46 replies to this topic

[Fire and Salt]

Still in the rough planning stages.




PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H110 94.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Mushkin Redline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Corsair Force LS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.99 @ Micro Center)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair Air 540 ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit) ($128.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1538.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-30 16:28 EDT-0400





Here is my reasoning process for the parts:
(Note that I am here for criticism, as I'm mostly a software guy, not a hardware guy.)



• Processor: A fast quad core is probably better for gaming than a not-quite-as-fast 6 core, right? Most games aren't optimized for THAT many threads... What about MWO?
I am planning on getting a liquid cooling system because I am going to overclock the system at its mid-life point to extend the use of the system. That way, if I mess it up, I can just buy a newer, faster processor and I am not out as much $$$ as if i fried a new component. I figure that liquid cooling isn't really an electronic component, so the prices will probably not drop that much - no reason to not buy it now. Should reduce the wear on the processor a little bit too.

• Video Card: I currently have a 1080p monitor that I use at 77 degrees FOV, it is 23.5 inches. I want to be able to play with the same pixel size and zoom, but more peripheral vision. Setting my FOV to 90 degrees and using a 31-inch monitor with 2560 × 1440 resolution would basically be a free peripheral vision gain, without shrinking what is currently on screen. If I get a 27/28 inch, that should be sufficient, but I don't want another 24 inch.

My current monitor is 60hz and has a 5ms response time. I absolutely cannot stand it, and I think it is a blurry piece of crap. I basically think this about every monitor I use. I still have an old CRT that I refuse to throw out because I hate the blurring on most flat panels. I eventually want 120hz + and i want 2ms response time or less (Though I am not going to buy this at the same time I build the PC for $$ reasons, I DO want the PC to be able to fill all these pixels.)

I don't care about color fidelity, I only care about crispness. I mostly program and play games, so for both cases I prefer a responsive panel over one that produces perfect colors. I might end up buying the super-expensive Asus ROG swift because it has 1ms response time, and literally every other monitor that I have been able to find that has that resolution is 5ms or worse. All the other 1ms monitors seem to be 1080p.

http://pcpartpicker....T=1,4&H=120,240

This is the only monitor that is of my desired resolution and response time, and it comes with G-Sync. Thats not really my motivation for wanting the monitor, but I figure I might as well get an NVida card, because it isn't going to hurt either way, and might be quite useful if I do end up getting that monitor. It will probably take a month or two to actually get it because the demand is so high, but I imagine if there are any other high-res monitors that come out with such a great response time, they will have the same issue as well...

Overpriced, maybe, but it seems that this monitor is in a league of its own. My current blurry monitor gives me headaches when I try to scroll through long sections of text to find stuff (I am a programmer so I spend soo much time in front of the screen.)

So yes, I will be getting an NVida card... but I am not necissarily sure of exactly what model I will get. My plan is to build a system that will support 2 way SLI so that I can buy a 2nd card at my systems mid-life point.

I've heard that the 770s are a worthwhile and noticeable upgrade from the 760s.
I have also heard that 2GB is sufficient for HD, but you will want more if you are pushing a higher resolution. Hence the 4GB card.

Equally important to the price of the card now - what will the price be of a 2nd identical card in 2 years? I don't want to buy an uncommon card, because it seems like the prices on those actually go UP sometimes due to people wanting a 2nd matched card.

• RAM: I am under the impression that any more than 8GB isnt going to do me any good right now. 8 gigs (4gb X2) of Mushkin redline memory is pretty cheap right now. DDR3-1866 is as fast as it gets with 1.5v and doesn't cost much more than 1600. I hear that going much higher offers little benefit anyways. I can upgrade later by adding 2 more more sticks of the same memory type (right? it is suggested that they be the same brand, speed and size, but they need not be from the same box. or am i wrong about this?). Maybe I will eventually ditch the old sticks and get 8gb x 4 if i really need it. Mushkin Redline memory is supposedly good for overclocking too.
Should i just spend the extra money and get 16 GB (8x2) now?

• Case: I don't LAN party, so I don't care how big it is, at all. This case seems like it has the best airflow. I don't plan on liquid cooling my RAM or video cards (too much work) so it seems like I should go for the best airflow possible. It has all the right specs to fit what I want to cram in there; I also think it looks pretty cool.

• SSD: The Corsair Force LS 240 GB is pretty fast on I/O from what I have read, and it is not that expensive. 240GB should be enough that I can install the OS and all of my programs on the SSD, so everything should be fast.

• HDD: Toshiba 2TB because its reasonably priced and probably has all the storage I will need for the next 5 years. If not, I can always add another...

• PSU: PC Part Picker says I will need 675 watts with a 2nd ram stick and a 2nd power supply, so I am looking at a 750 watt. I am planning on overclocking in a few years though... so maybe I shoud get an 850? I know that Power Supplys getweaker over time.

• Optical Drive: Umm... can I install windows without one of these? Because I don't think I have used mine on this PC in about 6 months.




So.... where am I going wrong? Any good suggestions? My target is around $1,500 but I am willing to pay a little more - and would gladly pay a little less haha.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 30 August 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Goose]

Seems about right. WARNING: REVISED NUMBERS!



The SSD market seems to move slow enough that I wonder how I've not heard of this model.

MW:O has twelve named thread, that you can assign to 6 different cores; But once you have the Hz for the one problamatic thread, everybody else seems to fit nicly onto an i5.

At this price point, and with the stated overclock aspirations, I'd find a video card with a crossflow cooling arrangement, as these axial fan models put their heat inside the case, with your CPU.

Edited by Goose, 31 August 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tBZ6NG
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....NG/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Swiftech H220 55.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($100.00 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($113.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($76.50 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($118.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital RE4-GP 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($85.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master N300 ATX Mid Tower Case ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Raidmax 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1391.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-30 18:39 EDT-0400

H220 is a better cooler, plus all it needs is dual 120mm mounting spot for the Rad vs a 280mm therefore a smaller case is compatible
MOBO is a bit cheaper but still allows SLI and is a good brand
RAM is 1 CAS Extra but a bit cheaper, still 1866MHz, 1.5V and a Good Brand
SSD is a Samsung 840 EVO, IIRC it's the most referred when it comes to SSD
WD is most Reliable when it comes to mechanical HDDs
Case is Smaller and supports chosen cooler
PSU got more than enough power and it's 80+ Gold while still being Modular
Windows 7 vs Windows 8.1 IMO

Total is under $1500 by ~$110

also, windows can be installed using a formatted USB Drive therefore no need for a CD/DVD Drive: http://www.microsoft..._usbdvd_dwnTool

Edited by Lord Letto, 30 August 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[Goose]

Lord Letto, on 30 August 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

RAM is 1 CAS Extra but a bit cheaper

[Goose]

Oh: lol Raidmax

Paul Johnson @ HardOCP said:

The Bottom Line

The Raidmax RX-1000AE is quite the contradiction and this results in a passing, but not exactly impressive, unit. There were no tests in which this unit failed, but that does not necessarily make its performance outstanding. Indeed, when compared to its marketing this unit was sorely lacking on the efficiency front and the 1 year warranty support for this unit is laughable. On top of that, the voltage regulation was not great and the unit was a bit noisier in the upper 20% of its output than we have seen from a number of other units in this DC output capacity range. However, all is not lost as this unit did post significant improvements over the previous unit based on this basic design from Andyson we reviewed when it comes to DC Output Quality, the general build quality is good, and at $149.99 this unit represents the one of the cheapest 1000W units on the market today that has passed our testing. As such, on a strictly dollar based value assessment, this unit is a good buy so long as users are only looking for a power supply that will provides 1000 watts of power inside of the ATX12v specification limits and nothing more. Raidmax has on its hands a passing first offering, now hopefully Raidmax will take this unit and build upon this to develop some truly excellent products. And someone needs to do something about the fictitious 80Plus efficiency numbers that are not represented properly in the retail product.

[Rogue Jedi]

Fire and Salt, on 30 August 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Equally important to the price of the card now - what will the price be of a 2nd identical card in 2 years? I don't want to buy an uncommon card, because it seems like the prices on those actually go UP sometimes due to people wanting a 2nd matched card.

Something else to consider, in 2 years it is very possible you will get a bigger performance increase buying a new upper mid range card than by buying a second 2 year old card, at about the same price, I recently upgraded a friends 3 year old system, replacing cards which at release cost £300 each with one new card costing £180, he noticed a big performance increase, and was able to run some games at max settings with better FPS than he had been getting at medium settings on the old cards

Fire and Salt, on 30 August 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

• Optical Drive: Umm... can I install windows without one of these? Because I don't think I have used mine on this PC in about 6 months.

Yes Windows can be installed without a DVD drive, from a bootable USB drive, a quick web search will find you instructions on creating one.

Alternatively you could just use the DVD drive from your current PC for the installation, just connect the power and data cables from your new PC to the old drive

[Fire and Salt]

@Goose:
Thanks for taking the time to plug all that stuff into the calculator there.

I was thinking that 750w would still be enough if i decided to get a 2nd video card. PC Part Picker seems to think it is sufficient for 2 video cards, but the program you used would likely indicate otherwise.

And, I was concerned about the heat from the video cards to be sure... I was thinking that this extremely well ventilated case might help that situation. I figured that the extra case heat would be no problem for the CPU with the large cooling system that I was looking at.

If the case would help mitigate the heat from the graphics cards, that would be a 1 time purchase, so there is some advantage to that.



@Lord Letto:
I will have to look into that MoBo, SSD and HDD.
I don't really see the attraction to the ripjaws RAM, since it is barely cheaper than the redline, and has 10% worse CAS.

I looked at raidmax power supplies (cheapest bronze certified PS I saw), but I saw too many bad reviews. I would rather stick with a known brand, even if it costs a little more.

I was also under the impression that you got downgrade rights from windows 8.1 to windows 7. It would probably cost much more to upgrade from windows 7 -> 8, as opposed to jut buying windows 8 right away.
Myself - I hated windows 8 when I used it. But I've heard that windows 8.1 basically restores it to windows 7 like functionality. If this is true, I might as well stick with 8.1.
I would actually kind of like having both a win 7 and an 8.1 PC just because I am a developer and it might come in handy for testing someday...



@Rogue Jedi
Hmm... I might just yank the DVD-RW drive out of my gateway and throw it into the new one (its barely ever used)
I have a CD-RW drive laying around (I think) that i can put into my current PC. Current PC will be getting demoted anyways...

[Goose]

Fire and Salt, on 30 August 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

And, I was concerned about the heat from the video cards to be sure... I was thinking that this extremely well ventilated case might help that situation. I figured that the extra case heat would be no problem for the CPU with the large cooling system that I was looking at.

Maybe?

See: I'm an air cooler for my CPU, and it knew when I had an axial fan card in there … As did the I/O Hub on the motherboard, to which choice of cooler matters not.

The other thing about axial fan cards is if you run more then one: Will the motherboard allow a one-slot gap between the two, so the upper card can breath? It was a thing with mobos' for Sandy Bridge where they would allow for it, but I would double-check if I was you.

Two GTX 770s seems to call for 838Ws, with a +12V rail of 62A …

http://www.extreme.o...n.com/PSUEngine

Edited by Goose, 01 September 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Eh CPU way overkill for gaming. RAM you won't notice the difference between 1600 and 1866 although the cost isnt much between the 2.

For 2$ less (a whole 2$!)

You could build this

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MPR26h

Forget SLI, by the time you come to need more GPU power, your better off just rolling the next gen GPU you can afford.

[Flapdrol]

meh, if you look at reviews of 770's in sli you see system power consumption of about 550W, and that's usually using a much more power hungry x79 sytem (compared to z97 s1150).

If you add up all the worst case power consumptions of the parts you'll get about 650W, but in the real world you'll never get close. A good quality 750W should be plenty.

nvidia recommends a really high wattage to make sure that piece of crap psu's running on a power hungry cpu/board in a system full of harddrives is still safe.

I would also not recommend sli, but I'd probably go for a 780 instead of a 780Ti, maybe overclock it .

and for ssd's I'd stick to samsung or crucial.

Edited by Flapdrol, 31 August 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[MadTulip]

- Get more RAM. Its cheap and effective compared to cpu and gpu.
- Spend less on the casing, just get some cheap stuff here. Its just a metal box.

for CPU and GPU i would take a look at theese spead mesurments.:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/
They also do a power/price listing where you can see what is effective (fast but not too expansive).

i recomment nvidia and intel chips.

SSD is a good idea - boots the OS a lot faster if you install OS on that drive. put dead big files, like music and videos on the 2T magnetic drive.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Flapdrol, on 31 August 2014 - 12:41 AM, said:

meh, if you look at reviews of 770's in sli you see system power consumption of about 550W, and that's usually using a much more power hungry x79 sytem (compared to z97 s1150).

If you add up all the worst case power consumptions of the parts you'll get about 650W, but in the real world you'll never get close. A good quality 750W should be plenty.

nvidia recommends a really high wattage to make sure that piece of crap psu's running on a power hungry cpu/board in a system full of harddrives is still safe.

I would also not recommend sli, but I'd probably go for a 780 instead of a 780Ti, maybe overclock it .

and for ssd's I'd stick to samsung or crucial.

Tbh if it were me, i would drop to a 770 4GB and spend the rest on an actual full water cooling system and overclock the crap out of everything

[Fire and Salt]

DV McKenna, on 31 August 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Eh CPU way overkill for gaming. RAM you won't notice the difference between 1600 and 1866 although the cost isnt much between the 2.

I have heard that Mechwarrior Online, unlike most games, is often CPU limited rather than graphics card limited.

DV McKenna, on 31 August 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Forget SLI, by the time you come to need more GPU power, your better off just rolling the next gen GPU you can afford.

I have seen plenty of benchmarks that indicate that two 770s kick quite a bit of ass.
Example:


Would be nice to see benchmarks for MWO

Edited by Fire and Salt, 31 August 2014 - 03:38 AM.

[Fire and Salt]

MadTulip, on 31 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

- Get more RAM. Its cheap and effective compared to cpu and gpu.
- Spend less on the casing, just get some cheap stuff here. Its just a metal box.

for CPU and GPU i would take a look at theese spead mesurments.:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/
They also do a power/price listing where you can see what is effective (fast but not too expansive).

i recomment nvidia and intel chips.

SSD is a good idea - boots the OS a lot faster if you install OS on that drive. put dead big files, like music and videos on the 2T magnetic drive.

thanks for the link.
770 seems to not only be a solid performer, but reasonably solid in terms of performance per dollar as well:
http://www.videocard...GTX+770&id=2531

The reason i am considering that case is because it seems to have great cooling capability. it also includes 3 fans so that will save me a few bucks. liquid cooling the graphics cards seems like a lot of work, so i figured i would just go for the most well-vented case possible. Also - what can i say - i like the fact that is is wierd looking.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Fire and Salt, on 31 August 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

I have heard that Mechwarrior Online, unlike most games, is often CPU limited rather than graphics card limited.




I have seen plenty of benchmarks that indicate that two 770s quite a bit of ass.
Example:


Would be nice to see benchmarks for MWO

Yes MWO is CPU limited, but you will notice no difference between the I5 and I7, except the I7 will cost you alot more that could be spent elsewhere, and never build a PC with just a single game in mind.

two 770's do kick ass, for significantly more power and more heat than a single 780 and with the 800 series not too far away will be outdated in short order (not that it makes then bad), but your only aim is achieve playable framerates, 50FPS and above.
given MWO's poor optimization that won't change anytime soon, shooting for any more is literally burning cash.

And your also forgetting thas MWO has no SLI support at this time.

[Fire and Salt]

Flapdrol, on 31 August 2014 - 12:41 AM, said:

If you add up all the worst case power consumptions of the parts you'll get about 650W, but in the real world you'll never get close. A good quality 750W should be plenty.

Maybe I will get this one:
http://pcpartpicker....ply-120g10750xr

Reasonably priced, and it has a gold rating. Seems to be higher quality from what I have read.
Besides, the efficiency may just pay for itself...
(Since I live in Florida, I will also have to air condition away any extra waste heat, so the actual saving may even greater than one would expect...)

[Oderint dum Metuant]

The EVGA unit is good.

[Fire and Salt]

DV McKenna, on 31 August 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Yes MWO is CPU limited, but you will notice no difference between the I5 and I7, except the I7 will cost you a lot more that could be spent elsewhere, and never build a PC with just a single game in mind.

I haven't seen a 4ghz i5.
Fastest I have seen is 3.5ghz.

My motivation for that processor was the GHz, not the fact that it is an i7 instead of an i5.
(Also, it is supposedly quite easy to OC to ~4.5GHz as long as it has liquid cooling)





Sucks that MWO doesnt support SLI... I didn't forget... I never knew it the first place lol.

Probably doesn't matter - I don't expect to upgrade for MWO - I expect to upgrade for some future (yet unknown) game.

At that time, I will have to investigate if SLI 770s are more practical than a completely new card.

I certainly see no reason to buy a MoBo without SLI capability, or to get a case that wont fit 2... but maybe I should skimp on the power supply until (if) its needed, though... Supposedly PSUs are most efficient at 50%... right? SO maybe it would pay off anyways... Hmm....

Edited by Fire and Salt, 31 August 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Flapdrol]

there are overclockable i5's as well, $100 cheaper.

anyway, another thing to keep in mind is nvidia will probably release a new series of graphics cards in a little over a month. Because you have to wait on the rog swift anyway, maybe you could use an old gpu until then, this game isn't that heavy on the gpu with modest settings (but always cpu heavy)

[ninjitsu]

I've got my i5 4670k at 4.5 on air. Wasn't very hard to get it there either. The 4690k's are supposed to OC even better.