46 replies to this topic

[Mazikar]

Well now interestingly enough it seems that only a few tried and true builds are worth a poop. I am of course talking about load-outs and mechs, I have about 6 mechs that almost always win the game, couple of them have ECM and a couple boat well and by boat I mean any.... LRM, Energy, AC / LBX . The well rounded are well versed in losing 50/50.

This is attributed to the absolute lack of any reason to be well rounded. There is no need to have anything but punch, be it distance or melee. You will never encounter ground troops just other mechs or turrets (mech wanna-Bs), Unless you boat and learn to play that edge you will pretty much die. Go ahead an be a jack of all trades and one single Jenner with Narc will ruin your day/night.

I am not bitter, just bored fighting with and against the same builds over... and over. Sad to say it but when I see an interesting build on my team it just means we have a better chance of losing.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Specialization tends to win out over generalization in most PvP MMO's. You take a specialized build and then you try to maneuver in such a way as to minimize your inherent weaknesses and maximize your intended strengths.

The synergy is intended to come from the TEAM aspect of the game, not 12 generalized builds. Brawlers are protecting the snipers, supported by IDF boats etc etc. People fixate on the lack of frankenmechs as a design flaw, when it's not really how the game works. Don't confuse what I'm saying with an agreement that the current "meta" is fun necessarily, but those are really two completely different issues.

Example...the modern tank is not designed to be a multi-trick pony. For all of it's firepower and ability to target while on the move at range, it still suffers disadvantages on the modern battlefield, specifically the ability to discriminate targets in the confines of urban environment and with civilians on the battlefield. Most Army's leave the platform a fairly specialized machine, and augment its team with combined arms aspects...dismounted infantry, reconaissance helicopters etc. None can do it all, but properly integrated they can cover all of the bases.

MWO is a smaller scale version of the combined arms principal. Sadly, the meta of PPC/Gss/AC allows for the current breed of one trick pony to do all of these things and cover each other...whereas in the public queue if you get a different mix, you can be on the failing end due to lack of synergy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lukoi, on 02 September 2014 - 03:55 AM, said:

Specialization tends to win out over generalization in most PvP MMO's. You take a specialized build and then you try to maneuver in such a way as to minimize your inherent weaknesses and maximize your intended strengths.

The synergy is intended to come from the TEAM aspect of the game, not 12 generalized builds. Brawlers are protecting the snipers, supported by IDF boats etc etc. People fixate on the lack of frankenmechs as a design flaw, when it's not really how the game works. Don't confuse what I'm saying with an agreement that the current "meta" is fun necessarily, but those are really two completely different issues.

Example...the modern tank is not designed to be a multi-trick pony. For all of it's firepower and ability to target while on the move at range, it still suffers disadvantages on the modern battlefield, specifically the ability to discriminate targets in the confines of urban environment and with civilians on the battlefield. Most Army's leave the platform a fairly specialized machine, and augment its team with combined arms aspects...dismounted infantry, reconaissance helicopters etc. None can do it all, but properly integrated they can cover all of the bases.

MWO is a smaller scale version of the combined arms principal. Sadly, the meta of PPC/Gss/AC allows for the current breed of one trick pony to do all of these things and cover each other...whereas in the public queue if you get a different mix, you can be on the failing end due to lack of synergy.

Wait! Did you just NOT blame Match Maker, Elo, or The phase of the moon for losing? What kind of nonsense is that Lukoi?

[Viges]

Lotharian, on 02 September 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

Sad to say it but when I see an interesting build on my team it just means we have a better chance of losing.

Wow how can you see team's builds?

Anyway - there is no real reason to win in this game, so you can drive what you want for fun.

[JackPoint]

Well to be it seems there are two builds only viable in mwo currently, LRM boats, or brawler builds with couple of ballistics large lasers, mediums. Gone are the days of variation. 90% of matches I've joined have been tbw lrm boats, and a token amount of ecm spotters.

[Wolfways]

Real Mechwarriors pilot stock mechs

[Triordinant]

Viges, on 02 September 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Wow how can you see team's builds?

That's supposed to be discussed with your team in the dropship meeting room -if we ever get one.

Edited by Triordinant, 02 September 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Triordinant, on 02 September 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

That's supposed to be discussed with your team in the dropship meeting room - (if) we ever get one.

The irony of this post is amazing.... Sorry, had to point this out again.. LOL!

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 02 September 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[mogs01gt]

I dont get what the problem is. You should always be building and playing to your mechs strengths and not it's weaknesses. If your mech boats energy weapons well, there is no reason not to run energy weapons.

[FlipOver]

Jackpoint, on 02 September 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Well to be it seems there are two builds only viable in mwo currently, LRM boats, or brawler builds with couple of ballistics large lasers, mediums. Gone are the days of variation. 90% of matches I've joined have been tbw lrm boats, and a token amount of ecm spotters.

Just so we are in agreement, by brawlers you mean any mech with no weapon with a range over 300meters?
If so, I'd say there are not that many out there. Actually the few brave ones to go in a brawler build often only get to see real action after half the team is dead.

What we have in spades atm are skirmishers, snipers and LR boats.

And ON TOPIC:
I wish this game would accept a stock only mode. Granted one could improve the stock mech regarding its skill trees (speed tweak and such), and that would be it. No weapon or upgrade possible.
Until then, only the most viable builds will quench the thirst or the PP-Long distance-FLD crowd.
For the few real brawlers out there I have a message: Keep being brave, this meta isn't going to last forever.

[Sephlock]

Wolfways, on 02 September 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Real Mechwarriors pilot stock mechs Nova Primes

[keith]

u can still have a balanced build. it is just spread over a TEAM. 1 person is speced long range and other short. once u take the avg numbers of weps on a team it = balanced builds on all mechs

[Davegt27]

I am running out of stuff to try on the Jager
what six mechs do you have?

[Wolfways]

Davegt27, on 02 September 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

I am running out of stuff to try on the Jager
what six mechs do you have?

Have you tried a stock weapon loadout on a JM6-S with an XL255, Endo, and around 9tons of ammo? It's by far the most powerful IS mech I've found.
Haven't played it much since clans came out (because I've been waiting for clans for near 3 years) but the few matches i did use it i slaughtered two TBR's easily (one was a headshot though).

Sephlock, on 02 September 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Nearly mastered my stock Nova's

[Davegt27]

Quote

Have you tried a stock weapon loadout on a JM6-S with an XL255, Endo, and around 9tons of ammo? It's by far the most powerful IS mech I've found.
Haven't played it much since clans came out (because I've been waiting for clans for near 3 years) but the few matches i did use it i slaughtered two TBR's easily (one was a headshot though).

I have a xl245 with 10 tons of ammo in my S it does not do much unless I find someone that wants to stand there and let my pump rounds into them for 30 sec

[Wolfways]

Davegt27, on 02 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have a xl245 with 10 tons of ammo in my S it does not do much unless I find someone that wants to stand there and let my pump rounds into them for 30 sec

30 seconds?
You get into a brawl and you can rip the ct out of any mech (lights not included) in around 10-12 seconds. If they torso twist just stop firing and cool down a bit, and once they turn back to you resume firing. My JM6-S overheats in around 15 seconds of continuous fire.
You do alpha the AC's right? I only use the ML's on the rare occasion i run out of ammo.
I also never use under a 250 engine to get the 2.0DHS benefit.

Edited by Wolfways, 02 September 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[nehebkau]

Nothing I hate more than seeing LRM boats on my team...usually means I have a person who can't aim and is going to stay, useless, at the back hoping other people will die to give him/her a target.

[Joseph Mallan]

nehebkau, on 02 September 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

Nothing I hate more than seeing LRM boats on my team...usually means I have a person who can't aim and is going to stay, useless, at the back hoping other people will die to give him/her a target.

So you haven't seen good Fire Support I see.

[nehebkau]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 September 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

So you haven't seen good Fire Support I see.

Nope, solo play only.

[Heffay]

Lotharian, on 02 September 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

Well now interestingly enough it seems that only a few tried and true builds are worth a poop. I am of course talking about load-outs and mechs, I have about 6 mechs that almost always win the game, couple of them have ECM and a couple boat well and by boat I mean any.... LRM, Energy, AC / LBX . The well rounded are well versed in losing 50/50.

This is attributed to the absolute lack of any reason to be well rounded. There is no need to have anything but punch, be it distance or melee. You will never encounter ground troops just other mechs or turrets (mech wanna-Bs), Unless you boat and learn to play that edge you will pretty much die. Go ahead an be a jack of all trades and one single Jenner with Narc will ruin your day/night.

I am not bitter, just bored fighting with and against the same builds over... and over. Sad to say it but when I see an interesting build on my team it just means we have a better chance of losing.

It's posts like this that make me wish that stats were publicly available.