116 replies to this topic

[Mandolorian]

Couldnt find a place to actually ask one of the Devs without making it somewhat of an off topic question due to the amount of work they are doing at the moment.

With the last few patches we have seen jump jets and people who like to "poptart" get nerfed hard. Thank you for that. But, what i wanted to really ask was with the nerf to poptarting and firing while jump jetting, When will they take the nerf hammer off of the Victor battlemech? Seeing as it was nerfed so badly because it made an incredible jump shot mech. Will they ever take all of the negatives from it to make it more battle worthy? Innersphere wont be seeing any omni pods for their mechs for the next couple of years if we stay true to the time frame set by PGI. Using a mech that has nothing but straight red negatives for buffs seems a bit harsh now, seeing as how the jets have been handled. Can anyone give me a real update on this or will the Victor remain one of the solo mechs to be forever nerfed?

[El Bandito]

My Catapults cry out for the reverting of the mobility nerf, which happened ages ago.

That, and the stupid ear nerf.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 August 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[Kjudoon]

My catapults and Victors are both stripped and waiting for a rebalancing or hitbox fix.

[XX Sulla XX]

Hopefully some day they make them twist a bit faster.

[xe N on]

Tahribator, on 31 August 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

Judging by the hardpoints the Victors are meant to be brawlers, but they were taken over by the competitive community for a whole another role.

Funny, after the nerfs and poptarting isn't what the cool kids do anymore, this 'Mech is revealed to be a very mediocre one. I think torso mobility is still fine after the nerfs, but the hitboxes are just not good.

The Victor suffers from a common problem that is being the lowest weight of a weight class. Nowadays, as a Victor you have to mess with war machines like dire wolves or much more mobile but equally strong timber wolves.

As a Victor brawler you really want to use STD engines, especially after the twist nerf it is more difficult to protect the side torso from being blown away.

However, using a STD engine you still want to go with 325, otherwise you are too immobile. This leaves few space for heavier weapons. But for lighter weapons as SRMs or ML beside of the 9S there is not much options because of lacking hardpoints. Battlemaster and Stalker can boat a hell lot of more MLs and SRMs being not only heavier but consequently also better armed.

This reduces the Victor to the role of a jump sniper, a role that was heavily nerfed. Brawling with a Victor is not much fun, at least for me, I prefer my SRM Griffins and SHDs for that.

It's a real pitty, because the Victor is a quite sexy mech ... my rust in the hanger and I rarely see one on the battle field.

Edited by xe N on, 31 August 2014 - 02:12 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Just as a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

So are games only as good as their lowest common denominator of gamer.

If victors are too mobile for n00bs to hit, they need to be nerfed.

Because the design methodology behind gaming in general says, if its not so easy a caveman can do it, its OP and needs malusing to "balance" things out...

.

[Redshift2k5]

Victor was too mobile for an Assault mech. An assault mech with the same/similar loadout but more armor than a Heavy has to be less maneuverable as a tradeoff.

If you want a more maneuverable/responsive mech, move down a weight class.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mandolorian, on 30 August 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Couldnt find a place to actually ask one of the Devs without making it somewhat of an off topic question due to the amount of work they are doing at the moment.

With the last few patches we have seen jump jets and people who like to "poptart" get nerfed hard. Thank you for that. But, what i wanted to really ask was with the nerf to poptarting and firing while jump jetting, When will they take the nerf hammer off of the Victor battlemech? Seeing as it was nerfed so badly because it made an incredible jump shot mech. Will they ever take all of the negatives from it to make it more battle worthy? Innersphere wont be seeing any omni pods for their mechs for the next couple of years if we stay true to the time frame set by PGI. Using a mech that has nothing but straight red negatives for buffs seems a bit harsh now, seeing as how the jets have been handled. Can anyone give me a real update on this or will the Victor remain one of the solo mechs to be forever nerfed?

Don't forget the game breaking evil of the Catapult K2 (and it's stupidly redesigned PPCs)

Those Gaussapults are just breaking the game!!!

Redshift2k5, on 31 August 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Victor was too mobile for an Assault mech. An assault mech with the same/similar loadout but more armor than a Heavy has to be less maneuverable as a tradeoff.

If you want a more maneuverable/responsive mech, move down a weight class.

Groovy. Having the SAME Maneuverability as an Atlas, a mech slower and 20 tons heavier though , makes no sense either. The VTR was a glorified Heavy. It should move like one. It should be a small amount less agile than a Cataphract or Orion, not a crippled old man with a walker.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Redshift2k5, on 31 August 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Victor was too mobile for an Assault mech. An assault mech with the same/similar loadout but more armor than a Heavy has to be less maneuverable as a tradeoff.

If you want a more maneuverable/responsive mech, move down a weight class.

It was "too mobile" for the least skilled players in the game to deal with.

Dumbing down mobility to a point where Victors are so easy to hit a caveman could do it.

Forcing us all to conform to standards set by the lowest common denominator -- isn't a good standard to follow in terms of game development.

I know that some of you wouldn't have a prayer of hitting a Vic if its mobility hadn't been nerfed.

That doesn't mean nerfing Victor mobility makes the game balanced.

It just means we're dumbing everything down to a point where chimpanzees could play this game.

.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 31 August 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[Carrie Harder]

Redshift2k5, on 31 August 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Victor was too mobile for an Assault mech. An assault mech with the same/similar loadout but more armor than a Heavy has to be less maneuverable as a tradeoff.

If you want a more maneuverable/responsive mech, move down a weight class.

80 tons lies in the exact middle between 75 tons and 85 tons. Therefore, an 80 ton robot should probably have an agility rating somewhere right in between a 75 ton and 85 robot.

80 ton robots should never, ever, not in a million damn years, move like a 100 ton robot (the latter of which gets more armor and firepower).

Edited by Carrie Harder, 31 August 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Redshift2k5, on 31 August 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Victor was too mobile for an Assault mech. An assault mech with the same/similar loadout but more armor than a Heavy has to be less maneuverable as a tradeoff.

If you want a more maneuverable/responsive mech, move down a weight class.

Yep, 5 tons extra weight makes it turn 20 tons more sluggish. Sounds balanced and logical.


How about them 75 tonners? Those should turn like 130 tonners, cause, you know, they are SO CLOSE to the assault class. PLZ nerf.



I do hope you've noticed the sarcasm. 80 tonners should turn closer to 75 tonners with the same engine, rather than the same as 100 tonners with the same engine.

[Carrie Harder]

Mcgral18, on 31 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

How about them 75 tonners? Those should turn like 130 tonners, cause, you know, they are SO CLOSE to the assault class. PLZ nerf.

130 tons, you say?



Well...it's 135, but close enough.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrie Harder, on 31 August 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

80 tons lies in the exact middle between 75 tons and 85 tons. Therefore, an 80 ton robot should probably have an agility rating somewhere right in between a 75 ton and 85 robot.

80 ton robots should never, ever, not in a million damn years, move like a 100 ton robot (the latter of which gets more armor and firepower).

And the agility should be a BASELINE. And baselines gets altered to the individual chassis based using Quirks, based on Role.

Some mechs, like the Victor, are designed for a role requiring agility. Some like the Awesome, are not. So while Ia VTR should not be more agile that a 70 or 75 tonner designed as an infighter, like say, the Grasshopper, it is entirely sensible that it would be more agile than a Fire Support unit unit like a Jagermech, Catapult or Archer, or even a"Mec of the Line" like the Orion (though in that case the agility advantage may not be in twist rate, but simply in being able to jump, or the like) quiaff?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 August 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Carrie Harder]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 August 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

And the agility should be a BASELINE. And baselines gets altered to the individual chassis based using Quirks, based on Role.

Some mechs, like the Victor, are designed for a role requiring agility. Some like the Awesome, are not. So while Ia VTR should not be more agile that a 70 or 75 tonner designed as an infighter, like say, the Grasshopper, it is entirely sensible that it would be more agile than a Fire Support unit unit like a Jagermech, Catapult or Archer, quiaff?

That too.

The Charger in particular would probably get to move almost like a medium in exchange for pooptastic hardpoints (but it would still be able to carry more than 5 Small Lasers ).

[FatYak]

if they tried to hit the timberwolf with the same hammer they hit the victor with, there would be hell to pay.

I mean, geeze, a 75 tonner should not handle like a 55 tonner...right???

PGI, fix my victors!

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrie Harder, on 31 August 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

That too.

The Charger in particular would probably get to move almost like a medium in exchange for pooptastic hardpoints (but it would still be able to carry more than 5 Small Lasers ).

Yup, especially since it was designed to compete with the much more agile Wasp and Stinger. I would say a Charger might move close to a ShadowHawk for agility.

Other mechs, like the Marauder, I would give extremely wide arm movement, and a generous twist, but maybe not a superfast twist rate. The Warhammer, I might give a more limited twist, but make it twist faster, (kind of like the Griffin/Shadowhawk compromise), etc. There is much that should be done, but one thing's for sure, the VTR is over nerfed. Keep it's jumping as is. Fine, that is where the "problem" lay. But as others have noted, remove the ridiculous bevy of negative chassis quirks.

I suppose on the bright side, it ensures I stay mostly in Medium Mechs, since my favorite Assault is a bad joke now.

FatYak, on 31 August 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

if they tried to hit the timberwolf with the same hammer they hit the victor with, there would be hell to pay.

I mean, geeze, a 75 tonner should not handle like a 55 tonner...right???

PGI, fix my victors!

don't look now, but get that checkbook ready. I promise you, the Twolf is squarely in the sights of Paul's NerfCannon.

[Carrie Harder]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 August 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

don't look now, but get that checkbook ready. I promise you, the Twolf is squarely in the sights of Paul's NerfCannon.

I get the feeling that my Ares picture from above sums up what he intends to do...

[Kell Commander]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 August 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Groovy. Having the SAME Maneuverability as an Atlas, a mech slower and 20 tons heavier though , makes no sense either. The VTR was a glorified Heavy. It should move like one. It should be a small amount less agile than a Cataphract or Orion, not a crippled old man with a walker.

This about sums up my opinion of this topic.

[Hagoromo Gitsune]

VICTOR in MWO realm...

[FatYak]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 August 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

don't look now, but get that checkbook ready. I promise you, the Twolf is squarely in the sights of Paul's NerfCannon.

If they would just devlop and test their content properly, they wouldn't need to nerf everything they release though