34 replies to this topic

[5LeafClover]

Not new to MWO, but new to lights.

I recently chose Spiders as my first light and have bought 2 chassis so far. Reasons for choosing were:
>I liked the 4MG trial mech as a cadet
>One chassis has ECM
>Jump Jets
>Interesting Looks
>Different from my Cicadas (Size & Layout)

However, now I own them, I think I've lost my love for them and wonder whether I'd have been better going Fire Starter or Raven (or turn traitor & go Kit Fox).

Admittedly, I haven't upgraded the engines yet, but this is a big commitment, so need to make sure they're right for me. I guess it's a case of "should've known better" and factored in the XL costs, but I didn't appreciate just how awful a spider would be fresh out the packet.

Options I'm looking at are:
1. Bite the bullet and finish grinding the spiders
2. Sell 'em, by a 3rd Atlas, then come back to lights later with FS9 / RVN
3. Sell 'em and just opt for a hero light (probably Anansi of Ember) rather than grinding a whole set of lights

So, my questions are:
1. Are all lights useless without XL?
2. Is there an "easier" light to play?
3. Are lights sufficiently fun to bother playing with at all?

[Spheroid]

Answers:

1. Yes

2. The Spider may survive longer due to its broken hitbox however the Firestarter is almost as tough while having greater firepower. The Jenner is still top tier assuming you are running 280-300XL.

3. Yes

You can fit many more common engines in the 35 tonners. I recommend you stay with lights but try something else. Mechbays are going to be 50% this weekend there is hardly a need to sell anything off.

Edited by Spheroid, 16 September 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

I would definitely invest in an XL. Most commonly a light will die due to losing one or both legs and not from a side torso, and more speed will make you all that much harder to hit.

[UrsusMorologus]

I have Firestarters and they're principly for speed+damage (6+ hardpoints) but not very good for deep incursions due to lack of ECM. This means they are mostly good for shadowing your group and dealing with any lights that come into reach. Spiders are much better for deep incursion due to ECM, plus they have the same mobility. You can also rig them for damage if you like.

Overall you need more than one chassis for the full light experience.

[PACoFist]

Get a Kitfox. I have both Spiders and Foxes. KFX is simply better. (that is unless clan mechs get hit by the nerfhammer)

[Papapeshu]

I'm primarily a heavy pilot but I worked through to master the Spider chassis awhile ago.
Took me some getting used to and decided without a strict caffeine diet I'd leave the light role to others!

That said, if I ever changed my mind and purchased another light chassis I would stick with it and master it before selling no matter how bad I played in it.
Purely 'cos I'm a tight ****

[Timuroslav]

Kitfox in my opinion is garbage sauce. It's not as fast as you want it to be. Yes, it has immense firepower, but does a Light Mech need Firepower? Especially, when your roles are scouting and fire support. Keep in mind the Kitfox is huge. You are going to be legged significantly more. Firepower has a price. A lot of the Clansmen do not like it because it does not have the speed of a spider or a Jenner and it does not do the role of Scout nearly as well as the Spider or the Raven 3L or Commando 2D.
The Kitfox is primarily used as a utility kit. Yes; you can put a LRM-20 on it, but you're going to get strange looks if you're running anything that does not have ECM or triple AMS. It's seen as kind of a Defensive Kit Box, with legs. It does not have the small profile of the Commando or Spider so Scouting is much harder, and the Arm mounts are low, so sniping is not a factor.

The role a Kitfox can do; is light-hunting. The Ballistic slot on the arm and the ECM arm component makes other light mechs run, but not cower. Your C-bills are better spent on mechs that can go faster and are smaller. Heck I'd even say the Commando 2D with its Ultra small hitboxes is a better scout than the lumbering Kit fox.

Edited by Timuroslav, 16 September 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[Ertur]

You cannot judge any light until you have a max XL engine in it, with a standard engine you are either super slow or super under armed. I'm going to assume that you got the 5D and 5K. You can get one XL255 to share for them both, and build the 5K just like the trial one you've been running (1 ER LL, 4xMG) and either use 3x Medium Pulse Lasers or 1 ER LL (CT) 2x ML (arm) on the 5D. Also you'll need endo, DHS, and FF. Light mechs aren't expensive to buy stock, but you will spend nearly twice as much on upgrades as you did for the mech itself. That's true for ALL lights except heros and the Raven 3L (which is expensive from the start, but you'll still spend another 5 million or so on it). If you get the 5V I would go with max engine (XL), 2 ML, BAP, and a bunch of JJ. It will still be underwhelming, but you at least have a role -- find enemy ECM lights and ruin their ECM with your BAP.

edit to add: I didn't answer the questions, did I?
1. Yes, XL mandatory for lights.
2. Not really. Jenner, Firestarter, and Spider are all good starter lights.
3. Yes, lights are very excellent mechs to learn to use well, and can be a hoot to run.


Stick with it. Keep putting on upgrades as you can until you get them set up. Once you have them set up, you'll have a much better time.
Here's some builds (ignore the c on the 5K, you can do the exact same build with a regular 5K. Yes, running what amounts to a stock trial mech spider can actually be good):
SDR-5D ERLL
SDR-5K(C)
Annoyer

Skip the annoyer if you get the hero, which is much better.

Edited by Ertur, 16 September 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Ramon B]

Buy a XL255 and play with them: once you skill them up to elite, you will now they are amazing

[Rogue Jedi]

5LeafClover, on 16 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

my questions are:
1. Are all lights useless without XL?
2. Is there an "easier" light to play?
3. Are lights sufficiently fun to bother playing with at all?

in answer to your questions,
1. perhaps not useless, but an XL is a huge improvement for all current Lights however if you invest in an XL255, that will do for all the spiders and a 255, 280 or 295 work well in all the 35ton lights
2. the spider is hard to hit, that is its biggest advantage, but the 35 Ton lights are all easier to play, and do decent damage with, you may find the Firestarter or Kit Fox a better first light
the Firestarter still has good hitboxes but mounts a lot more firepower and a bit more armor
the Kit Fox is really slow compared to most common Inner Sphere light builds you will see in game but it can mount a LOT of firepower compared to the IS lights, it can mount an ECM on any varient (provided you fit the C right arm omnipod), it has the Omnimech advantages of being able to be reconfigured for almost any role, and is ready to go, no 5 million+ cbill engine required
3. I consider lights to be the most fun class of Mech, due to the speed and the thrill of piloting something where 1 lucky alpha strike can kill you



the Spider is in my opinion the most fun Mech in the game to play, however to make it work well you really need an XL255 engine (it works great in all 4 variants but costs 4,165,000 Cbills). if you are having trouble with Spiders, I suggest you try a Firestarter then come back to the Spider, however you will still need an XL engine for the Firestarter (the Champion comes with the XL295 the biggest engine a FS9 can use). or you could purchase a mech whhich comes with the XL255 or XL250 (the 255 weighs the same as the 250) and come back to the Spider later.

as you already own Cicadas the Jenner could be the logical next step, think of it as a Cicada with Jumpjets, however you will still need an XL engine (the 280 or 300 seem to work best for Jenners), and the Jenner does have a large front CT, and has very different handling and hitboxes to the Spider

[SnagaDance]

5LeafClover, on 16 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

1. Are all lights useless without XL?

You've already got the answer to this one but I'd add that Lights only get better with Endo, and most builds can also use FF. In addition, with the exception of a few builds (mostly revolving around a good amount of MG's) you'll also want DHS. There's no bigger death sentence for a Light then suddenly shutting down.

These are the hidden costs of Lights that often make them far more expensive to play than other, heavier mechs. But they're fun to play if you like speed and quick movement.

Edited by SnagaDance, 16 September 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[5LeafClover]

Thanks guys. I think I'll stick with it after all. 4mil is a lot, but hopefully that will be the watershed moment to a usable mech.

Still tempted by the fire starter, but think I'll do that as well at a later date rather than instead.

[3xnihilo]

I got some really good help here with my spider piloting:

http://mwomercs.com/...zy-high-scores/

Also if you are not opposed to buying mc the spider champion already has the 255xl engine in it and the anansi has the 240xl.

I love my spiders but it is definitely a completely different mindset than running heavies or assaults. Or really anything else I think. It is more about being a pest and distracting the enemy so your team can kill them off rather than it is about doing massive amounts of damage, not to say you don't get those rounds sometimes but they are harder to come by. Have fun and never stop moving.

[5LeafClover]

Champion is a brilliant idea I hadn't even considered! As luck would have it, it's the variant I don't yet have. Effectively, under £4 sparing me around 8 hours grind.

Also, Thanks for the link.

[Ertur]

5LeafClover, on 16 September 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Thanks guys. I think I'll stick with it after all. 4mil is a lot, but hopefully that will be the watershed moment to a usable mech.

Still tempted by the fire starter, but think I'll do that as well at a later date rather than instead.

Come back in a few days (or whenever you are able to run with a faster engine a few times) and let us know how it's going.

[InspectorG]

Spiders are good, dont worry.

BUT.

There is a steep learning curve to using lights well.
You just cant output damage like heavier mechs...unless...you play smart and beat on mechs who are already missing large chunks of armor.

Lights tend to have 'hidden' costs: usually a mandatory XLengine, as well as Endo. FF is situational/ likely not needed on spiders.

Spiders generally have few hardpoints so loadouts are minimal variety.
The D gets an ECM, use if for the exp boost/counter-ecm, use it to help teammates(ugh, dont get me started on lrm/ecm...)
At best you get:
3ml or 3mpl, or 1ll+2sl, 1erppc...few options for the D

The V, lol, gets 2ml, 2mpl, 2sl, 2spl, 1ll...the MPL being the best. Use the V in stock only matches...there it is a beast!!!

K gets a laser and up to 4mg, if you like mg

You get good speed, can jump as well.

BEST 'feature' is the hitboxes...even if unintended. You magically shrug off more damage than you should.

A good role to start with is 'vulturing'. You essentially pot shot all match and about halfway though when the enemy starts to hurt, beat on their hurt mechs.

Heavies/assaults look for bare legs(ammo explosions), exposed RT/CT. LOOK FOR A GOOD BACKSTAB!

Try not to fight other lights in a circle of death, you may win but will likely not last long after.

There is no shame in running away...as long as you intend to hit back. Do it on your own terms.

There is also the ERPPC sniper build, but that is beyond my experience and ive only seen a few do it well.

You can also 'hunt'. Basically wait till the battlelines are formed and look for that lone whale/Atlas/Stalker/Catapult sitting in the back all alone. This is like fishing so expect some days to have no fish...
Find a loner, shoot his back until he dies from it.
If you kill him, a hero is you!
If you dont, dont worry- if you get him to turn towards you, you just saved some teammate from getting shot. expect no recognition for this.
If he moves, you forced him out of position and helped the team.
Remember, if his friends come to help, RUN. RUN and Zig-Zag. Run around buildings and terrain


Always carry a UAV(helps xp bonus) and an arty
Radar Derp except for the D.
Get the module that saves your legs from falls.

Hope this helps.

Edited by InspectorG, 16 September 2014 - 07:15 PM.

[Gangnail]

Rule #1 never evaluate a chassis until you have elited it.Get tue XL engine and give the spiders a chance

[JC Daxion]

Ramon B, on 16 September 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Buy a XL255 and play with them: once you skill them up to elite, you will now they are amazing

well you did mention that you had an atlas,,, So that might make me think you like assaults? Well one of the Stalkers comes with an XL-255.. If you don't mind grinding for a bit, why not buy that instead, and then you get the engine, and a stalker for one price!

I have played a little of the ravens, and i like um, but they are more nitch, and not as popular it seems.


firestarter, and spider seem like the two more popular, with the FS hero, being a very popular mech, 4 machine guns with 4 lasers. But then again, they are also a one trick pony for the most part, so you see an ember, you know how to beat it before you even target it.


all that said,, I'd grind through it, get to elite level and stuff a nice sized XL in it.. 235-255 should be just fine.

[Lily from animove]

spider love?

http://images1.fanpo...756_600_401.jpg

at least hitreg does love them and let some hits disappear into nowhere.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 September 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[Turist0AT]

Just get Firestarters, you wont regret it.