23 replies to this topic

[Topshot Tiger]

I love medium mechs, but I haven't had a chance to try the vindicator yet.. Is he any good? He didn't look too much different than any other mediums.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

In before someone says Shawk and Griffin is better.

But yes,its good,very tough for a 45-tonner,xl-friendly,waiting for the 1X-variant,i use my St.Ives mainly as a SRM-bomber with 3 medium lasers and 2 ASRM6 launchers.
And it flies with 3+ jump jets.

[Bigbacon]

check out the build/discussion thread in the medium section.

I have all 4 variants and they are decent little support brawlers but don't really accel at anything but they are good time and they do take a good beating for a 45 ton mech.

My biggest complaint is their ability to go up slopes. They absolutely suck at it. Other mediums i've used dont seem to have this problem but these seems to drop to near zero on the even the smallest of inclines.

you can get some bulds that can still pack a punch for its size.

[ForkTheSpoonWrecker]

I dislike the very low slung arms on this mech.

[Blukrr]

I think it's not a very balanced mech overall, it doesn't have much armor on the arms and it's too slow for a medium mech making it an easy prey.

You must definitely equip a XL engine in order to be more competitive on the speed side, but this is a trade off.

Jump jets it's must a to improve your surprise effect, this mech is good at shooting from unsuspecting places like from over hills and stuff.

This mech would be better if you could equip a bigger weapon on the head, making a good PPC sniper build, but the best weapon you can equip is a medium laser.

A nice build would be a tag laser on the head and a LRM+artemis plus 2 mediums.

[Inveramsay]

somewhere between not very good and bad, they do however make juicy targets for everyone else.

[stealthraccoon]

I did really like it, but I can't say it is a "good" mech.

The 1AA is the star, followed by the SIB then 1R and 1X.

They can be really durable with the standard engines (loses arms frequently, which isn't always terrible).

[Duymon]

Vindicators play a lot like Blackjacks.

Typically 225 / 235 engine cap 45-tonner.

Unlike the Blackjack, Vindies have very limited hardpoints and all of them are save the hero are quirked for PPCs.

All Vindies have jumpjets and more often than not you'll find yourself pop-tarting quite a lot because vindies don't feel maneuverable enough in a brawl plus most of them will have PPCS which are NOT good to have when Mr. Arctic Cheater CSPL spams you.

Majority of people will ignore the Missile hardpoints except for the Hero mech which typically runs 2LL 2 Srm4.

Anywho...

taking a vindie is a fun, flavorful experience even if it's far from Meta. I wouldn't be doing Comp drops with it but in the Pug queue it's fun to play around with, like the majority of IS mechs

[Tahribator]

As an owner of 4 Vindicators (3 standard + the hero), I'll say it outright: they are the worst 'Mechs in this game. Worst. Even an Urbanmech which is considered a joke 'Mech in the BT universe has much more potential in MWO.

Why? I didn't come to this conclusion for a lack of trying. I have about 21 hours clocked in with a positive K/D in all of them. Let me list you why:

• It's oversized. For a 45 tonner, it's very tall and chubby. It has a ridiculous surface area and your limbs will start falling off at the slighted breeze. Fortunately their hitboxes are good and they can tank well, but due to its size it takes more damage than it should. Compare to the Blackjack which has the same tonnage while being much much smaller in terms of frontal/side profile.
  
• It lacks the hardpoints to be effective. Smaller Mediums as a general rule need a lot of energy hardpoints to stay competitive in the damage department. The VND comes with 6 hardpoints at most. One of them is wasted in the head, and is practically useless. The 1R has the most amount of arm energy hardpoints at four, but even that can be hardly used effectively. The lack of hardpoints force you to take heavier lasers/PPCs and that quickly becomes a problem in a 45 tonner because you can't afford many, Even if you can cram them in, you can't cool them properly. Not even talking about trainwreck variants such as the 1X.
  
• Anemic engine cap. The 1AA is the most popular VND out there by a mile, because it has a bigger engine cap (295). The other VNDs are capped at 235 which is a very small engine. When you mount it, it feels like a truck. It barely turns, it barely accelerates, it's barely mobile for a 45 tonner. This is supposed to be a pocket-brawler but it feels like a freaking 75 ton Orion. Also, no mobility quirks to compensate WHILE every single other medium gets them (torso twist rate bonus).
  
• Bad quirks. Absolutely horrible with the exception of the 1AA which makes it a somewhat effective poptart, but poptarting with 2xPPCs only is very tedius and isn't rewarding. PGI completely botched their only chance to make this 'Mech useful with quirks.

So there you have it. It's bad all around and having fun/being effective in this thing is only reserved for those special matches you get once in a moon, depending on your tier. PGI apparently doesn't give a **** despite repeated requests, the playerbase has long abandoned the chassis and even I as a long-time VND user haven't touched mine for months . . . it's best forgotten at this point. Perhaps the rebalance might improve it a bit, but what I saw in the PTS wasn't exactly encouraging.

[ShinVector]

Why not compare it with the Blackjack which the same weight class ?

Like what has already been mentioned above..
Blackjacks have at least 2 useful chassic... (Actually one of them is OP.)

Vindies are in a sad place... Probably doesn't help that SRMs have various problems that make them weak and PPCs have a problem with being too strong (to prevent PPC meta overload.)

[WrathOfDeadguy]

- 1AA and 1R want to be laserboats- they have the tonnage to mount dual LL or LPL with ML or MPL backup, but... they're specced as snipers. Don't get me wrong, the VND got some pretty bitchin' quirks for that, and makes a cute little dual-PPC poptart (it's how my 1AA is set up), but I feel like it could be a passably decent fast striker / light hunter if only it had more generic energy quirks instead of PPC quirks.

-SIB is a strange one. A fun one, but a strange one. The only one that's specced for anything but PPCs, which makes it an almost viable brawler. I'm running mine like this, which is probably not optimal but I favor the extra 4 points of damage over the anemic 7.5% buff to Large Laser range. Plus, the burn time quirk makes LPL damn near as quick as SPL, and that's awesome.

- The 1X is the weakest variant because it doesn't have the tonnage to fill all of its hardpoints with weapons that are actually effective. You could put an AC10 on it, which is probably the best use of the ballistic arm, but the backup weapons are going to be pretty weak. This 'Mech is what we used to call an "Unboat"- the most powerful loadouts almost require you to have a mixture of lasers, ballistics, and missiles. You can't break 30 damage without doing so.

Great, now I've talked myself into trying to like the 1X again. Sigh... I know how this is gonna go already.


Bottom line, don't drive a Vindicator if you want to be an unstoppable murder machine. Drive it if you want to be the underdog. It is presently a very weak chassis, probably on a level with the Trebuchet as the weakest IS medium... which is sad, because if certain others weren't overquirked, or if the Vindicators got a little boost to mobility, or more generic weapon quirks instead of mostly PPC quirks, they might be in a far better place right now. Just know what you're getting into if you want to try them out- they're definitely challenge mode 'Mechs right now.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 30 September 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[MechWarrior319348]

Everyone who is posting here is impatient! Please do not be discouraged by people who are well versed in "metas," they will advise you towards the current trends. I have played all the vindicators, and I wont give you ******** because i want the vindicator to sound better than it is; but I wont let you believe that it is a lost cause. I spent quite a bit of time leveling up to mastery of the mech. I have tried mixes of lrm builds, laser builds, the tweak-backed ppc builds, and some in between.

I narrowed it down to the vindi-AA. High speed and very high jumps. That kind of maneuverability with the small side torsos make it a textbook XL engine candidate. It is the last true poptart if you put PPCs on it, 70 meter jump range in just a few seconds with a small target silhouette and precision weaponry will make the enemy angry. However, you wont be able to fit more than 2 ppc unless you sacrifice speed, which is a death sentence in this lightly armored mech. You dont need dual ams, because you are fast; and with radar dep, you will forget what an lrm is. The build that i find most successful is the max engine, max jump jet, Vindi-AA, with 3 er large laser. Play it like you would a cicada with er large lasers. Stay away from the fight (do this no matter which vindi you chose) and go fire support, pop tart and harass the enemy into frustration. I get about 300-500 average dmg with it, 400-600 when im on fire, and 600-900 on the best of days. Its funny when people try to chase you, you can turn around, and swing your arms back so that you are firing 180 degrees opposite of the direction you are running. It took me a while to really learn to play the vindi though, it takes patience, and you MUST master the skill trees. In the end, people will respect you for taking it out onto a battlefield that has grown increasingly dangerous with clan perks and IS tweak madness. Dont get caught in prolonged firefights, and dont get tempted into chasing lights. This mech is a fire support mech, shooting from medium to long range.

I also want to note, that the Vindi AA is my main mech, I love it, it is like playing a light in tribes, jumpin around throwing discs around the battlefield. I really, really enjoy it. If you see me in a match, chances are that im in my Vindi AA. People discard it because they are so used to the trends that are refereed to as "metas." As a result, they underestimate it, which gives you an advantage. I will warn you once again though, you must put time into learning to play it, you will be frustrated at first.

I am almost tier 1, and i pilot almost nothing but my Vindi AA. Pain in the ass to break that tier 1 barrier, but i will do it, with this vindi.

Also also!!! I more thing, if you run straight at a light that is attacking you, they will run away. It is a base instinct built into every light pilot's head. You see a medium charging at you, while you are in a light; then you assume they are a light hunter. Light mechs are the Vindi's only weakness, because they are they only ones who can keep up with you. In a Vindi, you are following the rules of "fire and maneuver" as if it is your religion, DO NOT brawl. Fire some shots, suppress the enemy if they are onto you, then disapear to another eagle's perch to begin another reign of long range terror!

Edited by Gigliowanananacom, 30 September 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[Inflatable Fish]

like I said in another thread, it's a slowish, grossly oversized, tonnage- and hardpoint- limited chassis with terrible quirks. its only advantage is durability thanks to really nice hitboxes.

the apologetes will tell you it's an "underestimated" mech with "hidden potential" and bash its opponents on the basis of "metawhoring". I, myself, love the VND to bits but I can objectively attest that it's a bad, bad mech.

Edited by Inflatable Fish, 06 October 2015 - 05:33 AM.

[Torezu]

Inflatable Fish, on 06 October 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

like I said in another thread, it's a slowish, grossly oversized, tonnage- and hardpoint- limited chassis with terrible quirks. its only advantage is durability thanks to really nice hitboxes.

It's tonnage-limited in the same way every 50-ton IS mech is tonnage-limited, so that argument doesn't really apply. That said, the engine cap is so low (except on the 1AA) that it's too slow to compete with virtually every other medium, though it is pretty XL friendly. Its biggest issue is that it's hardpoint-limited, which you mentioned. If you treat it like a big Panther with a pair of PPCs, it's actually not bad. Just make sure you're positioning yourself carefully, because relocating is hard with the slow speed. It'd be something like this for the 1AA or this for the 1R. The 1X is objectively terrible because of the single E hardpoint in the RA, but you could go with an AC or gauss on the LA. Like this, say.

[stalima]

its problem is that it has absoloutley abominable manouverability for its base engine... unless your using the AA variant then your simply not going to be able to turn or accelerate as fast as you really need to be on that type of mech at that weight.

[Private Backside]

Just witnessed some dude Moebius something scored a few clan kills in cw and did 1700+ dmg in a first mech that was Vindicator.

[Brizna]

For reasons beyond my control I needed a tanky 45Toner for CW last week, I used 5MPL + 1 ASRM6 VND 1X with a std 235 engine and I was surprised at how little it underperformed. It wasn't good certainly, but it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

[Inflatable Fish]

Torezu, on 06 October 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

It's tonnage-limited in the same way every 50-ton IS mech is tonnage-limited, so that argument doesn't really apply. That said, the engine cap is so low (except on the 1AA) that it's too slow to compete with virtually every other medium, though it is pretty XL friendly. Its biggest issue is that it's hardpoint-limited, which you mentioned. If you treat it like a big Panther with a pair of PPCs, it's actually not bad. Just make sure you're positioning yourself carefully, because relocating is hard with the slow speed. It'd be something like this for the 1AA or this for the 1R. The 1X is objectively terrible because of the single E hardpoint in the RA, but you could go with an AC or gauss on the LA. Like this, say.

your point being?

[Torezu]

Inflatable Fish, on 08 October 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

your point being?

Point being, use big weapons, and you are "not enough of a threat" to prioritize if there are bigger targets around. It's not hard to get 3-400 damage games in a Vindi with a couple of big guns if you stay out of the way. It'll never be the best performer in the game, but then again, that title can really only be claimed by a very small number of mechs anyway. Writing it off as objectively terrible when it doesn't work for you just means the pilot that's really good in it hasn't found it yet.

[patataman]

While the Vindi has flaws (big size, low arm hardpoints), it's too a decent ppc poptarter. Small tip, PPC quirks also aply for ERPPC.

I run the 1R regularly, with 2 ERPPC, 3 SL and XL engine. It's hot as hell, but as a jumpsniper, it's not supossed to stay in the first line. (The build used to be 2 PPC and 3 ML, until i was pointed that PPC quirks applied to ERPPC too, then i traded the ML's and some armor for 2 heat sinks and range)

For the AA i went full support with tag and 2 ams, plus an ERPCC and 2 ML, top XL engine. While short on firepower, 117 kph allow you to reposition very fast and keep up with many lights.

The 1X i never knew what to do... i tried 3 MG, 1 SRM6, 1 ML, 1 ERLL... bad brawler. Also 1 UAC5, 1 ML, 1ERLL... bad sniper. Also AC10 and 2 ML... another bad brawler. After that i had the mech mastered and sold the poor thing