102 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

General Taskeen, on 16 September 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

The "claw" on the King Crab was used for melee purposes, grabbing, punching, ripping, whatever. Its the hand actuator. Another reason you never move your unit anywhere in close range to a King Crab in TT. Serves no practical purpose in mwo, since no melee.

Also not sure what the fuss is about split crits. Programming could simply allow it only on a Mech or mech variant that used it, in this case a King Crab. Voila. There is a Catapult that has an Arrow IV, so allow it on that Catapult only. Voila. The simplest solution, that doesn't cause issues (in this case "over customization issues"), is normally the better one.

The claw originally wasn't, actually, and was even described as an armored cover to protect the AC.

Also, pickign things up, with that hgue ac barrel in the way,a ways seemed....soemwhat problematic.

[Xarian]

Split crits on the crab doesn't mean split crits for everybody. Just like the Hellslinger has a unique quirk, the King Crab could have similar.

Most of the pictures I've seen just show that the doors are used to protect the barrels of the ballistics weapons. I'm not against melee claws at all! In fact, I'd love to see them - but what I'd love even more is the ability to swap between the two. Imagine being able to choose doors for reduced arm/torso damage (when the doors are closed), or claws for melee - swappable using the Upgrade screen. Of course, this would also require MWO to include melee, which I think will make its appearance in late 2014/early 2015.

[Mcgral18]

Sandpit, on 16 September 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm on the fence about split crits...

They could create a lot more headaches in the balance department, although it would give certain chassis a lot more viability.

maybe split crits could requite no arm lock as a trade-off?

Well, lore wise it had the opposite effect; a permanent arm lock, since the split weapon took the component with less movement.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 16 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well, lore wise it had the opposite effect; a permanent arm lock, since the split weapon took the component with less movement.

Agreed but that's not how it works here. Arm lock actually helps get a PPD FLD. having those crosshairs move independently (which I've also suggested for big bore torso mounted weapons as well) would solve the issue almost entirely.

[TLBFestus]

In tandem with the release of the King Crab maybe you should consider issuing a WarHorn that is appropriate for it.

My suggestion;

ZOIDBERG

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 16 September 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Delayed shots if closed but increased chance of crit if hit while open?

wat
http://mwomercs.com/...17#entry1640617
http://mwomercs.com/...88#entry3056588

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Courtesy of Pariah Devalis remembering to ask Russ about something I forgot (well I also promised Russ only 1 question last night, which was the Mad Dog clarification)



Bam. The Bishop called it. The Bishop is pleased. But will they do it with Hand and Lower Arm Actuators? Original tro 2750 all contained in the arms, or revised, and annoying split crit version of later publications? (Which would likely restrict range of fire even more)

Anyhow.......................

Let the Split Crit Conspiracy begin!!!!

WIll we be able to crush Commandos in our claws?

[Empyrus]

I think splitscrits should be implemented (prefer things to stay true to the tabletop construction rules).
Sure, it opens up some possibilities that are perhaps worrying.... but i'm going to argue they're not going to be really big deal. People make some amazingly optimized and effective builds already, some more options isn't a big deal.

Besides, splitcrits could be balanced too, like requiring both locations having ballistic hardpoints (ie the King Crab would have one per arm and side torso, but the split weapon requires both the arm and torso hardpoints (and quad ballistics is not an issue, we have mechs with such already...)).

[Artgathan]

In general split-crits would just invalidate the existence of even more mech variants, so I'm opposed to them for that reason.

Consider the upcoming CN9-AH. It's big advantage is being able to tote an AC/20 (something the other c-bill Centurions can't do). However, with split-crits the CN9-AH just becomes a rather lack-luster CN9-A (or D, depending on the number of ballistic hardpoints).

[KamikazeRat]

Im on the fence about split-crits. One hand; greater customization. on the other...greater customization.

so, XL hunchbacks, and Boom-pults, and friggin wierd builds. (imagine what this would allow to fit in the atlai gun side torso o.0 )
so on one hand, i would get to play with these wild and crazy things....on the other...SO WOULD EVERYONE ELSE....which scares me a little.

as far as the weapon door hands...actually not happy on that one....being partially color-blind...i can't tell when the doors are open and when they are closed. (i can tell that the light is changing colors, but can't really tell which color im changing it to) i have to either go 3pv if i can see them from the back (catapult mainly) or test-fire to check for a delay. Visually, cool(come on, freaking crab hands) but in play, it will be a constant aggrivation to me and alot of other people i've talked to about it ("are my doors open" is a frequent topic of discussion when i play with friends)

it needs to have 3 lights in 3 different locations
Green : open
Yellow: closed
Red: destroyed
(yes like a traffic light, this is pretty much the exact reason they are that way to start with)
Doing it this way would also allow for multiple lights, i.e. catapult looses 1 arm, but the other arm is in the open state. Green and Red could be on. letting you know, one is blown up, but the other is open

Edited by KamikazeRat, 16 September 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Artgathan]

KamikazeRat, on 16 September 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Im on the fence about split-crits. One hand; greater customization. on the other...greater customization.

so, XL hunchbacks, and Boom-pults, and friggin wierd builds. (imagine what this would allow to fit in the atlai gun side torso o.0 )
so on one hand, i would get to play with these wild and crazy things....on the other...SO WOULD EVERYONE ELSE....which scares me a little.

as far as the weapon door hands...actually not happy on that one....being partially color-blind...i can't tell when the doors are open and when they are closed. (i can tell that the light is changing colors, but can't really tell which color im changing it to) i have to either go 3pv if i can see them from the back (catapult mainly) or test-fire to check for a delay. Visually, cool(come on, freaking crab hands) but in play, it will be a constant aggrivation to me and alot of other people i've talked to about it ("are my doors open" is a frequent topic of discussion when i play with friends)

it needs to have 3 lights in 3 different locations
Green : open
Yellow: closed
Red: destroyed
(yes like a traffic light, this is pretty much the exact reason they are that way to start with)
Doing it this way would also allow for multiple lights, i.e. catapult looses 1 arm, but the other arm is in the open state. Green and Red could be on. letting you know, one is blown up, but the other is open

They could add it to the weapon list (like they did with AMS - but instead of colors for 'open/closed' simply have it say OPEN or CLOSED). I'm not colorblind, but in certain lighting conditions (and in thermal/night vision), discerning the color of the light is impossible/difficult. This is a change that could help everyone!

[KamikazeRat]

Artgathan, on 16 September 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

They could add it to the weapon list (like they did with AMS - but instead of colors for 'open/closed' simply have it say OPEN or CLOSED). I'm not colorblind, but in certain lighting conditions (and in thermal/night vision), discerning the color of the light is impossible/difficult. This is a change that could help everyone!

i uh...didnt think of that....lol, maybe easier for them to implement too.

[Targetloc]

[Russ Bullock]

Only read the first page so apologies If I am behind.

Yes the original idea was that we could apply the missile door button to the claws.

The split crits thing has come up but nothing decided there yet, we can take suggestions but we want it to fit within our current game functionality if possible.

[Carrioncrows]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Only read the first page so apologies If I am behind.

Yes the original idea was that we could apply the missile door button to the claws.

The split crits thing has come up but nothing decided there yet, we can take suggestions but we want it to fit within our current game functionality if possible.

Just give the Arms more slots

We were discussing the whole "Traits and Quirks" pass on IS mechs. Simply having more slots in the arms could be the King Krab's trait.

[wanderer]

Quote

Consider the upcoming CN9-AH. It's big advantage is being able to tote an AC/20 (something the other c-bill Centurions can't do). However, with split-crits the CN9-AH just becomes a rather lack-luster CN9-A (or D, depending on the number of ballistic hardpoints).

Except, of course that the -AH would have a better field of fire- a split-crit Centurion would have the arm firing as a torso-mounted weapon for purposes of firing arc. The CN9-A or -D would be able to carry an AC/20, but it'd be firing it with far less agility. It's the difference between a boomJager and a boomCat in that regard.

[KamikazeRat]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Only read the first page so apologies If I am behind.

Yes the original idea was that we could apply the missile door button to the claws.

The split crits thing has come up but nothing decided there yet, we can take suggestions but we want it to fit within our current game functionality if possible.

i keep forgetting that he...like...talks to us now.....

anyway...hey russ, how about a better visual for doors open/closed from in the cockpit? the little doodad is a pain for color-blind and color seeing alike

[Agent 0 Fortune]

On the one hand removing 2 actuators in each arm is an advantage, 4 more critical slots total, pretty significant for a 100 ton mech. On the other hand, I really hate the idea of split crits as it opens a huge can of worms with regards to other mechs.
If possible only allow it on the King Crab, and other canon split-crit mechs.

[Artgathan]

wanderer, on 16 September 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Except, of course that the -AH would have a better field of fire- a split-crit Centurion would have the arm firing as a torso-mounted weapon for purposes of firing arc. The CN9-A or -D would be able to carry an AC/20, but it'd be firing it with far less agility. It's the difference between a boomJager and a boomCat in that regard.

The -AH wouldn't have a better field of fire though - it sacrifices the Lower Arm actuator to fit in the AC/20. No lower arm actuator = no horizontal arm movement = locked to torso movement.

Granted, it retains the Upper Arm actuator and thus would have a greater vertical field of fire, but that's only a loss of ~10 degrees of movement (in terms of performance, you lose ~30% of the firing angle). It's not a huge difference (in my opinion), and one that's worth taking for the ability to cram in even more weapons (lasers, more missiles...).

[Gas Guzzler]

KamikazeRat, on 16 September 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

i keep forgetting that he...like...talks to us now.....

anyway...hey russ, how about a better visual for doors open/closed from in the cockpit? the little doodad is a pain for color-blind and color seeing alike

There is an indicator for doors being opened or closed??


As far as split crits go, lets just not do it so the King Crab can have vertical arm movement and to not have to mess with adding that functionality to the game.