16 replies to this topic

[Verkhne]

I created this build as sort of a Clan variant of a fairly standard Atlas loadout. It just doesn't seem to work for me... I do better with 3erLL and a Gauss or multiple erLL.

I am not sure if its a learning curve issue, or just too busy of a loadout??



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...72c0fced19292dd

[Seeker Kirov]

The Warhawk doesn't have much business mixing it up at close range. It is much more of a second line striker. The chassis has a limited set of advantages, but a good build can really play to those perks and make the Warhawk a great 'Mech.

It has decent speed so it can play the fire brigade and move to help other friendlies apply pressure where needed.
It has decent torso movement so it can roll damage around well.
It comes with a lot of hard-wired DHS so it prefers to run hot setups. This is further encouraged by having more energy mounts in the arm.
The B variant will absolutely ruin someone's day if you build it for LRM-tossing.
Most pilots have learned to tell the difference between a Warhawk and a Dire Wolf at distance, so mercifully Warhawk pilots no longer attract the incredibly violent focus fires that Dire pilots are regularly subjected to.

If you really want to stick close to your build, I would shed some (if not all) of the SRMs and add some lasers. My WHK-A is 2LPL, 2MPL, 1 Gauss. It does very well with my style.

When you're dropping in your Warhawk, don't take point. Pick a friendly Assault and try to stay behind, and to the side of him. You can type it out too. "Hey Dire Wolf, I've got your six for this match." If he's half-decent, he'll know that having you as his back-up will give him that extra advantage in a fight. Confidence is crucial for front-line Assault pilots. Stick to your buddy. Don't let him face any threat alone. If the match goes poorly, oh well, you go down fighting as a team. If it goes well, then the Warhawk really shines. In that phase of the match where the enemy team has taken some casualties and has shed a good portion of their armor trading shots with your teammates... oh man, the Warhawk becomes a nigthmare. 85 tons of energy weapons on a 'Mech moving at 64kph, with a very agile torso, suddenly taken off the leash and allowed to chase down all those weakened Red Team scum? That's the trick though. The Warhawk needs that momentum before you can see it performing at it's best.

Edited by August Immanuel, 16 September 2014 - 06:16 PM.

[Temptis]

think about it, 2 ERLL and a Gauss can be fielded with about any chassis out there.

[Crotch RockIt]

I run a similar build, except it loses the Gauss for 2 more ERLL, and the SRM's are upgraded to Artemis. I use the 4 ERLL during the initial long range engagements, and the SRM's come into play during the mid and late game brawls. It's my second favorite Warhawk build, behind my 4x LRM15, 4x ERML, TAG lurm boat.

[The Great Unwashed]

I enjoy running with 4 large pulse lasers including all modules. Quite heat resistant.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 17 September 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[Zordicron]

Dont brawl it out in warhawk.

Seriously, best range is like 600-800M, as you move/strafe behind your brawler line and pummel enemy with direct fire.

Of course, this is under the assumption you can aim weapons well at that range. As you have a guass I presume you are a decent shot. I would dump the SRM. I made a MEGAALPHA short range loadout on one of my warhawks, and it was devestating to smaller stuff, but it overheated and got wrecked by assault enemies. So while it can be fun and occasionally wreck half the enemy team, more often it is mediocre and enemy DWF/Atlas fodder.

A longer range direct fire support role is consistently effective. You cant lead the team. You need to follow. Best bet is see where the Atlas is going, and hang back and match speed by 300M. Then when fighting looks to be starting, find a strafe angle/movement line where you can run and gun from outside IS brawl weapon range. You will do a lot of dmg and survive well when streaks and SRM and AC20's are out of the picture. Your success is then based on how well you place shots vs the enemy you are fireing on. If you are good, you will wreck it. if you are mediocre, it will show and you will die a flaming death by heavy/medium brawlers often.

Warhawk has no crutch loadouts, and doesnt even really make good use of most crutch weapons. IMO this is why the tryhards do not like it much.

[Tahribator]

I don't own a Warhawk, but:

August Immanuel, on 16 September 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

It has decent speed so it can play the fire brigade and move to help other friendlies apply pressure where needed.
It has decent torso movement so it can roll damage around well.
It comes with a lot of hard-wired DHS so it prefers to run hot setups. This is further encouraged by having more energy mounts in the arm.

aren't these pretty much the baseline requirements for brawlers? Decent speeds, decent hitboxes, heat efficiency and having a good mix of E/B/M which the Warhawk provides.

If I was going to buy a Clan Assault at the moment, I'd definitely look at the Warhawk instead of the Dire, purely because of its brawling potential(I love brawling). Though, apart from the lack of arm actuators(which is what's putting me off), and having to do an ammo side, it's pretty much looking like the perfect brawler. In Smurfy's I can easily create mouthwatering builds capable of dumping so much damage in such a little time, yet, 99% of the Warhawks I see are pure LRM boats and seemingly a waste of potential.

Can a decent Warhawk pilot care to explain why I see brawler Warhawks so rarely?

Edited by Tahribator, 18 September 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Seeker Kirov]

Tahribator, on 18 September 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

Can a decent Warhawk pilot care to explain why I see brawler Warhawks so rarely?

Arm actuators are a big problem. And while the torso does twist well, the 'Mech itself is not quick to accelerate, stop, or turn. It's not that you can't build a brawling Warhawk, it's just that the hardpoints and locked DHSs lend the Warhawk to providing a steady stream of energy weapon fire. The other hindrance to brawling is that it carries a large percentage of its firepower in the arms. This leaves it with the same problem as the Nova - if you can take off an arm, you can severely cripple a Warhawk. I view the Warhawk as a Tiger tank. Great firepower, good armor, agile - but not fast and easily overwhelmed.

[Soul Tribunal]

Tahribator, on 18 September 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

I don't own a Warhawk, but:



aren't these pretty much the baseline requirements for brawlers? Decent speeds, decent hitboxes, heat efficiency and having a good mix of E/B/M which the Warhawk provides.

If I was going to buy a Clan Assault at the moment, I'd definitely look at the Warhawk instead of the Dire, purely because of its brawling potential(I love brawling). Though, apart from the lack of arm actuators(which is what's putting me off), and having to do an ammo side, it's pretty much looking like the perfect brawler. In Smurfy's I can easily create mouthwatering builds capable of dumping so much damage in such a little time, yet, 99% of the Warhawks I see are pure LRM boats and seemingly a waste of potential.

Can a decent Warhawk pilot care to explain why I see brawler Warhawks so rarely?

I will admit I did at first attempt to brawl with my Warhawks (I'm not sure if I qualify for decent Pilot, I do win more than I lose in it though) and I found it was not the same as my DW for staying power because most of the times you're in a fight it is not 1 v 1. So the thinner armor and ability to have an arm loss take out so much firepower has been the issue for me.
Thus I make my builds for them two stage. I have 2 Good sized packs of LRM's to provide the initial softening up of the enemy forces, and if we get good locks from the team this amplifies my damage. Then I have ERML's and AC's loaded to eventually break holes in what is remaining after the steel rain comes down. Thus far this has worked much better for me than my close range only builds. Since, we cannot chose what map we get landed on, I find this works better as an overall strategy. And at least while I am ponderously closing the distance on Alpine peaks, I can rain down damage I am helping my team.

-ST

[Voivode]

Here's what I've done with my Warhawk Prime. It's successful at long range and successful at close, but it excels most at the midrange fight. The Warhawk has A LOT of fixed heat sinks, which is both an advantage and disadvantage. Powerful energy weapons or a good punch of LRMs supported by a single ballistic is the name of the game.

[Seeker Kirov]

Voivode, on 18 September 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Here's what I've done with my Warhawk Prime. It's successful at long range and successful at close, but it excels most at the midrange fight. The Warhawk has A LOT of fixed heat sinks, which is both an advantage and disadvantage. Powerful energy weapons or a good punch of LRMs supported by a single ballistic is the name of the game.

How do you have your weapon groups set up?

[Voivode]

August Immanuel, on 18 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

How do you have your weapon groups set up?

The LBX-5 is by itself, the ERLLs are paired, the ERPPC's are paired, I have a second group for the ERPPCs where they are set to chain fire so they can be used individually as well. I didn't find it useful to chain fire the ERLLs since their combined heat isn't much with that many DHS and I'm already at 4 weapon groups. Most of the time I don't find myself chain firing the ERPPCs, either, though once in a while in a pitched fight it is useful.

[Seeker Kirov]

Voivode, on 18 September 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

The LBX-5 is by itself, the ERLLs are paired, the ERPPC's are paired, I have a second group for the ERPPCs where they are set to chain fire so they can be used individually as well. I didn't find it useful to chain fire the ERLLs since their combined heat isn't much with that many DHS and I'm already at 4 weapon groups. Most of the time I don't find myself chain firing the ERPPCs, either, though once in a while in a pitched fight it is useful.

Minor suggestion, but swap it to where you have both ERLL in the same arm, that way when you fire both you can do it half-peeking out of cover.

[Voivode]

August Immanuel, on 18 September 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Minor suggestion, but swap it to where you have both ERLL in the same arm, that way when you fire both you can do it half-peeking out of cover.

That would require me splitting up the ERPPCs, and I'd rather use those in those "peek and shoot" moments than the ERLL since they require less stare time.

[The Great Unwashed]

What does your LBX5 fire?

[Ultimax]

Verkhne, on 16 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I created this build as sort of a Clan variant of a fairly standard Atlas loadout. It just doesn't seem to work for me... I do better with 3erLL and a Gauss or multiple erLL.

I am not sure if its a learning curve issue, or just too busy of a loadout??



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...72c0fced19292dd

IMO:

1) You don't need 4 tons of gauss ammo. 3 is enough.
2) Due to how clan CERLLAS function, you really don't want to be in range for your SRMs too often. That's a lot of tonnage for "back up weapons.


Here are three variants of a similar build design, with no SRMs. Try them out, take your pick.

1) WHK-Prime I - My consistent best WHK build in group queue.

Even if you get sawed in half, you have a 25 point alpha at 450-500m range. Which is your sweet spot.

2) WHK-Prime II - Long range variant, excels at 600+

3) WHK-Prime III - A new version I've been toying with in the solo PUG queue. Brings AMS & Active probe to help PUG teams (they need it).

[ImperialKnight]

This is my WHK SRM Brawler. If you want to go brawl, forget the Gauss and ER Larges, you can't use their range advantage while brawling anyway

As a rule of thumb, you always want artemis with SRM6s to reduce the spread of the missiles.

Verkhne, on 16 September 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I created this build as sort of a Clan variant of a fairly standard Atlas loadout. It just doesn't seem to work for me... I do better with 3erLL and a Gauss or multiple erLL.

I am not sure if its a learning curve issue, or just too busy of a loadout??



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...72c0fced19292dd