43 replies to this topic

[Jaroth Corbett]

First off, seeing as I am in a unit, I must issue a disclaimer:

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS THREAD ARE IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, TO BE CONSIDERED THE OFFICIAL VIEW OF CLAN GHOST BEAR INTERNATIONAL. THIS IS MY VIEW ON WELL............EVERYTHING.

So PGI has announced that they cut ties with IGP. In light of that, I want to talk about what has happened, what is happening & what I hope WILL happen.

I am a Clansman. I have been a Clansman ever since I was a child, watching the Battletech Animated Series & seing Andrew Steiner have the audacity to dare to refuse Nicolai Malthus' batchall. MW3 was my first BT/MW game & my first online game back when connecting to the internet meant you could not receive phone calls because you were using a 56k dial up modem. It was a time of Gamespy & MSN Gaming Zone.............a.k.a the good old days.

I LOVE MW3. Yes you read that right, there is no "D" at the end to indicate past tense. I still love it. From the campaign intro thrusting you into the BT universe:



to the simple to use but still detailed mechlab:



it is a great game. The only problem is in 2014 the graphics look WAY old because the game was done in 1999. Skipping past the arcade looking MW4 we had MWLL & now MWO. I was looking forward to another boxed game with a single player campaign to get acquainted & immerse myself in a compelling story line with multiplayer added to enjoy the game with my friends. Instead we got this.................

So we started in Closed beta with only IS mechs, a minus in my book seeing as MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:V, MW4:BK & MW4:M all had Clan mechs from the beginning. Yes I got it was "Beta" & things needed to be worked on..........fine.

Skip to now & the way PGI has bungled this is amazing.
****************************************************************************************************************************

Clan equipment is SUPPOSED to be better. WAY better. To quote TROs & all the text from novels would only serve to make this a super long post. I will sum it up with one line that I think encompasses everything:

Haakon Magnusson shook his head. "The Clans make our weapons look like toys compared to what they bring to battle."

Blood of Kerensky Trilogy - Book 2 - Blood Legacy

Nerfing the Clans is IDIOTIC. You are enraging & ostracizing a sizeable chunk of your fan base by constantly surrendering to whining noobs & IS stalwarts.

What is their excuse? It would break the game. Nobody would play IS mechs anymore. You know what I say to that?



You know WHY I say that?

Because since 1999 people have been playing puretech (i.e. IS forces use only IS equipment & mechs & Clan forces only use Clan equipment & mechs)matches both casually as well as in Leagues.Sure there have been mixtech games but there have been a LOT of puretech games spanning MW3->MW3:PM->MW4:V->MW4:BK->MW4:V.

You say, "Having a faction in the game that is technologically superior to another faction is not economically viable & therefore doomed to failure."

I give you StarCraft.

Quote

StarCraft was released internationally on March 31, 1998 and became the best-selling PC game for that year, selling over 1.5 million copies worldwide.In the next decade, StarCraft sold over 9.5 million copies across the globe, with 4.5 million of these being sold in South Korea.Since the initial release of StarCraft, Blizzard Entertainment reported that its Battle.net online multiplayer service grew by 800 percent.StarCraft remains one of the most popular online games in the world.

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty has been met with critical acclaim since its release. It received an aggregated score of 92.39% at GameRankings and 93/100 at Metacritic. The game was particularly praised for retaining the popular RTS gameplay from StarCraft, while introducing new features and improved storytelling. GamesRadar felt that "in many ways, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty feels like StarCraft 2.0 – and that’s a good thing", stating that it "delivers on all fronts". NZGamer.com said the game was "the best RTS game released in years and one of the best games on PC".

****************************************************************************************************************************

I want to focus on two of the three factions featured in StarCraft:

Protoss



The Protoss are a race in the StarCraft series. They are composed of two societies, the conservative Khalai Protoss and the exiled dark templar. The Protoss are depicted as a physically strong species with access to advanced psionic abilities. The Protoss are considered the most technologically advanced race of the series

Clearly the Protoss are the Clans:

divided into two societies: Crusader & Warden
physically strong species: genetically enhanced warriors (+ Elementals)
most technologically advanced race: omnimechs, better equipment & weapons

powerful & mysterious aliens, fanatical about ancient beliefs, spent lots of years developing advanced technology, could not stop homeworld being overrun, bravest most efficient warriors, handful of troops lays a beatdown on larger enemy forces, durable plasma shield (clan ff armor), instantly deploying troops to the battlefield (hot drop), 4 distinct cybernetic units (stalkers-light, sentries-medium, immortal-heavy, colossus-assault), high templar (elemental in regular combat), dark templar (elementals on headhunter missions), monster of a ship=weapon without equal (dropship,turtle bay, nism?)

Terrans



The Terrans are a fictional future version of humanity in the StarCraft series. The Terrans are the most splintered of the StarCraft species, consisting of multiple factions that not only fight the other races but each other as well. Considered an adaptive and mobile species...........

Now who could that be???????

splintered.... multiple factions: the successor states
adaptive & mobile species: though outclassed & outgunned by the Clans' superior tech & training, they adapt & use their mobility engaging in guerilla warfare

When you decide to play the game, you get an overview of the factions & you CHOOSE one knowing the pros & cons, the strenghts & weaknesses & you live with it.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 10 September 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[Keeshu]

Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm not seeing the problem here. Clans will still be a little more powerful after the nerfs, and Inner Sphere are still superior with their burst damage guerilla tactics.


Also the problem with the Clans + Protoss and Inner Sphere + Terrans is that the Protoss + Clans were very powerful but very few in comparison to the multiple but weak Terrans + Inner Sphere........ This works perfectly in a strategy game. However in normal games where each character needs to be controlled, you need to balance things out, otherwise the majority of players will just stick to whatever is the best strategy (of course there's always those who don't for a challenge, I'm one of those, but that's the minority). If everyone just goes to the powerful mechs, queue times will start to be terrible due to lack of people on the underdog's side.



Though I will say. I would like to see help for some of the weaker clan mechs. Not everyone is as gifted as the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Thank you for your input. There is a bug that is preventing me from breaking up what I want to say into smaller posts so I apologize for the long post. I am actually not even finished as yet. I am still adding things in. I would love to hear what you say when I am done. The ***************************** indicates where I separated points & wanted to separate posts.

[Keeshu]

Interesting bug. I hope the bug gets fixed at some point.

[Jaroth Corbett]

I think you are underrating the Terran to the weakness of a Zerg perhaps but my main point is:

If this is supposed to be 3050 then the guys that have been thumping their chests from day one of Closed Beta that they are IS should not be using Clan tech of any kind & choosing to be a IS player, you should sack up & accept that knowing however :



You have to take the good with the bad.

[John Wolf]

Hello Jaroth,

While you've got a pretty long post here, your example misses an important point. That the three factions in starcraft while different, are all balanced within their system. Each of the three factions have their own perks, and technology there doesn't make a difference. Since the zerg really have none, they have brutal numbers and swarm damage..

In the battletech Mwo system, its already been stated that it won't be a 10 v 12 so you can't give the IS the numbers advantage to counter the clan tech advantage. Everything changes when you bring a 'system' into a new environment.

We all have our own opinions and views, but its very hard to maintain a good balance of the game without making it lopsided. Look at how many chassis there are in the game, and how you rarely see many of them played.

Another situation.. look at jump sniping. When that mechanic came out to be a powerful system, how many people did you see changing their fighting style to implement it? How many builds swapped from LRMs to the Jump cannons? And then when LRMs were 'OP' the skies were darkened with the amount of missiles heading downrange.

In a competitive game, you will see the competitive players taking advantage of the weapon systems and mechanics they feel give them the best chance of winning.

Give the devs a chance to work out a good system, to make IS mechs and Clan mechs 'balanced' and stay within the lore.

TLDR? Players cannot bring more numbers against clan tech because the game remains 12 v 12. So tweaks have to be made.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Thank you for your input John but the problem is the devs have had since Closed Beta & their system has not changed. Someone whines & then it is nerfs across the board & not a nerf BB gun, it is a nerf bazooka.

[Keeshu]

I do wonder the % of people that stayed inner sphere. Overall, from what I've seen, most Inner Sphere fans are people that played the Battletech tabletop game and/or read a ton of books.
Mechwarrior 2 is what got me into Battletech so I'm probably going to stay a clanner even if most of the clans are un-interesting enough to make me say "Yeah I want this faction". Closest faction like that would be Goliath Scorpion, but even then I'm not sure.. I dislike the whole Inner Sphere in general, and I'm alright with Kurita (Kurita is pretty clan-like anyways). I'll go out of my way to read some books eventually, because right now all my info on the factions are from descriptions on Sarna.
You'll see me drop in a Jenner, Dragon, Catapult from time to time though in the far far future. But you'll see me in a Mad Dog more than anything else.


And John Wolfie said everything else I was going to say and then a little more. Which is probably a good thing because I lost track of time going between the two PGI forums.

[John Wolf]

Do you have any suggestions then for how to find the balance? Don't you agree that sometimes a nerfing can be required? You can't continue to increase damage across the board as a solution.. sometimes a weapon does too much and needs to be lowered.

Remember, constructive criticism! Just voicing a gripe only provides negative airtime.. if you think a system isn't working properly, provide some options, input, perhaps its something someone hasn't considered yet.

The system is changing all the time! Collecting data, making weapon tweaks and trying to find the best system possible for everyone to enjoy.

Keeshu,

Get the books! ALL THE BOOKS. I have them all on my shelf upstairs, the entire set.. and I have loved reading (ALMOST) all of them. The battletech game has so much history and lore to it.. I got hooked when I was in grade 7 and wandered past a novel in the school library.. 'Decision at Thunder Rift'. The cover looked awesome, I signed it out.. read it.. and never looked back. I still have that book in fact.. the librarian let me keep it.

[Uncle Totty]

John Wolf, on 10 September 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Hello Jaroth,

While you've got a pretty long post here, your example misses an important point. That the three factions in starcraft while different, are all balanced within their system. Each of the three factions have their own perks, and technology there doesn't make a difference. Since the zerg really have none, they have brutal numbers and swarm damage..

In the battletech Mwo system, its already been stated that it won't be a 10 v 12...

Well why not? They have tested it out. I have seen it work. (Many times.) Why should it not be?

[Uncle Totty]

Jaroth Corbett, on 10 September 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

First off, seeing as I am in a unit, I must issue a disclaimer:

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS THREAD ARE IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, TO BE CONSIDERED THE OFFICIAL VIEW OF CLAN GHOST BEAR INTERNATIONAL. THIS IS MY VIEW ON WELL............EVERYTHING.

So PGI has announced that they cut ties with IGP. In light of that, I want to talk about what has happened, what is happening & what I hope WILL happen.

I am a Clansman. I have been a Clansman ever since I was a child, watching the Battletech Animated Series & seing Andrew Steiner have the audacity to dare to refuse Nicolai Malthus' batchall. MW3 was my first BT/MW game & my first online game back when connecting to the internet meant you could not receive phone calls because you were using a 56k dial up modem. It was a time of Gamespy & MSN Gaming Zone.............a.k.a the good old days.

I LOVE MW3. Yes you read that right, there is no "D" at the end to indicate past tense. I still love it. From the campaign intro thrusting you into the BT universe:



to the simple to use but still detailed mechlab:



it is a great game. The only problem is in 2014 the graphics look WAY old because the game was done in 1999. Skipping past the arcade looking MW4 we had MWLL & now MWO. I was looking forward to another boxed game with a single player campaign to get acquainted & immerse myself in a compelling story line with multiplayer added to enjoy the game with my friends. Instead we got this.................

So we started in Closed beta with only IS mechs, a minus in my book seeing as MW3, MW3:PM, MW4:V, MW4:BK & MW4:M all had Clan mechs from the beginning. Yes I got it was "Beta" & things needed to be worked on..........fine.

Skip to now & the way PGI has bungled this is amazing.
****************************************************************************************************************************

Clan equipment is SUPPOSED to be better. WAY better. To quote TROs & all the text from novels would only serve to make this a super long post. I will sum it up with one line that I think encompasses everything:

Haakon Magnusson shook his head. "The Clans make our weapons look like toys compared to what they bring to battle."

Blood of Kerensky Trilogy - Book 2 - Blood Legacy

Nerfing the Clans is IDIOTIC. You are enraging & ostracizing a sizeable chunk of your fan base by constantly surrendering to whining noobs & IS stalwarts.

What is their excuse? It would break the game. Nobody would play IS mechs anymore. You know what I say to that?



You know WHY I say that?

Because since 1999 people have been playing puretech (i.e. IS forces use only IS equipment & mechs & Clan forces only use Clan equipment & mechs)matches both casually as well as in Leagues.Sure there have been mixtech games but there have been a LOT of puretech games spanning MW3->MW3:PM->MW4:V->MW4:BK->MW4:V.

You say, "Having a faction in the game that is technologically superior to another faction is not economically viable & therefore doomed to failure."

I give you StarCraft.




****************************************************************************************************************************

I want to focus on two of the three factions featured in StarCraft:

Protoss



The Protoss are a race in the StarCraft series. They are composed of two societies, the conservative Khalai Protoss and the exiled dark templar. The Protoss are depicted as a physically strong species with access to advanced psionic abilities. The Protoss are considered the most technologically advanced race of the series

Clearly the Protoss are the Clans:

divided into two societies: Crusader & Warden
physically strong species: genetically enhanced warriors (+ Elementals)
most technologically advanced race: omnimechs, better equipment & weapons

powerful & mysterious aliens, fanatical about ancient beliefs, spent lots of years developing advanced technology, could not stop homeworld being overrun, bravest most efficient warriors, handful of troops lays a beatdown on larger enemy forces, durable plasma shield (clan ff armor), instantly deploying troops to the battlefield (hot drop), 4 distinct cybernetic units (stalkers-light, sentries-medium, immortal-heavy, colossus-assault), high templar (elemental in regular combat), dark templar (elementals on headhunter missions), monster of a ship=weapon without equal (dropship,turtle bay, nism?)

Terrans



The Terrans are a fictional future version of humanity in the StarCraft series. The Terrans are the most splintered of the StarCraft species, consisting of multiple factions that not only fight the other races but each other as well. Considered an adaptive and mobile species...........

Now who could that be???????

splintered.... multiple factions: the successor states
adaptive & mobile species: though outclassed & outgunned by the Clans' superior tech & training, they adapt & use their mobility engaging in guerilla warfare

When you decide to play the game, you get an overview of the factions & you CHOOSE one knowing the pros & cons, the strenghts & weaknesses & you live with it.

Man. This make me wish MWO is an RTS now.

Edited by Nathan K, 10 September 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[John Wolf]

Nathan K, on 10 September 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Well why not? They have tested it out. I have seen it work. (Many times.) Why should it not be?

Above my pay grade Nathan! Check the announcements, though if I recall correctly they explained why it wouldn't be going 10 v 12. I'd link the post myself but heading out shortly.

[ninjitsu]

I love Mechwarrior 3 too! Still got my discs! The campaign is great, voice acting is well done, the whole experience is top notch. I played the heck out of it on the MSN gaming zone too. Ahh the days of dial up, shooting 6 mechs ahead to hit your target.

[Sky Hawk]

And when you chose to play a Lone Wolf, or a Merc, you can use ALL existing weapons and Mechs anytime... Right?

Good...

[Jaroth Corbett]

John Wolf, on 10 September 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Do you have any suggestions then for how to find the balance? Don't you agree that sometimes a nerfing can be required? You can't continue to increase damage across the board as a solution.. sometimes a weapon does too much and needs to be lowered.

Remember, constructive criticism! Just voicing a gripe only provides negative airtime.. if you think a system isn't working properly, provide some options, input, perhaps its something someone hasn't considered yet.

The system is changing all the time! Collecting data, making weapon tweaks and trying to find the best system possible for everyone to enjoy.

Keeshu,

Get the books! ALL THE BOOKS. I have them all on my shelf upstairs, the entire set.. and I have loved reading (ALMOST) all of them. The battletech game has so much history and lore to it.. I got hooked when I was in grade 7 and wandered past a novel in the school library.. 'Decision at Thunder Rift'. The cover looked awesome, I signed it out.. read it.. and never looked back. I still have that book in fact.. the librarian let me keep it.

I think all the suggestions I made in Closed beta were gameplay related not stat related. e.g. How Clan mechs should be unlocked. Targeting system for zellbrigen etc. I am looking through old posts while I am having my lunch but I do not think I did any stat related posts. Checking to see.

Sky Hawk, on 10 September 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

And when you chose to play a Lone Wolf, or a Merc, you can use ALL existing weapons and Mechs anytime... Right?

Good...

For 3050 at the beginning of the Clan invasion, no. Nobody but the Clans has access to a steady line of Clan mechs.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 10 September 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

The clan - IS balance is the last thing i wanna complain about.

having OP technology in F2P game has no point. People keep talking "Bah it should be 10v12..."
At the end people would always reach for the most powerfull toys. That has no future.

I want clan IS to be balanced. They should be, and hopefully they will be balanced. Its the balance calls of PGI that are constantly pissing me off...

For the sake of CWarfare i wanna shoot stravag mechs, if there is something OP, after relase of clan mechs for Cbills, no one with IQ higher than 10 would reach for IS tech.

Despite of how big fan i am of NW2, sorry but i disagree with your stance towards Clan IS tech balance

------------------

MW3 < MWLL < MWO for me

Edited by MechB Kotare, 10 September 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Then adjust the timeline like MW3. Simple.

[CyclonerM]

Jaroth Corbett, on 10 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Then adjust the timeline like MW3. Simple.

Well, neg. I have always wanted to see a game set during Operation Revival. Later, they can speed up the timeline, but only after a fair amount of CW action.

Besides, you quoted it yourself: the Clans will always have a tech advantage, quiaff?

[Jaroth Corbett]

CyclonerM, on 10 September 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Well, neg. I have always wanted to see a game set during Operation Revival. Later, they can speed up the timeline, but only after a fair amount of CW action.

Besides, you quoted it yourself: the Clans will always have a tech advantage, quiaff?

Supposed to. We did not have PGI nerfing the weapons on the battlefield now did we?

[CyclonerM]

Jaroth Corbett, on 10 September 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Supposed to. We did not have PGI nerfing the weapons on the battlefield now did we?

"After centuries of economical growth and new techological developements, the Khans of the mighty Clans of Kerensky felt the time to return in the Inner Sphere had come. Loaded with thousands of deadly OmniMechs, AeroSpace fighters and Elemental battle-armored soldiers, the Jumpships and Warships of the Clans jumped into the darkness of space , en route to the Inner Sphere. However, an unexpected enemy might become the Clans' worst nightmare..

It is known by everyone, and its name is used to frighten the children in the Clan sibkos.. The Nerfinator is here. It will not stop until all the Clan weapons are nerfed into the ground, and their 'Mechs are nothing more than a shadow of the technologic wonder they have been... Can the last loyal warriors of the Clan stop it? Or will the evil nerfinator prevail and make them turn back to Inner Sphere 'Mechs? "