291 replies to this topic

[Damien Tokala]

mongo2006, on 30 August 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Bro I don't thinki most IS players have the stomach for "devastation" lol, not even sure if I would for that matter, we all just want a good fight. I dont mind being outnumbered, don't mind equally capable mechs, because at the end of the day I'll say we where out numbered, by capable mechs and we still kicked their asses.. I want that..

Not every encounter with the clans was a death sentence. Kurita fared the best against them, Davion came a close second with the numbers they could provide, and steiner always managed to damage them enough to force their retreat

[mongo2006]

I don't know the lore or battles but would PGI forcing pilots into stock/default builds balance anything? Only for Community Warfare I mean, sure as hell don't want to give them any crazy ideas

Edited by mongo2006, 30 August 2014 - 12:29 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

mongo2006, on 30 August 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

I don't know the lore or battles but would PGI forcing pilots into stock/default builds balance anything?

you would have alot less overpowering builds, the dire wolves would be restricted to their usual high heat builds, causing players to manage their output but alot more. Dual or triple Gauss would for the most part be gone, except for mechs that have it. The timberwolf would only get its massive lrm launchers for just a few shots, they would need to rely on lasers. For the most of their damage. Clans are EXTREMELY ammo restricted, the summoner only carries one Ton of Lbx10 ammo... Timberwolf with only two tons of lrm ammo. Dire wolf with two cuac5 and only 2 tons of ammo

[Damien Tokala]

Innersphere I believe is more loaded with ammo, clans don't carry much at all. I run out of lrms, that's 40 points of damage I can't deal anymore. It's all up to the lasers and mgs then. I run out of Lbx10... That's ten points I can't deal anymore, so I'm stuck with the lrms and the ppc, and summoner only gets two tons of lrm ammo on an lrm 15

[Kutfroat]

hi!

i don´t know anything about the lore of this game, the only tabletop i play(ed) is wh40k. only read some books long ago...

and i tell you, 10 vs 12 is not a balancing option for me. why should i take a supbar mech to begin with. even when outnumbered i´m likely to kill more enemies, deal more damage and so earn more in a clan mech. even when losing i will be able to state "but i killed multiple enemies with ease before going down", so even bragging rights are on the "losers" side in this case.

this is a shooter, not a turn based strategy game. mechs need to be balanced on an even field or the majority of players wont play IS anymore or straight out quit playing, because all the grind until now would have been just a waste of time.

but maybe pgi goes the wargaming (wrong) way...they introduce powercreep with the clans. the clans obsolete the old IS mechs, next will be some IS reinforcement mechs that are superior to the current clan mechs, and so on, and so on...

if this is the case, it made me quit wot, and it will make me quit this game.

[Damien Tokala]

Even the kit fox prime carries one Ton of lbx5 ammo and one Ton of streak ammo. It's main weapons, and I only get enough ammo to scratch an atlas CT.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Ballistics are a bad choice until you're up to Summoners or Madcats weight class, same thing goes for IS, except our AC-20 doesn't suck.

Edited by Mister D, 30 August 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

Mister D, on 30 August 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Ballistics are a bad choice until you're up to Summoners or Madcats weight class, same thing goes for IS, except our AC-20 doesn't suck.

. Unless it's the 6mg arrow... I loved that mech

[Aresye]

mongo2006, on 30 August 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

I don't know the lore or battles but would PGI forcing pilots into stock/default builds balance anything? Only for Community Warfare I mean, sure as hell don't want to give them any crazy ideas

MWLL did that, and while there were a few of us looking forward to a mechlab, there weren't many people that didn't enjoy all the chassis and variants available.

[Johnny Reb]

mongo2006, on 29 August 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

It's Not hard to go through the fight data and find the variables that balance out the damage each mech can deliver. It don't take nerf after nerf after nerf after hot fix, after nerf after hot fix after nerf to balance out the Clan mechs. What you guys seem to be doing is trying to balance out skill level and ingenuity of some of the more advanced pilots to compensate for the lack of skill of the weekend warriors.

That seems to be the only variables that YOU CAN'T NERF, the only way to achieve what PGI has set as a goal is to nerf clan mechs so badly you would have to be a skilled clan pilot to get the average damage of an unskilled IS pilot. Lets really look at who actually bought clan mechs, typically they where pilots that had been around for a while and wanted to either invest in the game for more content, those that just had to have the new shinny toys and had money to burn, or people who knew the lore and wanted the best mech they could get and took the chance that the clan mechs would live up to what they where supposed to be. Either way we are the core of the game.. we spend the money, we keep the servers full, and enough is enough!!!

Dire Wolfs where released for purchase a few days ago and I ain't seen so many dead Dire Wolfs in my life and I've played every version of Mechwarrior from day one. IS players are starting to learn that clan mechs are not what they where billed to be and getting worse after every patch. Even the CLAN MECHS ARE OP crowd are starting to say that with a smile on their face and giggle when people aren't looking.

Clanners have suffered enough changes to weapon builds and play styles, It seems PGI will nerf our mechs till we squeal louder than the IS to nerf them, Well I'm saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Buff the IS mechs, let them do more damage.. let them have equal range but leave us Clanners alone for a while. I've lost too many friends that don't play anymore, they feel like PGI tricked them with the capabilities of the clan mechs just to nerf the hell out of them. I want balance like all competitive players but making mechs like the Nova hardly playable with it's stock build is not the way to do it.

And if you EVER touch my TimberWolf again I'm gone and the $700.00 - $1000.00+ a year I spend on this game is gone too.. To me that's a few good lunches but how many can you afford to lose PGI.

I'm sick of the nerf lrm crap. So .........

[Wolfways]

Damien Tokala, on 30 August 2014 - 12:37 AM, said:

Innersphere I believe is more loaded with ammo, clans don't carry much at all. I run out of lrms, that's 40 points of damage I can't deal anymore. It's all up to the lasers and mgs then. I run out of Lbx10... That's ten points I can't deal anymore, so I'm stuck with the lrms and the ppc, and summoner only gets two tons of lrm ammo on an lrm 15

CPLT-C1 only gets 2tons of ammo for its 2xLRM15's. JM6-S gets 3tons of ammo for its 4xAC's

[Side Step]

Yeshua Kerensky, on 29 August 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

I am not for sure if 10 v 12 is going to be a solution. So the clans will just take 1 light mech and it's really not a loss of anything. I am still staring down 3 TBRs and Dires with 70+ alpha a piece. Humm not really liking those odds, but if that is how it is going to be, not even Commstar has a hope in hell.

By that logic, if you value light mechs so little, couldn't IS also take just 1 light mech and have 2 more heavies/assaults giving them the extra firepower they need? 10 v 12 wont automatically bring balance, but it is a step in the right direction I believe. With possible restrictions for various weight classes for both sides.

it's a much better option than either buffing IS or nerfing Clan to be on par with each other. Clan should be stronger individually.

Edited by Side Step, 30 August 2014 - 01:25 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

Wolfways, on 30 August 2014 - 01:19 AM, said:

CPLT-C1 only gets 2tons of ammo for its 2xLRM15's. JM6-S gets 3tons of ammo for its 4xAC's

Jager and is autocannons are pretty light on ammo use from my experience, I piloted a stock Jager, missile variant. Since they only consume one per trigger pull and per cannon. As for catapult, you can last a LIIIIIITLE LONGER with lrms since it's not a 20 rack... But not by much

[Krauser V]

I think currently things are balanced well; but it shouldn;t get any crazier than this.

i have a Timberwolf and Kitfox aside from 12 IS mechs. The kitfox is the AMS boat version with ECM - I use it purely and solely for support and actually stick to cover other mechs (unlike most PUGs where ECM's just leave you and go solo leaving the rest of your team for LRM bait )

Sure my madcat's ER Large laser has allot more range than the IS counterpart ; but the duration to do equal damage is far far longer. Especially hitting somebody at long range and keep the beam focused on 1 part takes skill. Even in medium laser ranges you need far more duration then the IS counterparts; engaging two enemies at the same time typically is significantly tougher in a clan mech over an IS mech . Especially if you try to torso twist allot to keep 1 side from being hit too often, leaves you with little to no time to keep your weapons trained for their maximum damage potential.

IS simply have more damage output per second - especially noticeable with the ballstic weapons.
I think it's a good compromise in real-time shooter. My clan mechs shine when I'm getting the enemy off-guard or out in the open at range, get in close and I'm at a damage output disatvantage.
My IS mechs are better brawlers. i can easily field my favorite Trebuchet or Quickdraw and get kills on clan mechs. They're not invincible, their not super OP.

I don't care much for the LRM nerf talk; it's "modern warfare" if you get caught in the open and there's LRM boats around - you simply deserve te die if the enemy bothered to shoot at you. You should have used cover for your approach or surround yourself with ECM/AMS. And then it's the job of other lights to try and counter those with TAG/NARC/ counter ECM if available.
I mostly die from LRM's when i see a wounded mech; double-check that he's indeed solo and then get out of cover to engage to try and go for the kill - but **** ! There's a light with ECM and TAG that has my name on it and was stalking me from the sidelines waiting for me to pop out of cover. His buddies bring the rain and I either die or sustain allot of damage getting back to cover that either the light or his buddy have enough firepower to finish me.

Clan lights suck and feel more like mediums - they don't get near as fast as IS builds which is primarily why you would want a light.

What I personally think should be nerfed - is the weapons your able to mount per mech. For example ER PPC spiders should simply not exist - even if you had the " tonnage " to fit in that weapon, it still is according to all the old MW art i've seen in rulebooks a sizable weapon that needs to have a sizable physical space to be mounted in - the Spider isn't hollow for christ sakes.

Edited by Krauser V, 30 August 2014 - 01:43 AM.

[Jonny Taco]

By mid 2015, clans will simply be better looking IS mechs with different color lasers... Normalization is killing this game...

[Adonnay]

I never understood why balance doesn't seem to take tonnage into account. Why not balance a 75t Clan Mech against an 100t IS mech. If there are more clanners in one team it will consist of lighter mechs. Problem solved. I'm pretty sure it has it's issues too but trying to balance an 100t Clan mech against an 100t IS mech is simply against everything we learned from the books/lore. That's simply not Battletech. Period. It's just another mech game where both factions are mere copies with different looks.

[Aresye]

Adonnay, on 30 August 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

I never understood why balance doesn't seem to take tonnage into account. Why not balance a 75t Clan Mech against an 100t IS mech. If there are more clanners in one team it will consist of lighter mechs. Problem solved. I'm pretty sure it has it's issues too but trying to balance an 100t Clan mech against an 100t IS mech is simply against everything we learned from the books/lore. That's simply not Battletech. Period. It's just another mech game where both factions are mere copies with different looks.

There's a great "Battle Value" system that was designed specifically for Battletech to help create more balanced engagements, that if implemented into the matchmaker's logic, would solve almost every mech-to-mech balance problem, and (when combined with Elo) would very likely create very balanced games, almost every time.

Unfortunately, because this system is near perfect and makes way too much sense to implement, it will never happen.

[El Bandito]

mongo2006, on 29 August 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

That seems to be the only variables that YOU CAN'T NERF, the only way to achieve what PGI has set as a goal is to nerf clan mechs so badly you would have to be a skilled clan pilot to get the average damage of an unskilled IS pilot.

That's impossible, even with the PBE nerfs. Clan weapons with their better damage + DoT mechanic, automatically makes them deal more damage than IS counterparts. Killing, now that's a different story.

lartfor, on 30 August 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

By mid 2015, clans will simply be better looking IS mechs with different color lasers... Normalization is killing this game...

It is not normalization. Clans mechs still retain very distinct attributes and distinct weapons than the IS. The point is to make their powers to be be "different but equal".

Edited by El Bandito, 30 August 2014 - 02:11 AM.

[Jinn of 23]

Report from the recent PUG Battlefield:

Clan mechs everywhere, IS mech a dying breed.

Maybe thats a bit of an exageration...

I don't play clans, and I still don't think they are op. I would just tone down the targeting computer a bit, and perhaps add some sort of penalty to loosing a right/left torso with an XL (anything? your !@#%ing right side is gone, cmon). The FTP model could be what is hurting the balance here also, as the clanners fund pgi, the FTP inner sphere grinders (like me) do not. Thats just how it is.

That said, it is quite satisfing punching above your weight class and getting Dire wolf/warhawk/ timberwolf kills, just use terrain and tactics. It can be done, and adds a challenge that makes the game fun ( at least for me).

[arkanis]

mongo2006, on 29 August 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

Ace I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it, because I started playing this game in a Jager and with 2x Uac5 and my 2x PPC I have waxed 90% of the Timber Wolf I've come across.

I'm just saying to Buff IS and leave Clanners alone for a while.. IS players would LOVE a buff and I would even say need one.


Damien man ain't you learned by now they don't give a hoot about lore it's all about $$$$$$$

Lore also says that they must follow zellbrigen and don't concentrate fire. Lore also says that losing a side torso gives you a hefty heat penalty. If you want to stick to lore you must somehow include the clan cons and not only the pros. And yes, your know your timber is too good when you can outurn an IS medium.