28 replies to this topic

[FREDtheDEAD]

12 games, 12 losses, 10 highest damage scores in losing team. Frustration. No fun.

Matchmaker suckage since early closed beta has been a recipe for extreme angst.

Matchmaker doesn't work. Whatever your algorithms are, they don't work, PGI. Not even a tiny bit. The matchmaker that was entirely random was no worse than the ELO system currently being run when it comes to stomps. Actually, going up against a team with 6 Atlases was (back when teams were 8 a side), if nothing else, memorable.

If you picked PUG players at random, then sorted them into balanced teams once the full 12 had been grabbed, the connection time would be 90% faster and the matches would be fairer. Instead your algorithm tries to match pairs of players without taking into account the overall team. It can't work. And PUG games don't factor in ECM into the balance. Nothing stops one side in a PUG match from having LRM boats and ECM mechs while the other side has none of either - the side with ECM and LRMs will win. Rock, paper, scissors gaming.

Group play in private matches is somewhat different but until it's easier to join a group, 75% of the player base will stay in public PUG games.

Edited by Xajorkith, 19 September 2014 - 03:53 AM.

[Sarlic]

I noticed more new players then before. I got struck last week with 20 losses and only about 3-4 wins. But then again; i saw alot of stock mechs.

Sometimes you get really good matches. Sometimes you just get a lose streak.

Edited by Sarlic, 19 September 2014 - 03:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Take a break man. Its not your day to play the game.

[KharnZor]

Hit me up with a friend request OP

[Mercules]

You are playing at a time when very few other players are likely on. The MM is less garbage when it actually has something to work with.

[p4r4g0n]

If you already have a problem getting decent match ups with a single global server, guess what happens when you have a regional one and not all the players in your region opt to play on the regional server?

[Mawai]

Loss streaks are frustrating. They happen quite frequently too .. but in my experience the issue isn't usually the matchmaker ... it is the teamwork.

One person can't carry a team of twelve no matter how good they are.

I usually recite the mantra "regroup, stick together and focus fire" at the start of every match. Due to the anniversary contests there are probably a lot more folks playing right now who do not play regularly ... they are FAR more likely to wander off and do their own thing ... or to just follow their lance as it wanders off and does its own thing. The result will usually be far more stomps .. one way or another.

Often I can get a good idea if my side has a decent chance of winning within the first minute. Lack of cohesiveness ... lack of movement ... no communication ... "scouts" far out-running their support ... are all negative factors. Moving to get together, some folks talking on coms, scouts leading to a rendezvous point ... these show an awareness of what the team mates are doing and what each player is doing. My guess can still be wrong .. if the opposing team is just as disorganized it can turn into an amazing random melee match ... if my team shows organization but the other team is more organized it can be a very strategic fight with no early losses until one side either fails to fall back or pushes too far. The point to this comment ... I can usually have a decent idea of whether my team has a chance without ANY idea of the individual capability of any team member ... teamwork is OP ... and it is teamwork and cohesiveness that usually win matches not the performance of any one player.

So .. matchmaker .. we all like to blame the matchmaker for a loss streak .. because no one has any idea w t f it is doing so if we are losing then it must be the matchmakers fault. Maybe ... no one knows except maybe PGI. If PGI has the records then they should be able to pull out the results for your 12 matches showing 12 losses in a row (no wins in there at all) and then take a look at the factors involved in team balance ...

Here is one factor that the matchmaker doesn't take into account ...

Loadouts and specific mech choices

-Keep in mind that the match maker balances on ELO and weight class. ECM can be a deciding factor. If you drive an ECM mech you already tip the balance by ensuring that YOUR side in every match will have at least one ECM. (Of course if the player runs an ECM sniper and doesn't stick with the group then that advantage is lost ... but that is a different story).

-If you take an LRM boat then your team is guaranteed some LRMs ... if ANY other team member has BAP/TAG/NARC/UAV this is a force multiplier.

-if you take the top end mech in any weight class (100, 75, 55, 35) and can drive it well then you give your team a slight advantage ... assuming that you have it fitted well and can use it effectively. On the other hand, if you bring a locust ... you might have fun but it is a bit of a detriment to the team as a whole on average. An awesome locust pilot will be better than bad Jenner pilot but the locust is much more vulnerable to a random accurate shot that either kills it or destroys a leg.

-effectiveness is a combination of pilot skill, build and your experience unlocks. The matchmaker DOES not factor in whether you have mastered a mech or not. speed tweak, doubled basics, extra module slot ... these all make a difference in the effectiveness of a mech. I typically find that I both lose more and die more when leveling up a mech than playing one I have mastered ... both due to getting used to the mech itself and the skill unlocks.


TLDR:

the matchmaker does NOT take into account

- mech selection
- load out
- skill tree unlocks

A player can bias their team toward losing by playing a poor mech with a bad build for which they have no skills



P.S. ... and this all assumes that there are enough players to even get close to making a balanced match ... though if the player population is low you should end up on the winning unevenly matched side about 1/2 the time.

Edited by Mawai, 19 September 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[Dracol]

Applying damage to the enemy is not the only way to help your team win. If no one on your team is watching the flanks/rear, attacking the entrenched LRM boats, or notifying where the ECM masked lance is, your team is going to have a bad time.

[Mercules]

My favorite is Terra Therma. I pipe in about:
Me: How are we going to approach this? Plan?
PuGger 1: Don't die.
Me: We might want to circle around and NOT go middle.
PuGger 2: We should go right.
Me: Okay how about everyone move right around the cone and avoid the middle. Deal?
I'll get several positive responses to that plan. Next thing I know I'm typing in, "Or I guess half of us could go mill around in the middle??????"



Bad games happen and they can end up in streaks, just like good games can.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Dunno.. but it cant be right when you land in a 4er lance with 3 Direwolves and Highlander (the first time you even play a DW - its not my taste of mech)..wasnt much more than a cleaning wave.

[SI The Joker]

Dude, go eat a Snickers.

[Flyby215]

I firmly believe the matchmaker is hellbent on making a 1-1 W/L ratio. There have been times when I dish out 600-800dmg and 3-5 kills each round and just can't lose.

There have been times when I dish out 600-800dmg and 3-5 kills but just can't win!

There's been times where I am deliberately playing a joke build and only deliver 10 dmg, but my team carries and wins 12-1. There have been times where I am in my finest mech dishing 1200+ and 7 kills but still lost 7-12.

Remember that winning streak you had with your teammates a few nights ago? Payback time.

Edited by Flyby215, 19 September 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[Project_Mercy]

Flyby215, on 19 September 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I firmly believe the matchmaker is hellbent on making a 1-1 W/L ratio.

This. While I have no facts in this, subjectively I feel the MM doesn't try to match people of a consistent ELO, it takes everyones ELO and tries to zero sum the teams. Even in US Primetime, there are times when you see people with large ELO that end up down in a low bracket, because the game is convinced that some LORD or NGNG person can somehow make up for 2 AFK Atlases and a teamkiller.

[Cion]

The frustrating thing is not losing, but losing so many in a row.

I suggest let the matchmaker track your last 4 consecutive games. If you have 4 loses in a row the MM should artificially and temporarily lower your ELO to facilitate you a win. Once a win is achieved bump it back to normal.

Don't do this for high competitive top elo brackets. For us mere mortals it will make the game fun and not frustrating.

Edit: spelling due to phone autocorrect

Edited by Cion, 19 September 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Riverboat Sam]

I agree. I noticed a shift in the play balance the weekend of the Kill a Dev challenge. I thought they had turned off matchmaker or something. I mean, every match was a stomp. Either win or loose, every match was 12/3 or worse. I was in a 12/0 loss that took only 1:59. Just under two minutes. One of our team summed it up with the comment, "WTF?"

Since then I've noticed that matches are sometimes fairly balanced, but about half the time are stomps.

For my part, since I PUG only, I've just given up worrying about winning or loosing. I just try to do better personally (more damage, kills, assists) than my average. It keeps things fun, though I do miss the XP you get for a win as compared to a loss. Perhaps they could tone that difference down a bit?

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Enlil09, on 19 September 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

I agree. I noticed a shift in the play balance the weekend of the Kill a Dev challenge. I thought they had turned off matchmaker or something. I mean, every match was a stomp. Either win or loose, every match was 12/3 or worse. I was in a 12/0 loss that took only 1:59. Just under two minutes. One of our team summed it up with the comment, "WTF?"

Since then I've noticed that matches are sometimes fairly balanced, but about half the time are stomps.

For my part, since I PUG only, I've just given up worrying about winning or loosing. I just try to do better personally (more damage, kills, assists) than my average. It keeps things fun, though I do miss the XP you get for a win as compared to a loss. Perhaps they could tone that difference down a bit?

Totally agree. Stopped lookiing on W/L rating long time ago, only K/D. W/L is too random.
And on Kill a Dev weekend my K/D dropped from 1.67 to 1.58, and at large overall numbers it's a real disaster))) That was 80% stomp games, and I wasn't lucky to get to the stomping side. And frankly, it's not that funny even to get there.
Though I've seen several stomps, where my team wasn't bad, just made some bad mistake or was cunningly outplayed by the enemy's teamwork. In such cases I always say GG, even if my team lost like 3/12.

[Cranky Poed]

Its the PUG life....some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you.

[Glythe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Elo works just fine for chess but not for online games.

Keep tabs on the worst 15-25% of players and the highest 15-25% of players. Make sure the teams are fairly balanced with the good and the bad and let the middle be randomly assorted.

Everyone will play more games with less waiting. That means as the number of games played reaches infinity (more rapidly) the match maker is more likely to simulate truly random encounters and the game will be more fair to everyone.

[Riverboat Sam]

Cranky Poed, on 19 September 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Its the PUG life....some days you get the bear and some days the bear gets you.

Or, more like, sometimes you get the beer and sometimes the beer gets you. 8-P

[KraftySOT]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Thats all I heard.

Get better?