102 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Only read the first page so apologies If I am behind.

Yes the original idea was that we could apply the missile door button to the claws.

The split crits thing has come up but nothing decided there yet, we can take suggestions but we want it to fit within our current game functionality if possible.

If you ask me [which I assume you are because I automatically assume that I'm the center of any discussion that I approach], since we don't have a function of lower hand actuators we can just leave them off. They're not really needed in the game at all until there's a hand-activity that can be executed. When a hand-function enters the game, you can probably withhold that function from the King Crabs anyways because the "claws" are just gun shrouds and are occluded by the big gun barrel inside. Just assign them a missile bay door function (+X% health when closed) and say "That's their hands, now."

It would be best to remove both the lower arm and the hand actuators for models that can mount an AC/20, and put a lower arm in for units that don't mount AC/20 by default. Follow the same old rules for limb mobility, and keep it simple.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 September 2014 - 04:32 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

So if the shield claws open and close, doesn't that mean there will be a big delay from when you press FIRE, to when the cannon fires and the shields re-close?

Just thinking of how hard it was to use a SRM6 on my Kintaro when it was packed in that armor trap hardpoint..

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Prosperity Park, on 16 September 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

If you ask me [which I assume you are because I automatically assume that I'm the center of any discussion that I approach], since we don't have a function of lower hand actuators we can just leave them off. They're not really needed in the game at all until there's a hand-activity that can be executed. When a hand-function enters the game, you can probably withhold that function from the King Crabs anyways because the "claws" are just gun shrouds and are occluded by the big gun barrel inside. Just assign them a missile bay door function (+X% health when closed) and say "That's their hands, now."

It would be best to remove both the lower arm and the hand actuators for models that can mount an AC/20, and put a lower arm in for units that don't mount AC/20 by default. Follow the same old rules for limb mobility, and keep it simple.

Actually the King Crab is the first mech to "need" hand actuators (to open claws). maybe get rid of lower and upper arm actuators (and really restrict arm movement.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister D, on 16 September 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

So if the shield claws open and close, doesn't that mean there will be a big delay from when you press FIRE, to when the cannon fires and the shields re-close?

Just thinking of how hard it was to use a SRM6 on my Kintaro when it was packed in that armor trap hardpoint..

not if you manually open them first, just like the Catapult otr Centurion.

[KamikazeRat]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 September 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

There is an indicator for doors being opened or closed??

if (sarcasm =yes)
-yeah, its that tiny, hard to see light on the column of your canopy
if (sarcasm =no)
-yeah, its that tiny, hard to see light on the column of your canopy

Edited by KamikazeRat, 16 September 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 September 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

There is an indicator for doors being opened or closed??


As far as split crits go, lets just not do it so the King Crab can have vertical arm movement and to not have to mess with adding that functionality to the game.

There's an LED on the side of the cockpit that has the missile bay doors. Two in the Catapult, one on the Cent, for example.

Yellow is closed, Green is open.

[Hillslam]

Not craw.

CRAW!

[Targetloc]

[Pariah Devalis]

Gee. I'm still ticked my phone chose THAT QUESTION to go nutso on the autocorrect.


Upside, hoe dome: New Anti-Missile System. Fires hookers at oncoming missiles.

[Gas Guzzler]

KamikazeRat, on 16 September 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

if (sarcasm =yes)
-yeah, its that tiny, hard to see light on the column of your canopy
if (sarcasm =no)
-yeah, its that tiny, hard to see light on the column of your canopy

Mcgral18, on 16 September 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

There's an LED on the side of the cockpit that has the missile bay doors. Two in the Catapult, one on the Cent, for example.

Yellow is closed, Green is open.

No sarcasm... I just thought you had to keep track of how many times you clicked the button.... learn something new everyday...

[Haakon Magnusson]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Only read the first page so apologies If I am behind.

Yes the original idea was that we could apply the missile door button to the claws.

The split crits thing has come up but nothing decided there yet, we can take suggestions but we want it to fit within our current game functionality if possible.

Frankly, forget split crits. Let us just use good old v1 2750 field manual, which had none of this split criticals sillyness... not to mention implementation-wise it is far simpler.

Best of both worlds and you don't have to re-invent the wheel.



EDIT: Oh and openable claws, awesome! same artistic liberty which have been taken in original art. I mean, the lost actuators went obviously to a good use

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 17 September 2014 - 05:35 AM.

[Christof Romulus]

Just for clarification, as there appears to be a misconception on the damage reduction that doors provide:
CLOSED doors provide a 10% damage resistance TO COMPONENTS (such as a medium laser, or in this case an AC 20).
CLOSED doors receive 100% damage from all sources to Armor AND Structure.

[KamikazeRat]

Christof Romulus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Just for clarification, as there appears to be a misconception on the damage reduction that doors provide:
CLOSED doors provide a 10% damage resistance TO COMPONENTS (such as a medium laser, or in this case an AC 20).
CLOSED doors receive 100% damage from all sources to Armor AND Structure.

This...idk how many people say "keep the doors closed its like free armor"
i've actually been correcting them wrongly. i said it only worked for internals, i was close....

[Foxfire kadrpg]

Crabbattle!

[Monky]

I am fine with implementation of split crits for the KC.

I think, like posted above, it is also unnecessary. Split crits weren't originally used, so we can choose either.

Edited by Monky, 22 September 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 17 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Crabbattle!

When December comes, and my crab gracefully strides the battlefield; I shall be that brave cave demon, dwelling in forest colony. Any who enter will have their knives swiftly broken and their eyes claimed for my collection!

OLIOLIOOOO

[Zordicron]

Split seems stupid IMO, to add a mechanic like that for the one mech is a waste of resources. if all they are after is simply some way to control range of motion, they can hardwire that in to the chassis, or even use quirk system if they want.

So, no split criticals, just use quirks it will be much faster and less complicated.

[Morang]

It's probably better not to include split crits, yes.

Of suitable King Crab versions, all display different approach to arm actuators.

"Prime" 000 variant and downgraded 0000 have four actuators per arm and split crits for AC/20s.

010 variant drops hand actuators even though arm guns are LB-10X - solely to make space for EndoSteel (because it has more secondary weapons than FerroFibrous-equipped original 000).

001 variant additionally drops lower arm actuators to make space for XL Engine and EndoSteel as well, having a Gauss rifle with two tons of ammo in each arm.

So, only 000 and 0000 Crabs do have split crits and hand actuators. Trying to make them this way will both give PGI unwanted troubles and deny other Crabs of iconic claws, also (if abiding by rules) denying arm-mounted big guns of 000 ANY degree of freedom relative to torso and not giving most other benefits of hand/lower arm actuators (because of no melee and no knockdowns/standups).

I think that it's better to just give iconic protective claws to all Crabs and throw away hand and lower arm actuators of 000 and 0000 (if present), granting them vertical firing arc for arm-mounted guns.

Edited by Morang, 24 September 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Christof Romulus, on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Just for clarification, as there appears to be a misconception on the damage reduction that doors provide:
CLOSED doors provide a 10% damage resistance TO COMPONENTS (such as a medium laser, or in this case an AC 20).
CLOSED doors receive 100% damage from all sources to Armor AND Structure.

KamikazeRat, on 17 September 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

This...idk how many people say "keep the doors closed its like free armor"
i've actually been correcting them wrongly. i said it only worked for internals, i was close....

Take a PPC or AC10, or AC20. Go to the Testing Grounds, Forest Colony is good.

The Catapult has 40 arm armour stock. Note how many rounds it takes to remove all armour.

CPLT-A1

If you didn't guess, or test, it takes 5 PPCs/AC10s, or 3 AC20 rounds, instead of the 4/2. Now, tag it with a laser a few times until the IS is exposed and nearly untouched. It has 20 IS, and should take a single AC20 round to destroy everything, even without any crits (3 damage per crit).

It took 2 AC20 rounds to destroy it.

10% damage reduction, for both IS and Armour.

Edited by Mcgral18, 24 September 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Let us just use good old v1 2750 field manual, which had none of this split criticals sillyness... not to mention implementation-wise it is far simpler.

Except that it also proceeds to render multiple Clan and IS designs from the later 3050's impossible to build.

And even designs FROM TRO 3050, most notably the Catapult.

Do it right the first time. TRO 2750 v1 has been erratated for twenty-five frickin years at this point to the correct (split-location) layout.