22 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

I think the playerbase would really appreciate a good discussion and your thoughts about where Jumpjets are, and if there is even the possibility of some tweaking to be done on the #'s that are currently implemented.

Myself personally, and quite a few other players feel that the current JJ #'s are in need of some adjustments.

We know that you wanted to alter the balance between single jets, and full jets, but the thrust for 100% available max jets being equipped just doesn't seem to be where it needs to be to justify carrying your maximum # available.

There is also the issue of these clan mechs with Fixed JJ slots, and others such as the Hero Jester that could use some attention.

We all know that poptarting has been a big issue amongst the community, so I ask, is there a way to restore maneuverability back into JJ's while reducing the efficiency of poptarting with heavy weapons?

In the current way JJ's are working, they're really not very fun, and much diminished from what they used to be.

The problem lies in the balance between JJ equipped mechs, and those without.

If slope tolerance was adjusted a little more in favor of mechs with no JJ ability, or even to add some features back into already existing modules, such as the HillClimb module, that offers mechs better ability to get over raised surfaces and ramps, I think that would do alot to balance out the difference.

Back to jumpjets, would it be a possibility if thrust #'s were bumped up a little bit, that the same crosshair shake and convergence that is applied while thrusting could be adjusted to be a little smoother transition, instead of where you instantly let off the jets and your aim is instantly perfect again.

If thrust could go back up, making the convergence come back a little more slowly instead of instantaneously, that could bring maneuverability of jumpjets back to "being fun again", without throwing balance.

JJ's could also use a little buffer for fall recovery, such as, when you're falling into the negative #'s, giving JJ's a boost of 25% so you can actually recover instead of being stuck in that fall for the entire duration of the burn, could bring a little more fun back into the current system.

Your #'s for fall damage seem appropriate and well balanced now, and Heatscale seems on target, could we get some relief on Thrust and max heights?

What are you guy's thoughts on where JJ's are currently sitting?

Edited by Mister D, 27 August 2014 - 02:51 AM.

[Summon3r]

+1 something has got to be looked at for mechs such as the summoner 5 tons of wasted space with hot air balloon jets

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

I think every Jump Jet should send a mech 10 meters up and 30 meters forward. They are a means of getting over bad terrain after all. so the Summoner would go 150 meters at a full jump. Using all the jump fuel would create this parabolic jump curve.Using less jump would allow for shorter hops. This would also largely solve the jump sniper problem, because most jump snipers would be leaving their cover to poptart

Edited by Ghostbear Gurdel, 26 August 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Mechteric]

I really dont care what they do at this point (though I've said plenty before MWLL was the best model to go after), almost anything has to be better than the jump jets as they are now. They're not fun, and marginally useful for mundane things like trundling up steep hills and feathering a fall. Where is the jump part?!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 26 August 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[SixstringSamurai]

CapperDeluxe, on 26 August 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

I really dont care what they do at this point (though I've said plenty before MWLL was the best model to go after), almost anything has to be better than the jump jets as they are not. They're not fun, and marginally useful for mundane things like trundling up steep hills and feathering a fall. Where is the jump part?!

But my Timberwolf is hover mech! How is that not fun?

[Roland]

Add the shake back in for the whole jump, and revert JJ's to how they used to be, where you could actually use them to jump significant distances and height.

[GOLFisNOTaSPORT]

Ghostbear Gurdel, on 26 August 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I think every Jump Jet should send a mech 10 meters up and 30 meters forward. They are a means of getting over bad terrain after all. so the Summoner would go 150 meters at a full jump. Using all the jump fuel would create this parabolic jump curve.Using less jump would allow for shorter hops. This would also largely solve the jump sniper problem, because most jump snipers would be leaving their cover to poptart

In BattleTech, it's essentially six meters up and thirty meters level. Seems to me that would work well for this game.

[John80sk]

+1

Nothing more to say on the matter. Needs to be addressed.

[Tethyss]

I read they only want jump jets for maneuvering, not flying all over the map. Maybe somewhere in between. 'Death from above' is a core mechanic of the game, although rarely used in the lore and currently not possible.

Others have mentioned hill climbing. I would address modules as a separate issue (too costly, too restrictive).

[Kmieciu]

Roland, on 26 August 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Add the shake back in for the whole jump, and revert JJ's to how they used to be, where you could actually use them to jump significant distances and height.

I agree. Jumpjet shake while falling would fix long-range pop-sniping. And jump jets that allow you to jump would be really fun.

[Platinum Spider]

Yes jump jets are sad and useless.

[Appogee]

I would rather have Jump Jets as they are now, than the unrealistic "swarms of flying snipers" that we had up until two months ago.

[Platinum Spider]

Appogee, on 27 August 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

I would rather have Jump Jets as they are now, than the unrealistic "swarms of flying snipers" that we had up until two months ago.

It sure was less boring using JJs then though.

[Chopsaw]

Perhaps leave the jets as they are and add crouch/jump to the mechs themselves. The initial jump we light mech pilots need could be provided by the legs. Hell, make it a mech module...I just want to JUMP.

[Cyborne Elemental]

What bothers me most, is the lack of response at any level from the Dev team.

[Carl Avery]

Appogee, on 27 August 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

I would rather have Jump Jets as they are now, than the unrealistic "swarms of flying snipers" that we had up until two months ago.

This is more or less my take on it. The current JJs are not how I would have implemented them if I were the game developer, but the current state of JJ is better than I've ever seen it in MWO, because -- for the first time -- there are viable playstyles other than "swarms of flying snipers." It's so nice to see brawling winning high-level matches once in a while instead of just the same old "everyone has to be a floating sniper if they want to beat the best floating snipers."

Edited by Carl Avery, 27 August 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[Appogee]

Mister D, on 27 August 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

What bothers me most, is the lack of response at any level from the Dev team.

Are you new here?

[DeathlyEyes]

[GumbyC2C]

In Tabletop (for what that's worth) jump jets are a way to maneuver. You don't actually fire while jumping, you fire after landing. Old style jump jets plus reticule shake until you land again seems like a very fair balance to me. I love my Summoners. They are currently my favorite mech. But if I could do a build without JJs or get some actual use out of the JJs that are there, I would love them even more. I don't need to pop-tart. But I would like to use that mobility to appear where a heavy mech was unexpected by the other team. That is what JJs are supposed to be for.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I can't understand that at all Carl.
PPC is why JJ's were nerfed, plain and simple.

PPC's are nerfed into the ground now, JJ's can reasonably be buffed back to rebalance the equation, and actually make brawling even better.

It wasn't because Blackjacks with their 1 JJ and AC20 were dominating every game.
It wasn't because Catapults were jumpsplatting SRM6.
It wasn't because Griffins and Spider-5V were flying so high that the fabric of virtual space and time was tearing itself apart.

It was because of PPC + AC5/Gauss meta on 3 mechs, the Highlander, the Victor, and the CTF-3d, nothing else.

The last few nerfs, fall damage, heatscale, JJ thrust nerfed repeatedly, hurt the mechs that need those nerfs the least, the Mediums, and the lights, and 1 rare exception Heavy the Quickdraw, because it was applied globally and not at the source of the problem until after the fact.

Edited by Mister D, 28 August 2014 - 01:55 AM.