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Cooldown Modules Need A Counter Balance.


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#1 Dolph Hoskins

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 07:54 AM

Just kind of a proposal of a principle here, hopefully it may have some backing by some metrics on PGI's part.

Perhaps the new cooldown modules should have some sort of consequence for what they offer. Typically it is good design to have things of great power have a cost and currently cooldown modules are all gain and the pain is only for your opponents.

It would seem like a decrease in range to offset the increased fire rate on the premise that increased stress and wear and tear on weapons would reduce their function of accuracy.

I don't know for sure what kind of large lasting impact they may have in their current state, that is where developer info would prove anything. Just my observations that this may be a bit too hot at the moment.

Maybe in the future there could be a new heat dissipation module that would give a greater bonus to heat reduction while slightly increasing cooldown. That way their would be 3 modules of opposing pros and cons that could be cross selected for a certain level of desired weapon performance?

Just some ideas, thanks for reading.

#2 Lily from animove

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:00 AM

I think on energyweapons, these moduls are fine, since a module is most efficient on boating. And boating E weapons will mostlikely lead to faster overheat. This heavily limits the usage of said modules in the energy section.
But ballistics and missiles, that is kinda an issue right now in my opinion.

#3 Dolph Hoskins

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 08:02 AM

Yeah the first thing I did was unlock cooldown 5 for my clan gauss rifles. I almost feel bad for the mechs I am shooting at sometimes.

#4 Bigbacon

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 01:00 PM

isn't the balance the fact that you have less time to dissipate heat between shots? Notthat all weapon generate lots of heat (Ballastics)

#5 Thorqemada

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 10:31 PM

Cooldown Modules be the "We make Ballistics (AC/Gauss) even more Superior" Modules - there is no way to change that unless you do invent Armor-Types that have specific strengths against Energy, Explosive and AC damage.
If you do the Anti-AC/Gauss-Armor will balance Cooldown Modules for AC/Gauss.

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 September 2014 - 10:32 PM.


#6 Wolfways

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:28 AM

Modules in general are a bad idea imo. Mechs are already too fast (movement and torso twist) and weapon ROF is also too fast.
I'd be fine with modules if they increased mech/weapon speed to almost what we have now with non-basic skill mechs.

#7 Napoleon_Blownapart

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 03:39 AM

im waiting for a clanner to post "targeting computers are overpowered' instead of 'nerf this IS improved a little'
i loved watching clan mechs overheat the day these came out..
(i dont mean to point you out but this reminds me of a recent post that sorta went 'remove armlock' by someone who can remove clan actuators and get armlock back)

#8 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:02 AM

Ballistics gain the most from these cooldown modules, they're already low heat except for AC-2 builds.

The only thing I can see happening for energy builds, is the guys with CERLL + range5 +cooldown5 being alot more dangerous at max range doing the firehose of blue death, but also overheating alot quicker.

Its still situational.

What I would say could be a good counterbalance, is to start adding in either heat or start reducing the bonus cooldown for each additional weapon you have linked to that module.

For instance, say.. 3 AC5 banshee, 1 AC5 gives the full 12% cooldown, 2 AC5 would give 11% cooldown, 3 AC5 would only give 10% for the module ect. Its still a big boost, but offers less for boating.

Or the 6 UAC5, or 4 UAC10 Diashi builds, just offer less for boating, they're already doing insane DPS for very little heat, they don't need more.

Its still too early to really say, but IMO anything that decreases Time To Kill needs to be balanced delicately.

#9 n r g

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM

View PostThe Ripper13, on 12 September 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Just kind of a proposal of a principle here, hopefully it may have some backing by some metrics on PGI's part.

Perhaps the new cooldown modules should have some sort of consequence for what they offer. Typically it is good design to have things of great power have a cost and currently cooldown modules are all gain and the pain is only for your opponents.

It would seem like a decrease in range to offset the increased fire rate on the premise that increased stress and wear and tear on weapons would reduce their function of accuracy.

I don't know for sure what kind of large lasting impact they may have in their current state, that is where developer info would prove anything. Just my observations that this may be a bit too hot at the moment.

Maybe in the future there could be a new heat dissipation module that would give a greater bonus to heat reduction while slightly increasing cooldown. That way their would be 3 modules of opposing pros and cons that could be cross selected for a certain level of desired weapon performance?

Just some ideas, thanks for reading.


ugh you dense plebians.....

the counter is innate, you silly jester.

the more you shoot /faster youshoot energy weapons the hotter you get.

the more you shoot ballistics, the more ammo you need. etc.....etc..........

//endidioticthread

Edited by E N E R G Y, 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM.


#10 Kinski Orlawisch

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:47 AM

Faster Shooting....less weapons more heatsinks for more dps?

#11 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:01 AM

Yes heat will be an issue on Energy weapons they balance themselves out because of HPS, but not for ballistics and still almost nothing for LRM spammers.

Edited by Mister D, 14 September 2014 - 06:25 AM.


#12 Dolph Hoskins

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:41 AM

View PostE N E R G Y, on 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:


ugh you dense plebians.....

the counter is innate, you silly jester.

the more you shoot /faster youshoot energy weapons the hotter you get.

the more you shoot ballistics, the more ammo you need. etc.....etc..........

//endidioticthread



Oh thanks for gracing the thread.

You're points are nothing but obvious and avoiding of the clear outright bonus of being able to shoot so much faster with factors that remain the same within the dps that was already there.

The heat per shot and ammo per shot is unchanged making that a non issue to the concern of outright increased damage in a much shorter segment of time.

In the case of ballistics it is a huge power gain with no concern for much of anything.

Pleb

Edited by The Ripper13, 15 September 2014 - 07:48 AM.


#13 Lily from animove

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:52 AM

View PostE N E R G Y, on 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:


ugh you dense plebians.....

the counter is innate, you silly jester.

the more you shoot /faster youshoot energy weapons the hotter you get.

the more you shoot ballistics, the more ammo you need. etc.....etc..........

//endidioticthread


which cares some AC builds how much? Ah wait, let my DW just scratch his crotch while it laughs at the non existing heat of his 5 AC 5's. It just enjoys his free epeen enlargement.

your toxic attitute and way to flame around without thinking first is quite annoying and contributing nothing..

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 September 2014 - 07:53 AM.


#14 Thoummim

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 08:50 AM

View PostE N E R G Y, on 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:


ugh you dense plebians.....

the counter is innate, you silly jester.

the more you shoot /faster youshoot energy weapons the hotter you get.

the more you shoot ballistics, the more ammo you need. etc.....etc..........

//endidioticthread




For a lord you have very bad understanding of basic game mechanics.

More ammo for ballistic ? I dont think so once a mech is dead its dead no need to shoot at the corpse.

#15 Eaerie

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 08:53 AM

the cooldown modules have no downside at all for heavy ballistic mechs. Just because you CAN fire faster doesnt mean you just start throwing slugs out as soon as you see a target. It does allow you to increase your rate of fire (dps) when it matters, whenever you need it with NO real inherent liability. Ballistics in general do not worry much about heat. So you arguement about burning thru ammo is not valid, unless you are just throwing your ammo away to start with. Most ballistic users conserve ammo for shots that count, the CD module allows you to make more of those shots that count without any real negatives.

#16 Thorqemada

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 02:59 PM

View PostE N E R G Y, on 14 September 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:


ugh you dense plebians.....

the counter is innate, you silly jester.

the more you shoot /faster youshoot energy weapons the hotter you get.

the more you shoot ballistics, the more ammo you need. etc.....etc..........

//endidioticthread


I disagree about Ballistics, if you need 10 Rounds of IS-AC20 to kill an Assault you still Need 10 Rounds of IS-AC20 after the cooldown decrease - in fact you kill faster than b4 without needing more Ammo!

;)

#17 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:42 PM

Yep, and you're probably saving ammo.

If you're killing a guy faster, you're not having to chase him down and give him time to maneuver and bunnyhop his way to freedom.

#18 Kmieciu

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:45 PM

No wonder people are getting 1500+ damage per round in a 5xUAC5+6ERSL Dire Wolves.

#19 Brut4ce

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:02 PM

View PostThorqemada, on 15 September 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:


I disagree about Ballistics, if you need 10 Rounds of IS-AC20 to kill an Assault you still Need 10 Rounds of IS-AC20 after the cooldown decrease - in fact you kill faster than b4 without needing more Ammo!

;)


Well, thats not completely true. Accuracy has not been factored in there. One might be able to dish out a bit more damage but not necessarily "kill" faster. So i'd have to agree with ENERGY on that one. Also good pilots will always be good pilots no matter what they "nerf" or "buff" and whatnot... These have always seemed like "silly" terms for me.

#20 Lily from animove

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:12 PM

View PostBrut4ce, on 15 September 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:


Well, thats not completely true. Accuracy has not been factored in there. One might be able to dish out a bit more damage but not necessarily "kill" faster. So i'd have to agree with ENERGY on that one. Also good pilots will always be good pilots no matter what they "nerf" or "buff" and whatnot... These have always seemed like "silly" terms for me.


But no matter how good you are if you are at the heatcap you can not fire faster, or does "being a good pilot" magically increase heat dissipation?





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