84 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Vassago Rain, on 30 August 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Yes, you gotta, like, adapt and overcome, maaaaaaaaan!
We gotz to fight the system! It's all about the natural state of evolution coursing through our veins, bro!



Or it's a poorly balanced robot game with P2W robots that didn't pan out as well as initially planned. People who bought the P2W robots to P2W are mad that their money was wasted, and those of us who didn't pay are mad that we had to see P2W robots in the first place.

Solution: don't be so greedy next time.
#2: don't pay for stuff supplied by someone you know has a habit of changing their minds whenever it's convenient for them.

#3: Stop seeing conspiracies everywhere, and deal with it

[InspectorG]

You didnt 'PAY' for a mech, you paid to be an early adopter.(for a good/service that in all probability would/will change)

Caveat Emptor.

[Vassago Rain]

Marmon Rzohr, on 30 August 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Ok....

so much anger in one thread.

There is obviously no bait and switch. Clan mechs are still great, and will always be good. Except the lights - those will stay underwhelming.

All we have is something a lot of people have been wanting to see for a long time - fast, decisive balance changes to bring the game in line. There was even a 10vs12 test run.



I find the post you quoted confusing. I for instance don't run over 10 back armor on any of my IS mechs and it works just fine. And I have not had any problem killing Clan mechs from the rear...
A point is made of how the Summoner's rear armor can be hit from the side or above and these are "adequate hitboxes" ?
How does that make any sense ? Of course you shouldn't be able to do that !

All mechs should have good, tanky hitboxes. We shouldn't nerf those mechs that have them, we should buff those who haven't got em.

There was no 10v12 test run.

It was a one-time event held by NGNG, because PGI themselves have no interest in 10v12. No data was collected, and it led to nothing.

Even their forum post said as much. I'm afraid you've been rused.

[Green Mamba]

To Relatively New Players, do your research into a games ( any Game but especially this one ) History and trends of its LEAD DEVELOPER before deciding to purchase the game or items in that game so that you can make a good educated guess if you should do so.Games have a track record to go by

[Cavendish]

I bought the $250 pack because I wanted all the "first wave" clan mechs.
I got all the "first wave" clan mechs.

Where is the bait and switch?

I want to play clan, and I do. We all knew, even if we don´t want to admit it to ourselves, that they would be "nerfed" into balance with the IS mechs/weapons step by step because in a FPS you can not have one side superior to the other and with how PGI thinks the game should be they need to make both sides equal (I dont agree with a lot of the "balancing" they are doing because they go about it in a way that for me looks so stupid its not even funny, but its their game and I knew that going in).

Clans were destined to be IS mechs with diffrent skins from the start, its just that PGI is trying to make them a diffrent experience (which is great) but do it in the most over complicated ways they can imagine (which is bad).

[meteorol]

Didn't read lol.

Did he threaten pgi with a class action lawsuit like guys who create threads with this title normally do?

[Fantastic Tuesday]

meteorol, on 30 August 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Did he threaten pgi with a class action lawsuit like guys who create threads with this title normally do?

Shh, don't give them ideas.

[Koniks]

Fatal25, on 30 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

There are plenty of games where an IS mech is the top performer...

All of this clan mech nerfing makes me feel like I paid for a 400 channel cable plan and you want to take 100 channels away every so often because it isn't fair to the guy who just has basic cable. Not a great business model to encourage returning customers.

They're the top performer in mixed matches. That's unlikely to be the case in an exclusive IS vs Clan setup.

That's a bad analogy. Do you ask for a refund when some of the cable channels cancel shows or change their schedule? You still have Clan omnimechs. They still have omnipods. They still have Clan XL engines, inner structure, and armor. They still have Clan weight and crit slots.

Never mind that the Clan loadouts are still mostly superior than what the Inner Sphere can take, even with the nerfs.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Vassago Rain, on 30 August 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

There was no 10v12 test run.

It was a one-time event held by NGNG, because PGI themselves have no interest in 10v12. No data was collected, and it led to nothing.

Even their forum post said as much. I'm afraid you've been rused.

Thanks for the heads up. I only glanced at the announcements when they were made, figured they wanted to try something extreme instead of nerfing the Clan weapons a bit more.

[Tezcatli]

They pretty much said they would balance the Clans instead of making them stronger then the IS. Because that would invalidate all of the previous content. If they hadn't. I would rage just as hard as you are, that they've created pay to win content.

[Johnny Z]

If I was piloting only clan mechs since they came out I might feel the same was as the OP. I do realize this.

Also Im sure the OP knew he wasnt paying to win but paying for premium content.

Its the only real mistake I think the game has made was seeing if the idea of making some players stronger equipped and having more weaker equipped players face them was a good idea or not. Its not, and we can all look forward to a dynamic game where there is many roles and weight classes and styles of play and even visual styles like the clan offers.

And this may sound a bit harsh, but I hope this game never even contemplates doing the rock paper scissors way because that isnt adult game design its a childs game design. That goes for any game that uses such weak game design.

Edited by Johnny Z, 30 August 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Triordinant]

Vassago Rain, on 30 August 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

After getting bitten once, people should have learned.

The key word here is should.

[NextGame]

Fatal25, on 30 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

It seems as though all of us that paid $50-$500 for clan mechs are being hit with the old bait and switch tactic by PGI. You bait us in with these new shiny clan mechs with fancy new weapons systems so we bite, and buy some of them. To balance the new weapon systems you make lasers burn longer, PPC do 10 dmg instead of 15, and LRM that fire in a line of 2 or 3, which are easier to avoid than the IS LRM that fire in packs of 10-20. Taking an AMS on some mechs, the Direwolf for example, forces you to give up two ballistic slots lessening your damage potential in the name of balance. Clan autocannons fire in burst mode instead of one slug making it extremely hard to really damage a moving mech. You cannot change your clan engine size nor can you change armor or endo steel slots or jump jet slots. All of this is done in the name of balance and we knew this when we bought our clan mechs for cash.

Now we see on the test server that you are adding more heat and decreasing the range of a lot of clan weapon systems, all in the name of balance. I don't know what game you guys are playing, but clan mechs do not automatically make you a MW god. There are plenty of games where an IS mech is the top performer. Why would anyone design the nova prime with 12 med lasers just to have it melt down into a pile a goo if you fire them all.

If you want to fix all of the complaining about clan mechs just release them all now. Quit acting like you are releasing new content every couple of weeks by simply giving us mechs already in game for Cbills. I bet if you do that just about all of the complaining about balance will go away.

All of this clan mech nerfing makes me feel like I paid for a 400 channel cable plan and you want to take 100 channels away every so often because it isn't fair to the guy who just has basic cable. Not a great business model to encourage returning customers.

There's always going to be some sort of weapon balancing going on whether we like it or not, and whether we agree with the changes or not. Unfortunately.

[Joseph Mallan]

FDJustin, on 30 August 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

It doesn't feel good to have your stuff nerfed, whether your bought it for p2w or not. There are two options, I guess, and people are split on what they want.
One side wants enhanced IS equipment instead of clan nerfs.
The other wants clan nerfs instead of enhanced IS equipment.

Three actually. Keep IS gear as is, and Buff the Clan Gear. I am here to fight the Clans not a buff House Kurita.

[Aresye]

My only fear surrounding Clan nerfs is that the game will once again return to the state it was pre-Clans:

- A few good mechs. A handful of useful weapons, and a whole lotta crap.

The PPC/AC5 meta that was king for so long wasn't king because of jump jets. It was king because:
- Lasers sucked and forced you to expose yourself for too long.
- Lasers sucked because of ghost heat.
- Missiles sucked because of all the hard counters.
- SRMs sucked because of hit detection (was finally fixed).
- ERPPCs sucked because of both heat and ghost heat.
- ACs sucked because they were hit with nerfs and ghost heat.
- Gauss sucked because of the charge mechanic.

Then the Clans came out, and woah! The game was actually fun! Why?
- Lasers actually did something.
- SRMs actually did something.
- ACs were actually useful.

The most vocal crowd I see on the forum when it comes to things being nerfed isn't the Clan owners. It's LRM players, and I can actually understand that. They've been nerfed countless times with speed changes, hard counters, AMS upgrades, radar dep, etc.

But what about us laser players? Why? Dear god why?! Why is it such a game breaking problem to finally have lasers that are effective? We're not locking on to you like missiles and having the game automatically track our lasers. We're not putting out instantaneous FLD damage that you can't torso twist to spread and must absorb in a single location.

No. All we're using is one of the few weapon systems that actually takes some semblance of skill to use, and are actually rewarded for having smooth, precise aim. Why are we punishing players that can actually aim and pilot their mechs, yet give in to the demands of players that can't seem to do anything better than to stand still in the open?

Here's a little secret: I face the same weapons.

Why do I not have a problem with laser boats? Because I torso twist. I MOVE! I expose myself for fractions of a second and cause the enemy to lose 3/4 of their potential damage to the cover I'm behind.

The majority of the players in this game don't know how to play this game. They don't move. They can't aim. They find a hill to stand still and expose their upper torso while attempting to take pot shots with weapons way beyond their effective range. Or they charge into my entire team single file like lemmings.

[Lexx]

I don't see any "bait" in what PGI did.

When most of you bought your clan packs you had no idea how powerful they would be, what their hitboxes would be like or even what they would look like in game. You bought them without knowing any of those details, so I don't see how you were baited at all.

[Sarlic]

Sarlic, on 29 August 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

You should have known if you bought the Phoenix / Overlord packages. Because i have seen this already coming for miles. Many people failed to see that they just have payed alot of money for a simple asset / model which PGI can change anytime at will.

Not that i can blame you or them expecting or hoping that PGI would change their behaviour. I dont tell you were to spend money on but i can only advice.

You're the sort of people who are encouraging PGI bad behaviour by spending buck loads of money. Please dont be offended. I dont ment to. How do you honestly think PGI or better said IGP will change when they earn this way money cheap and fast?

With each patch implented all i saw is a MC battlemech for cash and a few fixes. A few fixes? Yes, a few fixes. We have a huge list waiting for a fix, still waiting because PGI's cycle is the same as always. It clearly showed people are willing to spend alot of money for cheap assets.

I would not be surprised if CW will hit another paywall soon. Or perhaps a grinding matter like the current modules.

You and more people should be more skeptical before putting that amount of money again. When you dont break PGI's cycle how is PGI suppose to learn that the company is using a bad paymodel and leaving the game in such a poor state while tons of people are waiting for a fix.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Aresye, on 30 August 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

My only fear surrounding Clan nerfs is that the game will once again return to the state it was pre-Clans:

- A few good mechs. A handful of useful weapons, and a whole lotta crap.

The PPC/AC5 meta that was king for so long wasn't king because of jump jets. It was king because:
- Lasers sucked and forced you to expose yourself for too long.
- Lasers sucked because of ghost heat.
- Missiles sucked because of all the hard counters.
- SRMs sucked because of hit detection (was finally fixed).
- ERPPCs sucked because of both heat and ghost heat.
- ACs sucked because they were hit with nerfs and ghost heat.
- Gauss sucked because of the charge mechanic.

Then the Clans came out, and woah! The game was actually fun! Why?
- Lasers actually did something.
- SRMs actually did something.
- ACs were actually useful.

The most vocal crowd I see on the forum when it comes to things being nerfed isn't the Clan owners. It's LRM players, and I can actually understand that. They've been nerfed countless times with speed changes, hard counters, AMS upgrades, radar dep, etc.

But what about us laser players? Why? Dear god why?! Why is it such a game breaking problem to finally have lasers that are effective? We're not locking on to you like missiles and having the game automatically track our lasers. We're not putting out instantaneous FLD damage that you can't torso twist to spread and must absorb in a single location.

No. All we're using is one of the few weapon systems that actually takes some semblance of skill to use, and are actually rewarded for having smooth, precise aim. Why are we punishing players that can actually aim and pilot their mechs, yet give in to the demands of players that can't seem to do anything better than to stand still in the open?

Here's a little secret: I face the same weapons.

Why do I not have a problem with laser boats? Because I torso twist. I MOVE! I expose myself for fractions of a second and cause the enemy to lose 3/4 of their potential damage to the cover I'm behind.

The majority of the players in this game don't know how to play this game. They don't move. They can't aim. They find a hill to stand still and expose their upper torso while attempting to take pot shots with weapons way beyond their effective range. Or they charge into my entire team single file like lemmings.

Bollox.

[Pika]

Fatal25, on 30 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

It seems as though all of us that paid $50-$500 for clan mechs are being hit with the old bait and switch tactic by PGI. You bait us in with these new shiny clan mechs with fancy new weapons systems so we bite, and buy some of them. To balance the new weapon systems you make lasers burn longer, PPC do 10 dmg instead of 15, and LRM that fire in a line of 2 or 3, which are easier to avoid than the IS LRM that fire in packs of 10-20. Taking an AMS on some mechs, the Direwolf for example, forces you to give up two ballistic slots lessening your damage potential in the name of balance. Clan autocannons fire in burst mode instead of one slug making it extremely hard to really damage a moving mech. You cannot change your clan engine size nor can you change armor or endo steel slots or jump jet slots. All of this is done in the name of balance and we knew this when we bought our clan mechs for cash.

Now we see on the test server that you are adding more heat and decreasing the range of a lot of clan weapon systems, all in the name of balance. I don't know what game you guys are playing, but clan mechs do not automatically make you a MW god. There are plenty of games where an IS mech is the top performer. Why would anyone design the nova prime with 12 med lasers just to have it melt down into a pile a goo if you fire them all.

If you want to fix all of the complaining about clan mechs just release them all now. Quit acting like you are releasing new content every couple of weeks by simply giving us mechs already in game for Cbills. I bet if you do that just about all of the complaining about balance will go away.

All of this clan mech nerfing makes me feel like I paid for a 400 channel cable plan and you want to take 100 channels away every so often because it isn't fair to the guy who just has basic cable. Not a great business model to encourage returning customers.

So you want the game to be Pay to Win? Did you buy the 'Mech for the sake of rofl-stomping? If so how long did you think it'd last.

You paid for a pile of pixels in the shape of a particular 'Mech. If you thought it'd be a quick way to the top of every score board... well. Silly is you.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

yawn.

Lol.

F2P perpetual game, son. It's pretty commonly understood that NOTHING is set in stone. Balance changes always happen.

If you spent 50-500$ thinking your were going to get some OP p2w keys to the kingdom, you definitely deserve all the sorrow you bought.

(BTW; I bought the Masakari package, and am one of the first to be HAPPY they are trying to balance the bloody things. Garbage like the Timberwolf are bad for the whole bloody game. Get over it.)

You know, lemme ask you this - if CERMLs are too hot to boat effectively and their JJ animation is removed or JJs were fixed or even removed, how tough would they be? What's a good TW build that doesn't use the CERMLs? The more I play them and I more I see builds with them it feels like their real benefit was 2 things -

Only Clan mech with really flexible JJs and an incredibly wiggly JJ animation.

Only Clan mech that combines boating CERMLs with the tonnage and speed to cool them and keep them at optimal range.

The TW doesn't need Victored, so that it's garbage.

More to the point how about we un-nerf the Victor and every other IS mech that got absolutely intentionally *trashed* so that it couldn't accidentally be construed a not totally gimped unless you do X with it?