars.

I love the fluff on the communication btw! Good stuff. (I mean the link)

[QuackAttack]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'm all for advertised house events - however we've got a group queue now. When we only had one shared queue and most groups who were syncing for the sake of stomping - generally with a lot of trash talk. It was very cool that they were doing it for a fun event.

I'd still be all for regular player run events like MMM. Everyone knows it's happening and it's a set timeframe. That's a far cry from groups syncing to play in groups but avoid the group queue.

That's what I've been arguing this entire time. The ability for a large community group to host a fun event. The reason I joined up with (shameless Plug) housemarik.enjin.com was the amount of fun I had dropping in on a Monday Madness event. Many others have joined up after participating. I'm sure that the other houses that host something similar have had the same experience.

Edited by QuackAttack, 02 September 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[MischiefSC]

QuackAttack, on 02 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

That's what I've been arguing this entire time. The ability for a large community group to host a fun event. The reason I joined up with (shameless Plug) housemarik.enjin.com was the amount of fun I had dropping in on a Monday Madness event. Many others have joined up after participating. I'm sure that the other houses that host something similar have had the same experience.

Two different things -

1. Community event, advertised and run on a set time and day. Everyone involved is clear up front with what they are doing and the intent is for everyone, both participating directly or not, to have fun. This is a thumbs up idea. Obviously not every day but once a week? Rockstar.

2. Finding the group queue too hard so drops sync groups in solo queue because easier = more fun for themselves, even if it's less fun for others. Thumbs down, this is bads being bad.

Group one should still be in group queue most the time but a little MMM now and again is a good thing. I wish we got better telemetry on our matches; a MMM event with rewards for most kills in a dragon with a flamer for example would be awesome. Group two however is the seed of discontent and needs pruned, or at least officially rebuked.

Otherwise you end up with unofficially official exploits and tribal knowledge crap that just serves to make the game less fun.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Otherwise you end up with unofficially official exploits and tribal knowledge crap that just serves to make the game less fun.

That's hard to do when the dev company won't set down actual policies. The thing is, intent doesn't change the outcome. it's either ok all the time or it's not ok at all. That's why we need a "hard ruling" on this.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 02 September 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

That's hard to do when the dev company won't set down actual policies. The thing is, intent doesn't change the outcome. it's either ok all the time or it's not ok at all. That's why we need a &quot;hard ruling&quot; on this.

Yes, but you could say "sync dropping makes you a doo-doo head unless it's got official sanction. To get sanction please contact support at least 7 days in advance". So MMM? Fine. Other times? No. It's not with a lot of hassle to track unless it's egregious - but if there is no official stance even to that effect then all you've got is an opportunities for bad feels.

[Mal]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 September 2014 - 03:07 AM, said:

I thought this was the Handheld games should be held at a safe distance for eye safety placard!?!

Face explosions, whether from handheld games, or other sources, can be damaging to your eyes, and proper precautions (and safety eye wear) should always be taken.

Edited by Mal, 02 September 2014 - 01:50 PM.

[Mystere]

Gee. I disappear for a few days for some fun in the sun and you folks are still at it, as evidenced by the 41+ pages and counting.

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Two different things -

1. Community event, advertised and run on a set time and day. Everyone involved is clear up front with what they are doing and the intent is for everyone, both participating directly or not, to have fun. This is a thumbs up idea. Obviously not every day but once a week? Rockstar.

2. Finding the group queue too hard so drops sync groups in solo queue because easier = more fun for themselves, even if it's less fun for others. Thumbs down, this is bads being bad.

Group one should still be in group queue most the time but a little MMM now and again is a good thing. I wish we got better telemetry on our matches; a MMM event with rewards for most kills in a dragon with a flamer for example would be awesome. Group two however is the seed of discontent and needs pruned, or at least officially rebuked.

Otherwise you end up with unofficially official exploits and tribal knowledge crap that just serves to make the game less fun.

Hold a second. I thought sync dropping is bad and people who do it are bad. That there are no exceptions. That there are no "ANDs", "IFs", "ORs" and "BUTs". That there is absolutely no justification for doing so.

What changed while I was gone?















< ... ... >

[Roland]

Alex Reed handled things well, recognizing the issues, and perhaps more importantly, the perceptions of players who witness such actions.

I suspect most other units will eventually follow suit, albeit perhaps not so eloquently as Alex.

[Slick66]

QuackAttack, on 02 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

That's what I've been arguing this entire time. The ability for a large community group to host a fun event. The reason I joined up with (shameless Plug) housemarik.enjin.com was the amount of fun I had dropping in on a Monday Madness event. Many others have joined up after participating. I'm sure that the other houses that host something similar have had the same experience.

Yep, I find the idea that the Seraphim scramble is done for some kind of competitive advantage so unintentionally hilarious I almost feel guilty.

Between running wacky builds, ill-advised yolo tactics, tongue-in-cheek revenge missions, and trying to kill the Colonel, if anything, we should apologize to Beerandasmoke's complaint about letting our "fun" bespoil the tryhard sanctity of the solo que.

As for team "comms," I wouldn't know because they're drowned out by my Friday nite jamz.

The scramble was a great way to build camaraderie and prevent group play cliques. Too bad some people's cynicism gets to spread around like a virus.

[beerandasmoke]

Maybe you missed the part where i said i didnt have a problem with a fun event. The real problem was when kjudhoon came on and admitted the "fun" event was going on 24/7 in your TS because you guys couldnt compete in soloque. Thats pretty much when the flamewar erupted.

[MischiefSC]

The flame war is over though and someone with a level head took the high road, so we don't need to go back there.

[beerandasmoke]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

The flame war is over though and someone with a level head took the high road, so we don't need to go back there.

I agree just responded because i was singled out. Wish the seraphim the best.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yes, but you could say "sync dropping makes you a doo-doo head unless it's got official sanction. To get sanction please contact support at least 7 days in advance". So MMM? Fine. Other times? No. It's not with a lot of hassle to track unless it's egregious - but if there is no official stance even to that effect then all you've got is an opportunities for bad feels.

That's where you start getting the arguments we have in this thread

"I sync drop"
"You're mean"
"huh?"
"You're mean"
"I'm not doing it to prey on anyone"
"Oh, well that's ok" followed up by others with "You're still mean"

You have to have a policy. It's either ok or it's not. Make a policy for it and stick to it. You don't think the ones doing it to grief would just set up "random" and "periodic" "events" to just bypass a loophole like that?

Plus, then you ahve to look at hiring new staff to handle that or have PGI's consistent glacial speeds at anything make it pointless anyhow because the requests never get responded to in time.

The alternative is to speak with the groups' leadership and designate a "sync drop" day so that those wanting to do it can only do it on the specified day during the specified times.

I think that would be a much better compromise personally and much more feasible for PGI to actually be able to accomplish

[Slick66]

beerandasmoke, on 02 September 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Maybe you missed the part where i said i didnt have a problem with a fun event. The real problem was when kjudhoon came on and admitted the &quot;fun&quot; event was going on 24/7 in your TS because you guys couldnt compete in soloque. Thats pretty much when the flamewar erupted.

No, he didn't admit that; he was debating theoretical ethics of sync dropping and his views on MM. The only time the Seraphim scramble channel has been active outside of its scheduled times was during the challenge weekend, and the only discussion about that was "since we have to solo drop, and we have a great time doing the scramble, why don't we keep it going through the weekend?"

There was no "hey, let's stomp the pugs and rack up the wins." I know because I was in TS when it was discussed.

I love how 30+ pages of calumny against a regiment are serious discussion, but one post saying that's not really what happened is a flame war.

Edited by Slick66, 02 September 2014 - 03:58 PM.

[Roland]

There seems to be little reason to keep fighting over it, as Alex already dealt with things in an exceptionally professional manner. As a result, I can't support anyone saying anything bad about the Seraphim. If any of their events caused ill feelings, it was clearly not their intent, as evident by their decision to deal with it.