56 replies to this topic

[Jonathan Paine]

Dear community. How many of us support bringing back collision damage and knock downs? Perhaps even Death From Above?

[El Bandito]

inb4 Goons troll Paul video.

IMO, Knockdown in this game should only happen if there is a successful DFA by mechs that weigh 50 tons or above. Mechs lighter than 50 tons should only deal damage when landing on top of another mech, due to the ease which they can pull off the maneuvre.

Fall speed must also be calculated for the DFA since it is harder for an assault mech to rise that high. A 50 ton Nova should require far higher fall speed for a successful DFA than a 90 ton Highlander, for example.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 September 2014 - 02:53 AM.

[ArchSight]

I really want to crush mechs like soda cans. Pretty please.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Let's not and say we did until after we get a functional CW and more maps and reasons.

Also once it is coded properly so a freaking Jenner can not take down an Atlas...man i dont miss those days....although now days it would be nice that way when the light is leg humpping me i can just push them over and shoot...

[MeiSooHaityu]

I always point too dragon bowling whenever this comes up .



Reall if done right it would be nice to have back in, but the Paul trolling video also shows that it can be abused. It just isn't fun when a small group of mechs keeps you stuck in a continuous fall and get up animation without being able to fire till your destroyed.

I might like a better collision damage system instead.

[Vassago Rain]

No, thanks.

[Quxudica]

Jonathan Paine, on 23 September 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Dear community. How many of us support bringing back collision damage and knock downs? Perhaps even Death From Above?

Knockdowns, as they existed before, were an absolutely awful mechanic, and that's ignoring the fact they were a buggy mess. It's supposed to reward good piloting but it often did the opposite, a bad pilot form their team or your own team bumped into you and knocked you down and let everyone around you get a free kill (often a team kill given that mechs warped around while down and you could never tell which one you were actually shooting).

Even if the bugs weren't there though, it just didn't work. You should never want to run into a mech, you should never want to run into anything.

This is a case of a realistic concept not making for good gameplay.

[cranect]

I would like to have DFA

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Collisions, yes; DFA, yes; knockdowns, no.

[White Bear 84]

MeiSooHaityu, on 23 September 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

I always point too dragon bowling whenever this comes up .

Ahh look at that nice slow movement in the mechs.. ..did not approve of the speed up when it came out..

[Solomon Ward]

El Bandito, on 23 September 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

inb4 Goons troll Paul video.

IMO, Knockdown in this game should only happen if there is a successful DFA by mechs that weigh 50 tons or above.  Mechs lighter than 50 tons should only deal damage when landing on top of another mech, due to the ease which they can pull off the maneuvre.

Fall speed must also be calculated for the DFA since it is harder for an assault mech to rise that high.  A 50 ton Nova should require far higher fall speed for a successful DFA than a 90 Highlander, for example.

Love this.I don´t want Dragonbowling back but i love the idea of Death from above causing a knockdown.I desperately want DFA implemented (and melee down the road).

[oneproduct]

DFA sounds fun until it happens to you and you go from 100% HP to dead. Someone will make a lance of all fast moving mechs with JJ that stands out of sight at the top of some ledge that's fairly high traffic and wait till they see you on seismic sensors. Then four mechs will all try to DFA you at the same time. Plus, just imagine how much worse canyon network would become for mechs without jumpjets. DFA would be even worse than getting headshotted by artillery/air strikes.

Knockdowns are terrible just as most things that remove control of your character are considered to be unfun in games. It's worse here because it's generally more exploitable because we didn't build the game mechanics to work around these features (e.g. in fighting games you generally can't attack characters that have been knocked down).

And because I see someone commenting on how Jenners shouldn't be able to knock people down, that's simply not how physics works. I did the math in another thread about this, but it boils down to light mechs running at speeds like 150 km/h impact with far more force than larger mechs that move slower. So IF there were knockdowns then yes, maybe the light mechs would take more damage from a collision with a larger mech, but they easily have enough force to knock down assault mechs when running at speed. If a light mech is standing in front of you sure, knock it down. But if you get in the way of a mech moving 150 km/h, prepare to get run over. It goes both ways.

Someone tried to laugh off what I was claiming by saying it's like throwing a brick at a brick wall. But in reality it's like throwing a brick at a stack of 3 bricks. A Jenner's weight is not negligible compared to an Atlas. I'd rather get hit by an AC20 since it carries less force.

Edited by oneproduct, 23 September 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Willard Phule]

As much as I'd like to see collision damage put back in, even if it doesn't cause knockdown, it's impractical at this time....or, rather, it's impractical with the current matchmaker.

The problem you've got is that the current matchmaker has such a loose definition of skill levels that, at least in the solo queue, you get a LOT of newer players in each match that haven't learned how to unzoom when they move and end up shoving their teammates around.

I, for one, would REALLY hate to have my rear armor crushed by a new player in a Stalker or Atlas that simply ran into me at full blast. And, before you ask, that's how charges are handled as far as damage is concerned. Tonnage/10 X movement rate. An Assault can seriously crush you, even at 50 kph.

Now, personally, I'd just like to see a dynamic where collision damage can be caused ONLY by legs....for the sake of DFAs. Downside to that is that people will demand to have a "kick" function put in and I'm thinking that's completely beyond the Dev's ability to code at this time.

[Foksuh]

Personally I'd love to see them re-introduced but NOT in the form it existed before. They'd have to re-work the whole system, put in some sensible limitations regarding tonnage and speed and how it all works out so we wouldn't see the dragon bowling we used to. It shouldn't be something you can so easily abuse but it should definitely be in.

Better collisions, DFA and even knockdowns would add their own touch to the gameplay definitely. Not exactly a priority but wouldn't mind seeing it. Course you might as well throw in melee while at it. These mechs are supposed to throw punches too, right?

[Foksuh]

oneproduct, on 23 September 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

DFA sounds fun until it happens to you and you go from 100% HP to dead. Someone will make a lance of all fast moving mechs with JJ that stands out of sight at the top of some ledge that's fairly high traffic and wait till they see you on seismic sensors. Then four mechs will all try to DFA you at the same time. Plus, just imagine how much worse canyon network would become for mechs without jumpjets. DFA would be even worse than getting headshotted by artillery/air strikes. Knockdowns are terrible just as most things that remove control of your character are considered to be unfun in games. It's worse here because it's generally more exploitable because we didn't build the game mechanics to work around these features (e.g. in fighting games you generally can't attack characters that have been knocked down). And because I see someone commenting on how Jenners shouldn't be able to knock people down, that's simply not how physics works. I did the math in another thread about this, but it boils down to light mechs running at speeds like 150 km/h impact with far more force than larger mechs that move slower. So IF there were knockdowns then yes, maybe the light mechs would take more damage from a collision with a larger mech, but they easily have enough force to knock down assault mechs when running at speed. If a light mech is standing in front of you sure, knock it down. But if you get in the way of a mech moving 150 km/h, prepare to get run over. It goes both ways. Someone tried to laugh off what I was claiming by saying it's like throwing a brick at a brick wall. But in reality it's like throwing a brick at a stack of 3 bricks. A Jenner's weight is not negligible compared to an Atlas. I'd rather get hit by an AC20 since it carries less force.

Whoever thinks it's the brick vs brickwall scenario is being quite silly. I mean even if a truck collides with a sedan, both are still gonna suffer damage. Not comparable, but still damage.

That's the thing about the whole collision thing though, even though a fast moving light could knock down a heavier mech, the light will still receive damage too.
Would it be worth the damage? Who knows, that'd be very situational thing, but knocking down a bigger mech could definitely be a thing if timed correctly

[Viges]

The only possible option is to make it an option (enable) in private matches.

[B E E L Z E B U B]

im against knock downs. that mechanic was being abused too much.

[Prezimonto]

If knockdowns come back and are physics based, with fixed damage numbers across the spectrum... ie.. .20 damage hurts a light mech a LOT more than an assault mech... then YES PLEASE!

I know people hated dragon bowling, but honestly, the dragon is in a really sweet spot for collision/knockdown mechanics. Big, well armored, fast, relatively low weapon weight as a consequence, and no jump jets. It SHOULD be able to leverage collisions and knockdowns as part of its tool set.

That being said, what I'd like to see is mechs getting up in stages.
1st stage: knocked over: can not reliably fire... to get out of it, hit any directional button and wait the 0.5 to 1 second to get to stage 2
2nd stage: kneeling: can reliably fire and torso twist, but can not move legs, you're vulnerable, but not defenseless. To move to standing hit any movement key again... and wait another 0.5 to 1 second for the standing animation.

This splits the highly vulnerable period between a series, making it much harder for an enemy to troll you without you getting at least a shot and ruining their day.

That being said, knockdown mean you WILL have to accept some level of troll teams, but the split of solo and group queue greatly ameliorates this as a problem.

As a side option, the team could add an eject button for a mech... shift-F4 or something, for those times when you just want to call the match done. You stop earning bonuses, receive the mech death, but also end your time in the match yourself and instantly.

[UrsusMorologus]

I would like to get staggering from very very large kinetic hits. Then you could have knockdown if you are staggered while already staggering. That could be useful for something like stopping a light that keeps running in and out of range.

No knockdown from just one bump or anything

[Piney II]

No to knock downs and mech bowling.

No to DFA.