81 replies to this topic

[THumper9669]

How about resetting the clans to what they are suppose to be instead of turning them down all the time. You have them so nerfed that they are now weaker then the IS mechs in a lot of aspects. I have been told by a couple of the devs that they want to keep the mechs the way they are suppose to be yet they insist that the clans have to be turned down. Latest is lets turn the Clan ER Large down to 600 m instead of what they are suppose to be. I find it more of a challenge to fight IS or Clan the way they were meant to be not just balanced cause a bunch of non fighters whined that they are over powered. Go back to TT rules and reset according to that and it will be a lot better. As to those that say it is a pay to win game, it isnt as the clan mechs are being released for C bills as well as MC so it balances out. Some people just bought the mechs from the start to say they have them before others. Besides this game is more skill then just buying a win. You have a few that dropped tons of cash in to mechs and still cant hit the broad side of a barn.

Another note:
How about a blank chassis with say open hard points for weapons so people can build some of their own. Keep the rest the same but at least give us that option.

Again un nerf the game and reset so the IS and CLAN mechs so they fall with in TT rules for what they are.

[Monkey Lover]

If you think clans are bad now you're going to get really mad soon. They're not done nerfing them.

[Russ Bullock]

Monkey Lover, on 16 September 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

If you think clans are bad now you're going to get really mad soon. They're not done nerfing them.

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

[Murphy7]

THumper9669, on 16 September 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

How about resetting the clans to what they are suppose to be instead of turning them down all the time. You have them so nerfed that they are now weaker then the IS mechs in a lot of aspects. I have been told by a couple of the devs that they want to keep the mechs the way they are suppose to be yet they insist that the clans have to be turned down. Latest is lets turn the Clan ER Large down to 600 m instead of what they are suppose to be. I find it more of a challenge to fight IS or Clan the way they were meant to be not just balanced cause a bunch of non fighters whined that they are over powered. Go back to TT rules and reset according to that and it will be a lot better. As to those that say it is a pay to win game, it isnt as the clan mechs are being released for C bills as well as MC so it balances out. Some people just bought the mechs from the start to say they have them before others. Besides this game is more skill then just buying a win. You have a few that dropped tons of cash in to mechs and still cant hit the broad side of a barn.

Another note:
How about a blank chassis with say open hard points for weapons so people can build some of their own. Keep the rest the same but at least give us that option.

Again un nerf the game and reset so the IS and CLAN mechs so they fall with in TT rules for what they are.

Paragraph 1 - Some these balancing changes are there to make the sides competitve without it being as clear a tech advantage as was shown in the early invasion on table top. One reason for this ahead of CW - numbers balancing doesn't seem to be possible, so you will be seeing drops of 12 clan vs 12 inner sphere, where in TT the scenario might be balanced around 5 clan vs 8 inner sphere or 10 clan vs 12 inner sphere. Another reason is that the computer environment isn't the table top environment - players are much more accurate and far better at grouping their fire than dice rolling each hit and each location provides. Same idea has us with double armor, more ammunition, and a skewed heat generation / heat dissipation scale.

Paragraph (sentence really) 2 - Not for love or money would I ever want to see this. There is a reason meta rhymes with feta, and truly open mech design will exceed meta/feta past gouda or cheddar firmly into limberger areas. No thank you.

TT has the Clan technology very firmly superior in all ways to Inner Sphere technology, what are the odds you're HUD is more blue than yellow most drops?

[Felbombling]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

In all honesty, this should have been in from the very beginning. You are balancing from a point that makes no sense without the traditional heat penalties associated with a side torso destruction.

[Mcgral18]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

I do have one suggestion...please stop nerfing heat. It's a blanket nerf that hurts every mech, rather than the problem ones.

You hurt my CuteFox more than anything with the MPL nerfs.


You can adjust range, damage and recycle, as well as give individual mechs quirks, but please avoid blanket nerfs. It hurts the already poor chassis a lot more than the two good chassis'.

[Innocent]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

That is nice but it would be nice if there was another clan vs IS event to look at the balance before adding any more nerfs. Whenever you balance something it seems rare that you adjust something back up. Wait till the Clan 2 release to get more low weight clan mechs and run the factions again. Then if there is still a problem change something else.

You are going to make all these changes and look up to find the balance has shifted the other way.

[EboneezeeR]

THumper9669, on 16 September 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Again un nerf the game and reset so the IS and CLAN mechs so they fall with in TT rules for what they are.

TT is not a LORE. MWO is not a TT. Nothing be reseted.

Edited by EboneezeeR, 16 September 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

Mcgral18, on 16 September 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

I do have one suggestion...please stop nerfing heat. It's a blanket nerf that hurts every mech, rather than the problem ones.

You hurt my CuteFox more than anything with the MPL nerfs.


You can adjust range, damage and recycle, as well as give individual mechs quirks, but please avoid blanket nerfs. It hurts the already poor chassis a lot more than the two good chassis'.

The XL conundrum should've been tackled before the assorted weapon nerfs (especially the heat ones) went into play.

[Carrioncrows]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

Well there are a few minor issues still

ER Small lasers being the same range as Clan small Pulse lasers for instance.

But the rest is within shouting distance of pretty well balanced.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 16 September 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Scratx]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

Please do. It's not just Clan XL's that need a penalty for losing a side torso, after all. Down the line we'll also have Light engines for the IS, which I fear will obsolete standard engines entirely if they don't have some sort of penalty as well. Such a penalty could be patterned after the one Clan XL's get.

(let's be fair, the ability to be a CT zombie is only truly useful in a handful of mechs, very few people would not make the trade-off for the tonnage in just about every other mech)

[Mawai]

Wow ... I am really impressed to find replies from Russ in so many threads.

As for clan mechs ... PGI decided to go with the 12 v 12 model for CW for some good technical reasons. They also have 12 v12 in the public queues. To make that work, clan mechs have to have more or less the same capability as IS mechs. This isn't TT where you can balance a match on point values and have 5 v 12 or whatever. As a result, the mechs have a certain flavour, clan weapons do more damage at longer range at a cost of more heat and longer burn time or parceled damage (multiple shot ACs).

In my opinion, it is more or less working so far ... clan mechs have a different feel but can be devastatingly effective ... while not being so much more powerful than IS mechs that there is no point in running IS mechs.

What you will never see is the OP clan tech from TT since it can't be made to work in a multi-player online 12v12 fornat game.

[Mcgral18]

Carrioncrows, on 16 September 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Well there are a few minor issues still

ER Small lasers being the same range as Clan small Pulse lasers for instance.

200% heat on isSL laser...

[Ph30nix]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

id honestly prefer if you guys just implement Light Fusion engines for IS, make whatever excuse timeline wise (access to prototypes or something)
That survivability boost to IS mechs along with the extra tonnage will go MILES to balancing things. Faster IS heavies/assaults (that normally use STD) along with some extra firepower, or same speeds but a nice boost in firepower. Since light fusions will give heavies and assaults anywhere from 5-12 tons extra two work with if they upgrade their STD.

[Metus regem]

Russ Bullock, on 16 September 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Well this isn't necessarily true. The only thing that I think nearly every person supports is the notion of some penalty for a destroyed LT or RT.

Other than that I am hoping to be able to leave the clans be and try and work with the IS Quirk system. The Clan mechs as they currently are still have all the special traits we promised they would have and honestly they are still very powerful.

Currently were asking for some more patience as we find something that can truly work within CW.

As a clan player I appreciate that, but as a clan player, I think it's very odd, that omni mechs are less customisable then the IS mechs, that have a record of needing massive, expensive and time intensive overhauls. Something like going to an Endo S. Chassis should cost a lot more than it does... last time I look at it on a Dragon 1C it was something like 600,000 C-bills, that's about 1/7th of the mech's cost.

Personally I would like the IS mechs locked to either the Endo or Standard chassis, as well as fixed engine sizes, like they should have. This is due in large part to the lore of the game; the chassis and engine are like the skeleton and heart of the mech… For example, if you take a WHM-6D (Warhammer) and change it from a standard chassis to an Endo chassis it’s no longer a WHM-6D, it’s now a WHM-8D (first stock Warhammer with Endo), I hope that makes some sense.

I would have also liked to see the Clan mechs be truly modular, in that the pod space, was just that pod space, not hard points like the IS mechs, but I do understand that something like that would have required a major re-write of the game code, so I live with the way things are now, just means I have to get a little creative to get some builds, read lack of omni pod XP buff.

That all being said, you have done a wonderful job with the game sofar, and I look forward to see what you do in the future….

Also as a side note, according to the ruling in Japan, Harmony Gold never actually had the rights to the Macross Mechs, since they never got them from Studio Nu (or Big West), the creators of that franchise, so any chance I could see a WHM-6R?

[EboneezeeR]

Ph30nix, on 16 September 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

id honestly prefer if you guys just implement Light Fusion engines for IS, make whatever excuse timeline wise (access to prototypes or something)
That survivability boost to IS mechs along with the extra tonnage will go MILES to balancing things. Faster IS heavies/assaults (that normally use STD) along with some extra firepower, or same speeds but a nice boost in firepower. Since light fusions will give heavies and assaults anywhere from 5-12 tons extra two work with if they upgrade their STD.

FE/SFE 2100
LFE 2500
XLFE 2650
XXLFE 2720

What time scale?

TL:DR

[Ph30nix]

EboneezeeR, on 16 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

FE/SFE 2100
LFE 2500
XLFE 2650
XXLFE 2720

What time scale?

TL:DR

i thought i read that the light fusions were liek 3080 or something if they are already around then get them in the game!

[Mawai]

Carrie Harder, on 16 September 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

The XL conundrum should've been tackled before the assorted weapon nerfs (especially the heat ones) went into play.

They started from TT but haven't implemented engine critical hits so this is what you get.

An engine requires 3 critical hits to destroy. This can be accomplished in MWO by killing the CT, the L or R T of an IS XL, or both R+L T of a clan mech.

If engine critical hits were in the game ... it becomes possible to kill a mech without destroying any torso sections ... a critical hit in each section would kill the mech.

Of course, engine criticals or any other system criticals (gyro, life support) would require a better balancing of the critical system. TT had fire every 10s ... so at the very least critical % should be scaled down since the rate of fire is so much higher in MWO.

[EboneezeeR]

Metus regem, on 16 September 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

As a clan player I appreciate that, but as a clan player, I think it's very odd, that omni mechs are less customisable then the IS mechs, that have a record of needing massive, expensive and time intensive overhauls. Something like going to an Endo S. Chassis should cost a lot more than it does... last time I look at it on a Dragon 1C it was something like 600,000 C-bills, that's about 1/7th of the mech's cost.

KGC-000 fully armed costs 10kk C-Bill's. LORE (c)
Clans are cost more, cause they are Crans. LORE (c)

TL:DR

[Russ Bullock]

Carrie Harder, on 16 September 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

The XL conundrum should've been tackled before the assorted weapon nerfs (especially the heat ones) went into play.

That is fair, but here we are so I guess were going to have to work at it as best we can.