84 replies to this topic

[Calamus]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

yawn.

Lol.

F2P perpetual game, son. It's pretty commonly understood that NOTHING is set in stone. Balance changes always happen.

If you spent 50-500$ thinking your were going to get some OP p2w keys to the kingdom, you definitely deserve all the sorrow you bought.

(BTW; I bought the Masakari package, and am one of the first to be HAPPY they are trying to balance the bloody things. Garbage like the Timberwolf are bad for the whole bloody game. Get over it.)

Bishop, what are you talking about, the Timberwolf is garbage; bad for the whole bloody game? It's no more unbalanced than the Nova, the Banshee, or the Boom Jager

You should know better. IS mechs with good pilots take down Clan mechs on the field all the time. There is nothing wrong with the balance of clan/IS. There is a HUGE unbalance of less skilled gamers with loud voices and a lot of forum time.

[C E Dwyer]

You have three choices. well four I guess.

1 Suck it up, and adapt

2 Stop playing

3 continue playing and don't spend another penny on a PGI product again.

4 you feel really bad about the cash you spent you can allways ask visa to try recover it if you feel PGI did bait and switch, but you take the fourth action win or lose the claim you won't be coming back in a hurry, or ever..

[MadPanda]

I'm gonna ignore the post and reply to the "bait & switch". I think its obvious to anyone with a brain that pgi did on purpose make the clan mechs overpowered to sell more of them. I can imagine the three prime evils sitting down in a meeting and one of them saying "let's make them stronger at first, that will sell better" and the others agreeing on it. Now that the clan mechs are slowly but surely becoming "free" (cbills), they start their balancing process because they do want a balanced game after all because otherwise people would just quit the game and they lose potential revenue.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

Cathy, on 30 August 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

3 continue playing and don't spend another penny on a PGI product again.

Option chosen.

[Sarlic]

PGI has a reason why they're holding back info much as possible. To prevent false advertising or even perhaps lawsuits. (If its called that)

Edited by Sarlic, 30 August 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 30 August 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

You have three choices. well four I guess.

1 Suck it up, and adapt

2 Stop playing

3 continue playing and don't spend another penny on a PGI product again.

4 you feel really bad about the cash you spent you can allways ask visa to try recover it if you feel PGI did bait and switch, but you take the fourth action win or lose the claim you won't be coming back in a hurry, or ever..

I recently failed at #3. I dropped the $30 to buy the new Battlemaster Hero. I couldn't help it! It's a Battlemaster with a Asian Dragon Motif! Cool Mech with a Cool paint pattern... I had to have it!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Fatal25, on 30 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Original Post:

"I thought I could buy power with real-world cash."

Sorry, you can't buy Clan Mechs with a TableTop-scale advantage in this game, but you were told that before they went on sale. You should have read the available information before making your purchase.

[Coralld]

Marmon Rzohr, on 30 August 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

Ok....

so much anger in one thread.

There is obviously no bait and switch. Clan mechs are still great, and will always be good. Except the lights - those will stay underwhelming.

All we have is something a lot of people have been wanting to see for a long time - fast, decisive balance changes to bring the game in line. There was even a 10vs12 test run.



I find the post you quoted confusing. I for instance don't run over 10 back armor on any of my IS mechs and it works just fine. And I have not had any problem killing Clan mechs from the rear...
A point is made of how the Summoner's rear armor can be hit from the side or above and these are "adequate hitboxes" ?
How does that make any sense ? Of course you shouldn't be able to do that !

All mechs should have good, tanky hitboxes. We shouldn't nerf those mechs that have them, we should buff those who haven't got em.

I agree that there is no bait and switch going on, PGI never stated what the Clan Mechs stats were so to complain that anyone were promised anything out side from getting Clan Mechs sooner is just silly.

Let me un-confuse you then.
What Koniving was getting at, and what I have see, is that some Clan mechs, TW and Stormcrow respectively, have warped hit boxes that favor them, where as the Adder and Summoner have warped hit boxes that are against them.
Having broken hit boxes is always bad no matter what.

TW clearly have screwed up rear hit boxes. From what I gathered, the only reliable way of hitting the rear area is if you are directly behind it. However, if you are firing at an angle of around 30 degrees on the backside of a TW, you may actually end up hitting its front ST instead, but if you are at a 45 degree angle or more, you are almost always hitting its front ST.
This is why the TW and Stormcrows can get away with having far less rear armor than most other mechs and why they can reallocate extra armor else where, IE the front.

I have a number of experiences where shooting at the back side of a TW at these angles ended up damaging the front ST instead of the rear.
Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but I know I am not the only one who has had this happen to them.

Then we have the Summoner on the opposite side of the spectrum, where you can hit their rear from the most ridiculous of angles.

Both the TW, Stormcrow, Adder, Nova, and Summoner, need their hit boxes reworked

Edited by Coralld, 30 August 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 30 August 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

You know, lemme ask you this - if CERMLs are too hot to boat effectively and their JJ animation is removed or JJs were fixed or even removed, how tough would they be? What's a good TW build that doesn't use the CERMLs? The more I play them and I more I see builds with them it feels like their real benefit was 2 things -

Only Clan mech with really flexible JJs and an incredibly wiggly JJ animation.

Only Clan mech that combines boating CERMLs with the tonnage and speed to cool them and keep them at optimal range.

The TW doesn't need Victored, so that it's garbage.

More to the point how about we un-nerf the Victor and every other IS mech that got absolutely intentionally *trashed* so that it couldn't accidentally be construed a not totally gimped unless you do X with it?

I see and work with plenty of upper tier players in CGBI.
C-SRM6 & 4s
MPLs
LPLs
ER PPC
UAC5s
LRMS40-50s

C-ERMLs are nice, but far from the heart of everything. And that doesn't even touch their laughably broken rear hitboxes (see Konving's test) where I am running around with all of 2 rear armor.

Also, C-ERMLs are the go to on EVERY Chassis.

So why is only the T-Wolf/S-Crow and a MeTA-dIRE wOLF CONSIDERED BROken?

Calamus, on 30 August 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Bishop, what are you talking about, the Timberwolf is garbage; bad for the whole bloody game? It's no more unbalanced than the Nova, the Banshee, or the Boom Jager

You should know better. IS mechs with good pilots take down Clan mechs on the field all the time. There is nothing wrong with the balance of clan/IS. There is a HUGE unbalance of less skilled gamers with loud voices and a lot of forum time.

I do know better Calamus. The TWolf is the new Meta. In CGB and out. Don't let fondness for a chassis blind you to that.

[Belkor]

"It seems as though all of us that paid $50-$500 for clan mechs are being hit with the old bait and switch tactic by PGI. You bait us in with these new shiny clan mechs with fancy new weapons systems so we bite, and buy some of them. To balance the new weapon systems..."

Pay to win whiner baby.

Edited by Belkor, 30 August 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Xarian]

Balance changes are made for the good of the game. Better game = more fun, regardless of how much your favorite stuff gets nerfed.

[InspectorG]

Johnny Z, on 30 August 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

And this may sound a bit harsh, but I hope this game never even contemplates doing the rock paper scissors way because that isnt adult game design its a childs game design. That goes for any game that uses such weak game design.

Rock, paper, scissor can work...if done properly.
Fire Emblem is basically that mechanic and most of their games have pretty deep strategy/tactics.
There are many adult boardgames that use said mechanic and require lots of thought to do well.
Complexity just to be complex is often a sign of bad design as well.

[Pht]

Fantastic Tuesday, on 30 August 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Except they didn't reveal any details about their stats before release. All they said is that they would not be ton-for-ton better than IS mechs. You were buying into uncertainty.

So I don't really see where the bait is.

At least for those who kept up, and have watched things, we knew the balance would never be settled and the clan tech wouldn't be clan tech.

Not sure how easy this was to predict for people not following things closely... much less who don't have a good handle on the lore.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it bait and switch though.

Edited by Pht, 30 August 2014 - 03:41 PM.

[bobF]

Green Mamba, on 30 August 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

To Relatively New Players, do your research into a games ( any Game but especially this one ) History and trends of its LEAD DEVELOPER before deciding to purchase the game or items in that game so that you can make a good educated guess if you should do so.Games have a track record to go by

This is just some outstanding, simple, and lucid advice. The prime reason why i haven't spent a penny on this game, still squeeze fun out of it, and avoid contributing dollars to hucksters and incompetents. With the proper leadership, this game could've brought some real innovation to PvP and "RvR" style play (for anyone who played warhammer online, or EvE); with sectors of space switching control, player unit rivalry, perhaps even a political meta like EvE corporations, it could've been a contendah. Regardless, shooting giant stompy robots remains amusing for now.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I really do understand where the OP is coming form.

When the Clan's first released I said to myself, "No way in hell am I spending real money on them because PGI will just screw them up." So for the first 3-4 weeks I only played my IS mechs and you know what I found out? Clan mechs weren't OP and my IS mechs could compete just fine. I also kept reading the forums and for those firs 3-4 week all you read about was people congratulating PGI on how well balanced Clan mechs were and in that entire time PGI did absolutely nothing to change or balance Clan mechs or weapons so I broke down and decided to buy my two favorites out of the bundle and got a Timber Wolf and Stormcrow.

Guess what I figured out after them? They weren't OPed. In fact while both were good and fun to play, they weren't my top performers.

In any case, all is good in the world. Clan mechs are fun and it has been a month since release without and major changes so what can go wrong right?

Well now we know. MONTHS after their release, right about the time that cash sales have dropped off, they start nerfing everything. Hell they even nerfed all my favorite IS mechs as well when they nerfed the JJs for some still yet unexplained reason.

So now I am sitting on several hundred dollars of mechs, both IS and Clans that aren't the mechs I purchased and I am not happy about it at all.

[Sandpit]

Fantastic Tuesday, on 30 August 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Except they didn't reveal any details about their stats before release. All they said is that they would not be ton-for-ton better than IS mechs. You were buying into uncertainty.

So I don't really see where the bait is.

Which is EXACTLY why some of refuse to hand pgi money anymore.
Buy this!
What's it do?
Well it's really cool!
Yes but what are the stats?
Just give us your money!
Well for $50+ I need details...
Just buy it! It's totally worth it!

Cathy, on 30 August 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

You have three choices. well four I guess.

1 Suck it up, and adapt

2 Stop playing

3 continue playing and don't spend another penny on a PGI product again.

4 you feel really bad about the cash you spent you can allways ask visa to try recover it if you feel PGI did bait and switch, but you take the fourth action win or lose the claim you won't be coming back in a hurry, or ever..

QFT

[Bishop Steiner]

Viktor Drake, on 30 August 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

I really do understand where the OP is coming form.

When the Clan's first released I said to myself, "No way in hell am I spending real money on them because PGI will just screw them up." So for the first 3-4 weeks I only played my IS mechs and you know what I found out? Clan mechs weren't OP and my IS mechs could compete just fine. I also kept reading the forums and for those firs 3-4 week all you read about was people congratulating PGI on how well balanced Clan mechs were and in that entire time PGI did absolutely nothing to change or balance Clan mechs or weapons so I broke down and decided to buy my two favorites out of the bundle and got a Timber Wolf and Stormcrow.

Guess what I figured out after them? They weren't OPed. In fact while both were good and fun to play, they weren't my top performers.

In any case, all is good in the world. Clan mechs are fun and it has been a month since release without and major changes so what can go wrong right?

Well now we know. MONTHS after their release, right about the time that cash sales have dropped off, they start nerfing everything. Hell they even nerfed all my favorite IS mechs as well when they nerfed the JJs for some still yet unexplained reason.

So now I am sitting on several hundred dollars of mechs, both IS and Clans that aren't the mechs I purchased and I am not happy about it at all.

Sorry to hear that, but if you are trying to claim the TW isn't broken with a straight face, you may need to see a therapist, my friend.

[oldradagast]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 August 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

yawn.

Lol.

F2P perpetual game, son. It's pretty commonly understood that NOTHING is set in stone. Balance changes always happen.

If you spent 50-500$ thinking your were going to get some OP p2w keys to the kingdom, you definitely deserve all the sorrow you bought.

(BTW; I bought the Masakari package, and am one of the first to be HAPPY they are trying to balance the bloody things. Garbage like the Timberwolf are bad for the whole bloody game. Get over it.)

Basically.

While I'm not a huge fan of PGI's often half-baked attempts at balance, or they bad habit of putting something that costs real money on sale a week before nerfing it, this "please don't nerf my overpowered Clan mechs" whining is getting old.

To those who laughably claim that PGI "cheated" them somehow: There's no "bait and switch" by reducing Clan mech power to IS levels unless PGI PROMISED a certain minimum level of overpowered performance (which they didn't) or unless you ASSUMED the Clan mechs would be overpowered and only bought them for that reason... and if that's the case, good luck getting any sympathy from me. You still got whatever mechs you paid for... cry me a river that IS mechs may actually pose an equal threat when this balancing pass is done.

Edited by oldradagast, 30 August 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 30 August 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

You know, lemme ask you this - if CERMLs are too hot to boat effectively and their JJ animation is removed or JJs were fixed or even removed, how tough would they be? What's a good TW build that doesn't use the CERMLs? The more I play them and I more I see builds with them it feels like their real benefit was 2 things -

Only Clan mech with really flexible JJs and an incredibly wiggly JJ animation.

Only Clan mech that combines boating CERMLs with the tonnage and speed to cool them and keep them at optimal range.

The TW doesn't need Victored, so that it's garbage.

More to the point how about we un-nerf the Victor and every other IS mech that got absolutely intentionally *trashed* so that it couldn't accidentally be construed a not totally gimped unless you do X with it?

4 MPLs and 4 SRM4s was a pretty glorious loadout, with 3 JJs and 22 DHS and a TCmk1, I think.

It was a Wubfox combined with a Splatter, with 10 tons of Awesome that kept it cool and flying.


I assume fixing the JJ animation and slight increase of the CT nosecone would bring it down a fair bit.
In the 5 matches I played in the above loadout, I averaged 802 damage and got 16 kills, on a mech I've never used before. It is quite powerful.

[Joseph Mallan]

oldradagast, on 30 August 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Basically.

While I'm not a huge fan of PGI's often half-baked attempts at balance, or they bad habit of putting something that costs real money on sale a week before nerfing it, this "please don't nerf my overpowered Clan mechs" whining is getting old.

To those who laughably claim that PGI "cheated" them somehow: There's no "bait and switch" by reducing Clan mech power to IS levels unless PGI PROMISED a certain minimum level of overpowered performance (which they didn't) or unless you ASSUMED the Clan mechs would be overpowered and only bought them for that reason... and if that's the case, good luck getting any sympathy from me. You still got whatever mechs you paid for... cry me a river that IS mechs may actually pose an equal threat when this balancing pass is done.

I think the weakness of our IS Mechs is our own doing! We P & M ed about all our OP builds now when they Might have been just right to match Clan Builds we have next to nothing.

I personally still want my Clan Opponents to be tougher than me. Force me to get smarter.