58 replies to this topic

[Past]

Widely regarded as the biggest liability to bring to the team the Locust has been in need of some help for quite some time yet is never mentioned by the devs. If the matchmaker matched it with another 20 tonner on the enemy side (well another locust as its the only 20 tonner) I could accept it in its current state but it simply has nothing on the potential of any other light.
It really can do quite well its not impossible. I play mine a lot as i also play the other light mechs a lot it really doesn't compare though if i had a merely good match in a locust i have no doubt that i would have completely wrecked face had i brought along my Jenner.

What I'm getting at is while i like to play my Locust i just don't like to launch in my Locust knowing that 11 other people are thinking oh great he brought a crappy Locust. What i think it needs as a bare minimum is

-Engine capped at 195. the 195XL is the same weight as the current XL190 so straight up buff there. Speeds what keeps you alive in this thing and surprisingly given its current lightest weight status isn't even the fastest mech out there when that really should be its hallmark.

-20 leg armor this needs no explanation.

-Remove collision damage for 20 ton mechs (Flea will need this also when its finally released). Its not uncommon to have damaged legs in the first 10 seconds from friendly collisions at the start of match. However this is more for a map like river city or frozen city. you can quickly shred your legs simply from weaving between building where enemy and ally alike are in narrow gaps that you need to get though at full speed constantly clipping them.

Thats all i would ask for it would still leave it as an under performer really but it would give it a helping hand without overdoing it. Anyone else have any changes they think that would help it be more of an asset than it currently is?

[Carrie Harder]

Something I would like to see as a buff for all mechs with low engine caps is a change to the engine heatsinks rule. Right now, engines under 250 need to mount some sinks on the outside, which have reduced efficiency and also eat up critslots. If all 10 base sinks you needed were built into the engine, then mechs with low engine caps (like the Lolcust) would get a lot of freed up space for upgrades (like FF) and a modest boost in heat efficiency. It would also help to reduce the "arm's race" to bigger and bigger engines in the light class (but not remove it entirely, because speed is life after all...).

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Having leg armor and internals for 20 tonners "normalized" with other lights would also help. This is how the armor and internals for lights look right now:

35 tons: 32 armor/16 internals
30 tons: 28 armor/14 internals
25 tons: 24 armor/12 internals
20 tons: 16 armor/8 internals

Notice how there's a pattern from 35 -> 30 -> 25 tons, but then suddenly there's a big jump when you go down to 20 tons. The 20 tonner *should,* by the pattern, get 20 armor and 10 internals, but it gets pooped on. It loses 4 armor and 2 internals per leg, for no real reason. I have absolutely no idea why FASA did this, but they did it, and it's kinda pointless in the grand scheme of things. The mech would still be fragile, but it wouldn't be quite so skewed.

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Lastly, the game in general is just too focused on smashing robots to the exclusion of other abilities, which is why the Lolcust and other poorly armed and armored fast robots are unfavored. The game emphasizes firepower and armor first and foremost, and once you get to "moderate" speed you don't really need much more than that (at least for non-lights). Of course, this issue is very difficult to tackle and would require a lot of reforms such as a new XP tree, another module system overhaul, map overhauls, reward system overhaul, etc...

Edited by Carrie Harder, 01 September 2014 - 09:45 PM.

[Alexandrix]

MWO doesn't really have a setting for the locust to work that well in.
The locust is really just a scout mech meant to provide information in a real battle setting.
MWO isn't a real battle setting.It's solaris arena.
Trying to make mechs like the locust perform as well as the larger lights is like shoving a square peg into a round hole.
Can't really ask much out of a 20 ton mech in this setting.
If MWO were planetside with battletech skins,the locust might have a place.

Edited by Alexandrix, 01 September 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[FDJustin]

In the dev tracker, someone asked Russ about the locust. He said they wanted to put out more tweaks. So I hold out hope it'll get some kind of love at least.

[Past]

Also with the engine heat sinks on mechs which cant mount a 250 engine or greater you lose out on the full true 10 double heat sinks. So in the case of the Locust you get:
7 inbuilt engine double heat sinks at 2x cooling bonus.
3 additional heat sinks are then required to launch and they only come at 1.4x cooling bonus.
Having the first 10 heat sinks on mechs be at the 2x cooling bonus regardless of location would also be a nice change to stop penalizing using sub 250 rated engines.

thanks for that weight to leg armor explanation i never knew that it is strange it isn't normalized like you said more reason for wanting it upped to 20 leg armor.

[MonkeyCheese]

I still love all my locusts and think they do perfectly fine with some practice.

But I say they will really shine on the new "factory" map once people start to get a basic understanding of they layout of that map, it is an urban hit and fade dream. Especially the really dark corners where I am sure you can power down and go unnoticed, but saying that a flea with masc in this map would do even better.

I will say tho that giving it a quirk to "avoid" needed the 10 minimum heat sinks would be the best thing to do and wouldnt be game breaking at all as it is a 20 ton mech after all.

[Asmudius Heng]

Nearly all low ends of each class are problematic.

Locust
Cicada/BlackJack (without ECM)
Dragon
Awesome

A few break this such as the Victor before the nerf, but overall people will tonne up in each weight class UNLESS a lighter mech fills a role that top end one cannot do, or it has some significant build or performance advantage such as amazing hitboxes etc.

Even if we got better game modes that require more scouting and taking out non mech targets ... the locust is still terrible compared to say - anything with ECM.

Without a system of logistics (Battlevalue or some other method) this mech is doomed ... in the original game people took locusts because they were CHEAP to field ... right now we field whatever we want the clot to buy is never an issue since eventually we can get any mech we want.

Logistical concerns so that underpowered mechs can be more easily fielded that high tech OP monsters is needed for CW .... but I WILL NEVER HAPPEN ... because PGI.

[Reitrix]

Past, on 01 September 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

where enemy and ally alike are in narrow gaps that you need to get though at full speed constantly clipping them.

Aaaaand lemme stop you right here. Even if you stopped the Locust from taking Leg Damage now, in the long term when they bring Falling and general Collisions back, people would be so used to simply clipping through everything for free that the rage from the collision induced deaths would dwarf that of the LRM QQ during the height of the LRM Apocalypse.

Also, the very fact that you can "clip through" Friendlies and Hostiles alike is broken as hell.
I play Lights. I love Lights.
I hate that they're basically high speed brawlers with phasing technology allowing me to literally run into my target at max speed and simply appear behind him.
'Mechs need to be treated by the game as solid objects you cannot, under any circumstance pass through. I dont even care if they never bring Falling back, just so long as Lights can no longer warp through a narrow ally that *should* have been a death sentence.

[Mothykins]

Then I must be some sort of god. Three kills, two assists, one of those kills being a one vs. one with a Summoner, with a Locust 1V-P. Numerous spotting bonuses as well.

Is It underpowered? Yes. But good piloting can make up for that. Simply moving behind the enemy and spotting for a while is fantastic, and then stomping a few hits into someone who gets too far away from their friends before darting away goes very far. You need to play less like a darting brawler and more like a stealthy camera with a large knife. And if you're piloting a Machine gun Locust, for gods sake, take a Small Pulse Laser over a Medium Laser, the faster duration and lack of heat management issues more than makes up for the range you can close in less than a second.

That said, It really needs to go up one more engine tier. 200 rating gives you one more internal heat sink for one more ton on an XL; a perfect balance, opening up a few more slots for weapon load-out without upsetting the rest of the 'mech too terribly much. Another thing would be slightly less fall damage, or upped internal points; they splatter far too easily, even for a 20 ton. I was taken out by a lucky PPC hit, followed by a SRM burst through the CT one match, from fresh. Not cool.

[Past]

Clipping is not the term i would use for magically running through something think more a car sideswiping another. None of my mechs magically go through others so i don't know what you are experiencing there it doesn't really sound Locust related though. I will either come to a stop or get weird rubber banding for about 3 seconds while i get shot to **** if i clean run into another mech. i was pretty specific saying only for 20 ton mechs to remove the collision damage though i didn't say remove it from the game.

[Training Instructor]

The plight of the Locust makes me laugh at people calling for the release of the clan Firemoth.

As stated by others, 20 ton mechs just don't seem to have much place in this game. They're too easy to cripple, and the odds of that happening go up considerably when you're facing better players.

[Y E O N N E]

You don't ever want an XL 250 in a Locust; with max armor save for 13 points off the head, EndoSteel, and Ferro Fibrous, an XL 250 would leave you with a mere three tons to work with.

Three tons.

That's damn near bloody useless. I mean, I could make it work, but what's the point? I already don't have trouble making it work given current limitations. I really don't understand those of you who say the Locust needs more crit slots, because crit slots are one thing the Locust has no shortage of at all. You never run out of space with any build, only weight capacity. The weight capacity you give up to get those built-in 10 DHS is stupid because for the same weight you could add three more on top of those required three with the XL 190 and still carry the same payload of weapons with better cooling efficiency. Do the friggin' math, people: 0.42 extra cooling is greater than 0.18. After mastery, your total cooling with the XL 190 and 13 DHS is 2.58 while it's only 2.3 with the XL 250 and the built-in 10 DHS.

The only reason to want an XL 250 on the Locust is to run wicked fast. That's it. There's no other practical application for it on this 'Mech. And guess what? That's waaaaay too fast for a Locust to be running in this game at this time.

All the Locust needs are quirks that buff the armor on the legs and improve the turn rate and radius. I also like that XL 195 idea, that would make it the fastest 'Mech in the game...which it should be given its limitations.

As a Locust pilot, I accept that the machine will never be as deadly as a Firestarter when both are piloted with the same skill. Shoot, I can haul 400+ damage in my Locust with regularity, but I can pull twice that in an Ember or FS9-H while hardly breaking a sweat. That's just the nature of the beast. The Locust is lots of work and that's why I like to play it.

Cavale, on 01 September 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

Then I must be some sort of god. Three kills, two assists, one of those kills being a one vs. one with a Summoner, with a Locust 1V-P. Numerous spotting bonuses as well.

Is It underpowered? Yes. But good piloting can make up for that. Simply moving behind the enemy and spotting for a while is fantastic, and then stomping a few hits into someone who gets too far away from their friends before darting away goes very far. You need to play less like a darting brawler and more like a stealthy camera with a large knife. And if you're piloting a Machine gun Locust, for gods sake, take a Small Pulse Laser over a Medium Laser, the faster duration and lack of heat management issues more than makes up for the range you can close in less than a second.

That said, It really needs to go up one more engine tier. 200 rating gives you one more internal heat sink for one more ton on an XL; a perfect balance, opening up a few more slots for weapon load-out without upsetting the rest of the 'mech too terribly much. Another thing would be slightly less fall damage, or upped internal points; they splatter far too easily, even for a 20 ton. I was taken out by a lucky PPC hit, followed by a SRM burst through the CT one match, from fresh. Not cool.

I've been called evil in mine.

Small pulse laser on the LCT-1V? I bring a medium pulse laser on mine. With double heat-sinks, you will never over heat. With single heat-sinks, it takes a minute and 20 seconds of firing to over heat. Heat...is a total non-issue on the LCT-1V.

XL 200 is an interesting idea, but your math is off. You lose a half ton of carrying capacity after accounting for the required heat-sinks. Things only get worse from there as you move up the engine sizes.

[Voidcrafter]

Glancing strikes.
When you're running above(random numbers) 130kph all damage caused to your legs/side torsos is reduced with 30% - can go with an option to gradually increase with the speed above that, or to reach that limit by the same logic.
E.g. speed artificially increases your survilability - at least to me it sounds very light-ish

[Mazikar]

There is no place for this mech in the meta that currently exists. If I wanted to win a race or kill ground troops in a limited time then there would be a need..... seriously I love to see these mechs in the enemy ranks, one AC20 shot to the leg and its done.

[Monkey Lover]

It needs a "one mech" ecm. Then it could be great little mech. Its so small you shouldn't be able to target it from 700-1200m away anyway.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 September 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[meteorol]

Sadly, even with all kind of quirks the locust will just stay a burden for the team. Yeah someone will probably post a screenshot of a match in which all the stars were in the right position and, more importantly, he was ignored by the enemy team the whole match resulting in 800 dmg and 5 kills.

But fact is: light mechs are the worst class at the moment (because the game boils down to TDM and there is no real task for light mechs) and the locust is the worst mech in the worst class, making it the worst mech in the game.

Like 75% of the locusts i see (i'm playing alot of conquest atm, never saw them in skirmish to begin with) end the match with below 20 damage because they are oneshotted by the first guy with decent aim and a pinpoint FLD alpha of 30 they encounter. There is no mech that relies more on the enemy being bad to survive than the locust.

Objectively speaking, there is not a single reason for the locust to be in the game. Which is sad. But this problem can't be fixed by giving quirks to the locust, because it will still be oneshotted (unless you give it like +10 internals or something). This problem COULD be solved by giving light mechs an actual purpose in this game. Sadly i doubt this will happen.

[Soulscour]

Lotharian, on 02 September 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

There is no place for this mech in the meta that currently exists. If I wanted to win a race or kill ground troops in a limited time then there would be a need..... seriously I love to see these mechs in the enemy ranks, one AC20 shot to the leg and its done.

That is simply not true. I've mastered the locust this week and one AC20 shot and the leg is not done. Its just like all the other lights with ac20 shots. Two and its done. The problem with locusts is the limited armor everywhere else, especially center and side torso armor. It is not incapable of scoring 300 damage on average however if played smart. It was sad to me losing games and out damaging all but 1 or 2 on the team. They are great lights to train in. After a week of driving locusts, I dropped a few matches in a Raven-4X (certainly not a top light) and was leading team damage, and winning by large margins.

[Training Instructor]

Playing the Locust smart is one thing.
Unfortunately, as another poster said, the dumber your opponents are, the smarter you look.

[oldradagast]

While they should give the Locust *something* to make it at least not totally useless, the sad reality is that it will never have a role in this game unless the maps expand vastly and the game changes a low. Other lights can reach the same - or nearly the same - speed, and have enough tonnage to at least do something and pose a threat. The Locust something has nothing going for it... I'm not even sure if it is the fastest light, but even if it was, so what? It has no jump jets or ECM, and not enough tonnage to pose a real threat.

[Wolfways]

Non-customizable engines would greatly improve variety of roles, and the game in general imo.