59 replies to this topic

[dario03]

So something that I have seen Russ post a few times recently but not seen discussed recently is Clan XL nerfs. Right now the Clan XL engines are just flat out better than the IS XL engines so there has been discussions on things to have happen when a side torso is destroyed on a Clan XL engine. Thing is anything besides death will still make the Clan XL be better so i think we need something else.

I was thinking we should have Clan XL engines have guaranteed engine crit loss at certain damage levels. Something like get a side torso internals down to dark orange or light red and lose a crit, center torso lose a crit at dark orange and at dark red lose two. That way since it takes 3 crits to destroy a engine a Clan mech can still lose a side torso and live but on the down side you could also die without losing a torso. This would make the Clan XL have negatives and positives compared to a IS XL. The exact level of guaranteed crit loss is of course open to change but going with my example you would have something like.

3 torsos at red = death
2 sides at red = alive
1 side at red and center at dark red = death
2 sides at light orange and CT at dark red = alive
and of course 2 sides destroyed or center destroyed still equals death

What do you guys think of that?

And what other ideas do you have for Clan XL? I'm more so looking for ideas that aren't directly related to losing a side torso though.

[hutzlibu]

Too complicated I guess.
I'd prefer someting like speed reduction and maybe longer weapon recycle.

[Johnny Z]

12 mill cred module for IS mechs to not go boom on side torso loss. Takes up an important mech slot, the tech is out there so its not impossible some highly modified and expensive IS mechs may have it etc.

On top Clan and IS both act as if a leg is lost on the side of the destroyed side torso in the case the IS mech does have the engine crit module or what ever it would be called. This is, I am assuming fairly easy for them to get in game and makes sense, adding some more depth to the system.

Any changes in heat could be tuned to further even the playing field one way or the other.

[Felbombling]

PGI is balancing Clan Tech without forcing the 10 heat rule from TT for a Clan XL engine side torso destruction. That would be a good start right there. Think about that... that is 1/2 the heat sink output for a Mech without extra heat sinks... and it is significant.

[Hades Trooper]

one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard.

Once clans get stuck with only other clan mechs then these issues you bring up are going to go away. Each side of the struggle has it's strengths and weakness.

IS mechs aren't forced to have XL engines, it's there choice, If they want to use XL engines thats there issues, don't be trying to nerf my clan mechs even more unless you plan on allowing me to remove JJ, exchange FF for endo and change my engine size or even to standard engines.

If you think clan XL engines need to be nerfed then why even bother plan clans, where all gonna just be IS mechs with different skins soon the way you whingers are going

[Archon]

No. Clan mechs have to use XL engines. I can understand losing one ST affecting your mechs heat dissipation and speed but that's it.

[Ghogiel]

Even just taking a 20% speed reduction at losing a side on clan XLs would be a pretty huge nerf to the clans staples. The TBRs and SCRs would be hanging out to dry a bit more than they are...

[Khobai]

Quote

one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard.

except thats exactly what happens in battletech.

when a clan mech loses a side torso its +10 heat

[Hades Trooper]

Khobai, on 16 September 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

except thats exactly what happens in battletech.

when a clan mech loses a side torso its +10 heat

side torso causing extra heat i could handle, the OP was just dumb

[DocBach]

+10 heat would equate to a loss of 2 movement points -- how about losing a side torso makes your mech go slower?

[Foksuh]

It would certainly add something new to the gameplay, something to take into consideration. Losing an arm and side-torso is bad but many clan-mechs can still put up quite a fight with the other remaining.

Then again, seeing how the weapon balancing is going, I don't think the heat thing is gonna happen and speed change seems unlikely too, but I think it'd be a "fair" exchange compared to just insta-death like with IS mechs.

[RedDragon]

+10 heat. But that may not be enough since losing your side torso in most cases means losing half your weapons, thus less heat generated. A really useful addition would be engine criticals. That way Clan mechs have a high chance of getting critted and producing more heat when their armor is breached on the side torsos.

[KrEniM MinErK]

Easy:
Side torso down = -3 DHS

[EvilCow]

Lower speed and heat worked well in MW2. I don't think there is a better solution. You are losing part of your engine after all.

[Joseph Mallan]

DocBach's Suggestion is much more inline with TT and Canon.

1 Engine hit -15-20% speed
2 Engine hits -25-40% speed

And not just for Clanners. IS XLs are more fragile so should also have this added.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.

[dario03]

RedDragon, on 17 September 2014 - 02:54 AM, said:

+10 heat. But that may not be enough since losing your side torso in most cases means losing half your weapons, thus less heat generated. A really useful addition would be engine criticals. That way Clan mechs have a high chance of getting critted and producing more heat when their armor is breached on the side torsos.

Yeah that is what I'm saying. Russ has already said that they are looking at changing Clan XL. What a lot of people don't seem to understand (which is weird since its what this thread was about) is making the loss of a side torso do anything short of death is flat out better than death. Lose a side torso and lose even 50% speed and 3 DHS is still better than death.
What I'm suggesting is something that makes Clan XL better than IS XL in some ways and worse in others. You know...balance... without being the exact same thing. And if people think that is to much when combined with the clan customization limits then they can suggest changing those limits as well or unnerf the weapons if they think it is needed.

Edited by dario03, 17 September 2014 - 01:11 PM.

[Christof Romulus]

Okay I've got it, let's make this fair:

SIde torso goes out, mech explodes.

No? Too much? Balance is hard. =(

[dario03]

Christof Romulus, on 17 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Okay I've got it, let's make this fair:

SIde torso goes out, mech explodes.

No? Too much? Balance is hard. =(

Balance is hard, well we could actually just make it so that clan xl kills the mech when a side torso blows up but then it would just be the same as a IS xl.

[Hades Trooper]

So then when are we going to allow Clan mechs standard engines or change there engine size.

No other versions of mechwarrior have i not been able to change engine size or type or move heatsinks and change out stupid FF for endo.

Oh wait up there the balances for clans vs IS but hey you IS pilots still can't whinge enough.

If you can't handle using an XL engine and dieing cause you took 3 engine crits, then lets just completely change the game to suit you, i mean like it's not like you can just use a standard engine now and if it's not fast enough make it bigger no.


you have to have the equal power of clans, YOUR FRIGGIN IS DEAL WITH IT.

this constant whinge just shows how much of a pathetic bunch the IS is. cry cry whinge whinge, kick up and make a fuss till you get your way. OMG it's just so bogus. Learn how to kill clans, i have but you don't see me whinging that u need to make them weaker.

The simple solution is to make it 10vs12 and leave the clans alone. Or we can just nerf the hell even more out of the clans, like they haven't already and just whinge our way to victory.

clan AC suck, Clan lrms suck, clans are stuck at set speeds, clans can't move heatsinks or change out for more optimsied build ie Endo instead of Ferro.

All i see this as is a whinge to have the best of everything and have completely walk over enemy. So what if clans have xl engines that let them live if a side torso get blown off, all you need is 1 more engine crit from the CT or side torso it's dead.

It's not that hard and if you say otherwise than you either blind dumb and but obviously not mute since your still whinging.

If there clans are gonna be penlised so badly for xl engines and crap weapons for the sake of balance then allow them to change there engine sizes and swap FF for endo and remove locked in heatsinks and JJ they don't need.

IS is just becoming the biggest bunch of whingers in a game i've seen in ages across any game.


Act like warriors not crying children for FLICK SAKE

[Brody319]

They are already working on a nerf. They will lose heat sinks when they lose side torsos. in the engine rather than just the ones in the torso themselves.

I've also heard that in the tabletop or the books when a mech loses both side torsos it dies. might be something they could use, but to be honest most clan mechs are already dead if they lose both side torsos.

Edited by Brody319, 24 September 2014 - 08:07 PM.