81 replies to this topic

[Goose]

Kanya Pryde, on 25 August 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

While I'm asking questions... would a solid state hard drive improve the way MWO runs?

No.

[Rhaythe]

Kanya Pryde, on 25 August 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

While I'm asking questions... would a solid state hard drive improve the way MWO runs?

It would improve your loading times. That's about it. All a solid state drive is is faster secondary storage. You would still be limited by your bus speeds and physical processing power.

[PanzerSmurf]

I'd defo go for at least the latest i3 4th gen or higher (I'd recommend i5 at least tbh).

You could do with a RAM upgrade as well.

Keep in mind that both things would require a new motherboard as well.

Your graphic cards might not be the best, but it's NVidia, meaning optimized for gaming, while you have AMD processor which is optimized for raw calculating vs a Intel processor built for gaming simply gives better results for what you want.

Too put it quiet frankly, AMD processor have lost their edge vs the latest generations of I processor.

And about the hard disk question, usually a faster hard drive only means faster loading times, it won't really improve the actual gameplay itself, although you can improve general gameplay by putting windows + drivers on a SSD drive. No need to have games on a SSD drive yet though as it matters little.

So if you have money to spare, a 40 gig SSD drive for your windows and drivers might be a smart idea.

You pretty much have my old setup, except I had a better GPU.

When I upgraded I again went for a similar GPU I had before and sank most of my money on processor + RAM. Easily doubled my FPS by doing so with most games.

Gotta remember, the better your CPU, the less your GPU has to do. Now a days you don't have to really look at the speeds of a GPU, but better off looking at what dedicated shaders it has.

Also despite what some people tell you, do not overclock, that you had too ask what to upgrade means you are too inexperienced to overclock safely.

Long story short,

Buy a better CPU for sure, get some now standard 1 gig videocard for 80 bucks, get DDR3 RAM. If you still have some money left then, get a small SSD card (30 to 40 gigs) for your windows and drivers and use your old SATA drive for data storage / games.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 04:52 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

NeoCodex, on 25 August 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

One thing you need to know: no more AMD!

Upgrade your CPU and MB to Intel - without a question!

If you need to know more, the MWO problems have nothing to do with gpu, most nowadays gpu's are good enough and just severely bottlenecked by the bad single thread performance that cryengine demands from the cpu. The AMD is the only reason for your poor performance. Even if you upgrade to the latest model 8core you will gain no improvement (maybe about 10%, 3-5 fps), because AMD cpus have BAD single thread performance. That is just how it is.

Overclocking does not help either, I had a Phenom II 965 OCed to 4.2 and it barely did anything. Fps was still jumping 20-40 even on low details.

Upgrade to Intel cpu like 4670K - it's what I did. It runs same clock speed, OCed to 4.2 as well, but it just runs BETTER. Make that double better. I can play on very high with FSAA on directx11 now with stable 60 fps.

As somebody before me mentioned, he runs at 90 fps on and i7 with crappy gpu, and I capped my fps at 60 because of refresh rate and I prefer more constant fps than jumping from 50-90, it can feel a little weird sometimes, it's just this game that it jumps around so much. But it's true I did ramp up all the settings to the max, since not much of a difference can be felt across them.

It hurts me so much when people recommend you upgrading or just OCing the crappy AMD cpu which was clearly NOT designed for gaming. You need single core performance since the game engine is pretty much single core bound, and all those extra cores don't do anything. Once you understand how a cpu works and why is MWO bottlenecked by it, you will always look for ways to improve your single thread performance to increase fps in gaming.

DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON ANOTHER AMD. Just get a proper gaming CPU. Currently, for it's price range and OC potentital 4670K is still king, and it makes it worth upgrading to new MB too. It's super cheap, and with a decent OC it reaches the performance of stock i7's that are almost double the price (and those don't oc as much as this one). For a good and quiet cooler at reasonable price I suggest the Scythe Ashura. For motherboards, any Z87 will do, I would recommend Asus Maximus VI Hero if you want to get something a little more flashier, this mb was made for gamers and has many extra oc features and support. So instead of going for a an expensive i7, get a good MB and a cooler and OC your 4670k and you will still come trough cheaper.

If you can't afford to upgrade to Intel, than don't do anything, it's a complete waste of time and money. Just save up and buy the real thing.

There is so much fail in this post. I must maintain control of rage. not going to spin off over some obviously new person to PC gaming.

Heck people who have LC I7 Oc'd to 4.5+ still have some trouble maintaining Vsync @ 60FPS. yes this game is a CPU pig, but a crappy GPU is a crappy GPU...........

Ocing does nothing.<------This explains my theory about your experience in PC gaming, LOL

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 26 August 2014 - 04:45 AM.

[PanzerSmurf]

Talking about raging smokey, didn't you suggest overclocking to someone who doesn't have a good understanding of computers to do so safely ?

I don't call that particularly well educated as well.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 04:49 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

If you are going to build a rig for gaming, than yes I5 or I7 is the way to go.

But if you aren't completely reliant on someone else building, setting up, tweaking and optimizing your own PC AMD is a cost effective enjoyable experience if You can grasp the concepts required.

PanzerSmurf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

Talking about raging smokey, didn't you suggest overclocking to someone who doesn't have a good understanding of computers to do so safely ?

I don't call that particularly well educated as well.

Have you seen the official Intel old lady who OCs intel chipset in 12 seconds.....Sounds like you missed that tutorial. and my post about buying a CPU cooler, thermal paste and and a GPU ^^^^ so. yeah, walk on boy!

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 26 August 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[PanzerSmurf]

Let me guess, threw software that knows it's limits ?

I doubt it as a BIOS OC or even more hardcore, removing of limiters on the hardware itself, you know, real OCing.

And I just checked the video, a BIOS OC with one of the latest BIOS which simply refuses to clock over a certain limit.

Ye that's not OCing, that's software tweaking, it has predetermined limits.

Come back to me when you see a video of a grandma OCing a 486 too 166 mhrz.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 05:00 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

^software OC'ing is always a bad idea, always has been and always will be.

Keep chirping in with irrelevant badgering. very constructive.

His cheapest most effective move is CPU COOLER+paste+GPU with a moderate CPU overclock >4ghz. <-----back to original train of thought.

[PanzerSmurf]

No it's not, if he buys a new CPU, one of the latest intel as we both suggested, he still needs to buy a new motherboard, which will only support ddr3 as well.

Most likely the guy still has a IDE CD-ROM as well, so add a SATA CD-ROM too that since those motherboards don't support IDE anymore either.

So it's not going to be cheap.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 05:05 AM.

[Bhelogan]

Just from my experience. My kids PC (the old one I built in 2006) has a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 for it's processor. You could play MW on it using an Radeon HD 5770, but had the settings at low and still would drop down into the teens in frame rate when you got into a brawl.

I dropped in a Radeon R7 260X (a budget card by all means), and now you can play MW with decent frame rates. Loading still takes a while, but it makes the game playable. So, if your looking just to up your FPS, the GPU really is going to make the biggest difference when your in a match.

Edited by Bhelogan, 26 August 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

PanzerSmurf, on 26 August 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Let me guess, threw software that knows it's limits ?

I doubt it as a BIOS OC or even more hardcore, removing of limiters on the hardware itself, you know, real OCing.

And I just checked the video, a BIOS OC with one of the latest BIOS which simply refuses to clock over a certain limit.

Ye that's not OCing, that's software tweaking, it has predetermined limits.

Come back to me when you see a video of a grandma OCing a 486 too 166 mhrz.

If you are seriously going to sit there and talk about no gains from a Bios OC..........Im not even prepare to go into non ambient temperature cooling with someone of your likes........talking about 486's lol had my own 486 with a creative blaster banshee 16mbGPU.....lol when i was 9......

[Rhaythe]

If you've never overclocked computer hardware before, and you have no spare box to fall back on...

DON'T ATTEMPT TO OVERCLOCK YOUR MACHINE

Just saying.

[PanzerSmurf]

Smokey, I never said that, I simply said that BIOS clocking when that BIOS is built with limits, then you aren't really overclocking.

I said nothing about there being no gains.

Real overclocking is going beyond those limits. hence the word "over" in the "overclocking".

Your confused with optimizing your BIOS and actual overclocking.

And yes, adding extra cooling so your processor can go faster is optimizing, not overclocking.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

PanzerSmurf, on 26 August 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

No it's not, if he buys a new CPU, one of the latest intel as we both suggested, he still needs to buy a new motherboard, which will only support ddr3 as well.

Most likely the guy still has a IDE CD-ROM as well, so add a SATA CD-ROM too that since those motherboards don't support IDE anymore either.

So it's not going to be cheap.

You are arguing about the intel swap over. which i spoke nothing of.

His system will absolutely without a doubt see vast improvements with CPUcooler+paste+BeefyGPU(gtx 760+ or R9280 or better) Doing nothing else but that.......

Huge improvements, cost effective improvements.

Where is that damned 80yr old lady OCing that chipset??

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 26 August 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[PanzerSmurf]

Buy a new AMD as cost effective ? AMD stopped making CPU's you know, what if he buys one, breaks down in a year and current stock is sold out ? Thought about that ?

Short term, yes you are right, long term, bad idea best to invest a bit more which has more potential in the long haul.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that most games now a days are developed and tested almost solely on intel.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[Smokeyjedi]

PanzerSmurf, on 26 August 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Buy a new AMD as cost effective ? AMD stopped making CPU's you know, what if he buys one, breaks down in a year and current stock is sold out ? Thought about that ?

Short term, yes you are right, long term, bad idea best to invest a bit more which has more potential in the long haul.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that most games now a days are developed and tested almost solely on intel.

Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth.....Now I supposedly want him to what? Buy an FX? what are you smoking, please share that goodstuff.
His P2 X4 will be fine for now, If hes going to shelf it why not OC it to 4ghz. and take the small risk of a moderate oc......I don't foresee him breaking out the dry ice or LN2 to set any records or anything.

Just out of curiosity what is the Highest physics score on 3dmark firestorm and or cloudgate?(improves with OC)lol someone willing to go toe to toe should have a backup screenie of his skillz. No?

[PanzerSmurf]

Right like you shoved words into my mouth by saying I said BIOS adjusting doesn't improve performance when I made no such claim ?

And yes, you DID suggest him to buy a AMD, hello, SOCKET on motherboard ring a bell ? you said paste + cooler + CPU only, thus he has to buy AMD because last time I checked, the Phenom had a quiet specific SOCKET type. Or you forget to mention the motherboard, in which I explained earlier means changing even more. And as I said, even if that's not a problem, long term potential should also be considered (because I honestly don't know the socket types by head for what you listed, I honestly don't even know the latest AMD chips because they got overtaken by Intel a good 2 years now already and I tend too focus on the best preforming chips).

That's just logical deduction!

Give me a break here, I admitted your points, I just disagree with the long term picture it offers.

Stop being so defensive, this is a simple argument, not some political statement with consequences on a global scale.

And now it's all "uhh post your benchmarks", why ? what possible proof are my benchmarks of my abilities with computers ? especially since my expertise is on Network Management and I just happen to play games enough to combine that knowledge for positive effect.

Benchmarks hardly proof skills btw but more the size of your wallet, and I'm not into running them every month, I run them only when I just setup a rig to check if it's preforming properly or too use it as a measuring tool when I get reports of a computer responding slowly. So I honestly wouldn't know at this moment nor do I feel the need to run one. It says nothing on this matter.

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 26 August 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

Alright everyone, just calm down. Deep breaths

in...

and out...

in...

and out.

I intend to replace the rest of it in the not too distant future, my question was which to upgrade first. The money that I am looking to spend is extra cash that I didn't expect to get.

The reason I am leaning towards OC + GPU is because it seems like a way to improve both at once. I am competent with computer hardware, and I think I can figure out how to safely overclock my system. I'm not the type to try something without reading up on it thoroughly. Not only that, but If I burn out the CPU I will be able to replace it (and the MOBO+RAM), without too much hardship. At that point I will still have a quality cooling fan, new GPU, and some experience with overclocking.

I appreciate all of the replies. I'll update when I have a chance to look at some of the monitoring software that has been suggested.

[Chrithu]

To be honest: I'd wait until PGI finally finishes (or actually starts?) optimizing this game. My observation with this game along with other CryEngine multiplayer games of equivalent eye candy tell me that there is A LOT of wasted resources by this game and I wouldn't throw money at new hardware to solve problems that aren't actually caused by your current hardware and no one can guarantee new hardware will make better.

[Rhaythe]

Darwins Dog, on 26 August 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

The reason I am leaning towards OC + GPU is because it seems like a way to improve both at once. I am competent with computer hardware, and I think I can figure out how to safely overclock my system. I'm not the type to try something without reading up on it thoroughly. Not only that, but If I burn out the CPU I will be able to replace it (and the MOBO+RAM), without too much hardship. At that point I will still have a quality cooling fan, new GPU, and some experience with overclocking.

As long as you understand the risks and are prepared, then sure, overclocking might help. Just don't expect too many gains from it. Processor speed isn't the biggest drawback in PC gaming anymore. These days, it's the number of cores you're running that seems to make the bigger dent. 8 cores at 3 ghz will easily outperform 4 cores at 4ghz or better.

Still, if you understand what you're doing, there's no reason not to try it out and see what you can ekk out of your older box. Should at least give you a starting point for comparisons.