291 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think anyone who participates in a "Nerf/Don't Nerf Clan Mechs" thread should state their position on if Clen Mechs *should* be technically/physically superior to Inner Sphere hardware. Only then can your stance be truly known to those you converse with.

This forum is full of people who think that Clan Mechs should be technically better than IS Mechs because Lore says so. It's also full of people who think they should be "different" instead of straight-up better. Anyone in this thread who wants to debate if Clan Mechs should be nerfed or not MUST make their position known in order to have a productive conversation.

(Just Saying)

[Aresye]

Roland, on 30 August 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

That's because in this game clan pilots aren't really good. They're not genetically engineered super soldiers.

They're just guys like you and me, who have paid money to drive mechs.

Ah, so that time I took out an Atlas, a Timberwolf, and a Stormcrow all at the same time, it was just because of my own P2W Timberwolf, right?

[PappySmurf]

That's why so many are leaving MWO for greener pastures and not looking back after un-installing the game or just not playing MWO has become one dimensional game play.3 years of the same boring grind Is enough for most people all that's left is the hard core fan base.Poor suckers are still paying PGI for a terrible game.

Clans mechs are OP bad MM no new maps or game modes it has been so bad im seeing a lot of the same players battle after battle.And I don't think CW will save this game or bring it back from the brink of death. Hawken is just as bad as MWO bad devs that don't listen to there fans and players soon it will be dead also.

Edited by PappySmurf, 30 August 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Prosperity Park, on 30 August 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

I think anyone who participates in a "Nerf/Don't Nerf Clan Mechs" thread should state their position on if Clen Mechs *should* be technically/physically superior to Inner Sphere hardware. Only then can your stance be truly known to those you converse with.

This forum is full of people who think that Clan Mechs should be technically better than IS Mechs because Lore says so. It's also full of people who think they should be "different" instead of straight-up better. Anyone in this thread who wants to debate if Clan Mechs should be nerfed or not MUST make their position known in order to have a productive conversation.

(Just Saying)

I want my Clan opponents to have the teeth they have had for the last 25 years I have played BattleTech and MechWarrior games.

Is that what you are looking for Prosp?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 August 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[Archon]

12 IS VS 10 Clan would solve everything.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Aresye, on 30 August 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Ah, so that time I took out an Atlas, a Timberwolf, and a Stormcrow all at the same time, it was just because of my own P2W Timberwolf, right?

The question is, could you have done that in an IS mech of your choice.

[vash021]

Whatever happens dont touch my beloved C-ERML atleast not the damage and heat

[oneproduct]

vash021, on 30 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Whatever happens dont touch my beloved C-ERML atleast not the damage and heat

The C-ERML is outrageously good, probably the largest outlier of the clan weapons.

• The range of an IS LL for 1/5 the tonnage. This gives clan light/medium mechs the option to fight at long range very effectively whereas IS light/medium mechs tend to have to get into "brawler" range because they don't have the weight to carry multiple long range weapons.
  
• More damage per heat (heat efficiency) than both the IS ML and LL.
  
• More damage per second than the IS ML (so that even if you torso twist away from the prolonged burn, it still would have done more damage than an IS ML to the target location before you started to twist).

[vash021]

oneproduct, on 30 August 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

The C-ERML is outrageously good, probably the largest outlier of the clan weapons.

• The range of an IS LL for 1/5 the tonnage. This gives clan light/medium mechs the option to fight at long range very effectively whereas IS light/medium mechs tend to have to get into "brawler" range because they don't have the weight to carry multiple long range weapons.
  
• More damage per heat (heat efficiency) than both the IS ML and LL.
  
• More damage per second than the IS ML (so that even if you torso twist away from the prolonged burn, it still would have done more damage than an IS ML to the target location before you started to twist).

yeah just great when the clan first come out everyone said they are supposed to be better now that it can purchased for cbills lets nerf the fker

Edited by vash021, 30 August 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[oneproduct]

vash021, on 30 August 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

yeah just great when the clan first come out everyone said they are supposed to be better now that it can purchased for cbills lets nerf the fker

No, that's not true. PGI specifically said that the clans were not supposed to be better. They were supposed to be different. Even after the proposed nerfs the Clan ER ML is still going to be superior to the IS ML or LL in several regards, just not all of them.

[Augustus Martelus II]

na its because they want to be able to kill a clan mech by staying in the open and not moving.

I ve kill as much mech with a IS battlemech than a Clan mech....take cover and aim shots...if you stay in the open.... lrms (IS or clan) will eat you.

[Texas Merc]

Look, the bottom line here is that I paid good money for these clan mechs. I need to have an advantage and if you change it I will be super pissed.

Who cares what the facts say? I want to Lord over my poors with my extra range and sit back and lol all day long.

Dont you even get it bro?

[EboneezeeR]

Mcgral18, on 30 August 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

It's still powerful enough to instantly kill every mech in the game. That's enough.

STFU, we need B-52 bombrun as TA. Cause... 1 bomb is simply does not enough to kill a mech properly.

[Aresye]

oneproduct, on 30 August 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

No, that's not true. PGI specifically said that the clans were not supposed to be better. They were supposed to be different. Even after the proposed nerfs the Clan ER ML is still going to be superior to the IS ML or LL in several regards, just not all of them.

False. PGI had every intention of letting Clan mechs keep their higher damage, higher range, and lower tonnage/crit values. Their intention was to balance Clan tech by designing the weapons in a way that would require more skill to take advantage of the higher damage potential.

Don't believe me? Here's a blast from the past:
http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/

I doubt you'll read the whole thing, so here's a couple excerpts:

Quote

What the above changes allows to happen is that the Clan ER Large Laser still gets a reach buff, still gets to have higher damage, still gets the tonnage and space reduction but requires the player to hold targets longer and it will generate much more heat when Alpha’d. i.e. The weapon still keeps its Clan properties/feel but requires better skill and heat management to operate.

We will be applying this same design philosophy across all Clan weaponry and equipment as it makes its way into the game.

Now skill is an extremely subjective term from what I've noticed. I've always considered skill in any kind of shooter to be mostly reflected by a player's ability to "aim," however it appears the general forum consensus is that "aim" isn't very hard, and how competitive players don't have skill, but rather they can "point and click better," which is truly baffling, as wouldn't being able to point and click better than other players be a skill in of itself, and therefore, competitive players = higher skill?

Regardless, it's clear from PGI's intentions that they wanted to focus primarily on aim as having the most influence on Clan balance, and I think it worked as intended. Good players are absolutely wrecking face in Clan tech because they have the skill to do so, and bad players are just cannon fodder for IS and Clans because they don't have the skill to realize those advantages. They're just piloting a mech with a different flavor at that point.

The problem we have is the Clans have enough weapons that are just usable enough for bad and average players to have a considerable advantage over IS, in addition to the added survivability granted them by the Clan XL engine.

Regardless of how the future nerfs go, PGI seems adamant on sticking with their original design choice of giving better players the advantages. For example, the CERLL. Most people have thrown this weapon to the curb, but the ones that didn't, the ones that have the skill to aim a full 2 seconds of laser damage on a single spot of a moving target, are still utilizing those advantages. To no surprise whatsoever, there are still people complaining about the CERLL having longer range and more damage. I don't really know what to say to that. Sorry? Maybe stop standing still on top of a mountain and absorbing every second of damage with no discernible effort to spread the damage and/or seek cover? Bads will be bad.

So no, PGI did not ever say anything along the lines that Clan weapons and mechs are to be normalized with their IS counterparts. They were intended from their original conception that they would be more powerful, and so far every proposed nerf with Clan tech has followed this general guideline, which is why heat, range, and beam durations are the main things being looked at, while damage remains the same, or very close to the same.

[EboneezeeR]

Aresye, on 31 August 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

So no, PGI did not ever say anything along the lines that Clan weapons and mechs are to be normalized with their IS counterparts. They were intended from their original conception that they would be more powerful, and so far every proposed nerf with Clan tech has followed this general guideline, which is why heat, range, and beam durations are the main things being looked at, while damage remains the same, or very close to the same.

So what about this - http://www.sarna.net...i/Blazer_Cannon ???

[Molossian Dog]

Aresye, on 30 August 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

What happens in lore when a clanner takes on 3 mechs at once: "Holy crap these pilots are really good."
What happens in this game when a clanner takes on 3 mechs at once: "Stupid P2W clan mechs!"

Wow, there was pay to win in tabletop? And in the lore, too? Well, you had to pay for the miniatures and books, so...naw. Won´t go there.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 31 August 2014 - 02:26 AM.

[Mcgral18]

EboneezeeR, on 31 August 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

STFU, we need B-52 bombrun as TA. Cause... 1 bomb is simply does not enough to kill a mech properly.

I asked you to be factually correct, you have failed yet again.

Each bomb deals 35 damage+splash, if it isn't a direct hit.

Max head armour+internal structure is 33. 33-35=-2. POP

[EboneezeeR]

Mcgral18, on 31 August 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

I asked you to be factually correct, you have failed yet again.

Each bomb deals 35 damage+splash, if it isn't a direct hit.

Max head armour+internal structure is 33. 33-35=-2. POP

I want bomb with 200 damage... LGB would be just fine.

[Odins Fist]

If Clan Tech were as it is supposed to be... the river of tears would be mighty deep.

[EboneezeeR]

Odins Fist, on 31 August 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

If Clan Tech were as it is supposed to be... the river of tears would be mighty deep.

Stackpole inveted extraordinary bullcrap in which you honestly believe like it's a Holy Grail. Stupid plebs.