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Ecm Suggestion - Lose Benifits For A Few Seconds After Firing Weapons


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#1 Carnelian

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:59 AM

This should be a no-brainer. Let ECM protect only those who hold their fire. Any weapons fire should have the firer lose protection for a few seconds.

This could also be linked to heat generation instead but that might make things more complicated to balance.

#2 BerserX

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:06 AM

...NO! This is not a no-brainer. Weapons fire would only be detected by heat or some form of sonic detection. ECM affects radar, scrambling it and does not turn off when weapons are fired. ECM is still a protection against ridiculous LRM boaters. Do not take away that cover! - Not while AMS is stupidly useless. If you want to add a module to detect weapons fire within X meters, that's fine, but don't nerf ECM! Once the nerfing starts, it won't end.

#3 a gaijin

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 03:56 PM

Short answer:
No, bad idea (and I'm not an ECM user).


Long answer:
ECM is not 'temporarily turned off' when we fire our weapon systems in real life. There's no reason to have it affected in a game.

#4 Carnelian

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:15 AM

And what does "real life" have to do with a game in which projectiles travel at videogame speed and bullets go no more than 200 meters?

Are there any GAMEPLAY arguments against this idea?

#5 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:27 AM

What is your argument in favour of this idea? ("This is a no-brainer" is not an argument).

#6 Carnelian

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 02:19 AM

Fair enough.

I feel that the ECM module does too much (Protecting user, protecting teammates, jamming systems and comms of enemies, countering other ecm) for such a small investment (one ton) that simply artificially limiting it to a few select chassi does less for balance as it makes a slew of chassi (non-ecm ones) unnecessarily useless. Even with BAP and NARC countering some of the effects, it makes for a very black/white system of hard counters, where the team lacking in one is severly penalized.

In the best of worlds these functions would be split among a couple of different systems, each of which could theoretically be allowed on a broader range of chassi. (Never mind canon, as Battletech is a subpar game system to say the least.)

Failing that, ECM needs to be toned down, and my suggestion is one of the ways to accomplish that, that adds to the amount of player meaningful choices (the only thing truly worth considering in game design) to the game.

#7 BerserX

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 08:55 PM

ECM is fine. You're forgetting that there is a trade-off: do you want ECM, or different weapon systems? Mechs without ECM (i.e.: Cicada 3C have different weapon hardpoints that are coveted by other people more than ECM. ECM in MW4 was IMO better than it is in MWO. In MW4, everyone was lit up on radar as soon as they entered sensor range. ECM negated this until around 500 meters. MWO ECM pretty much just affects missile lock on times and close proximity sensor. Unless you've invested in sensor upgrades, you have trouble picking guys up on radar unless they're within like 900 meters AND stand out in the OPEN for a while. ECM just makes it where it takes longer to pick them up on radar at that range. IMO, it's long range benefit (short of the missile lock feature) are poor. If I'm running across an open field, they're still gonna' pick me up for missiles. It will just take a couple seconds longer.

ECM is fine where it is. It costs 1.5 tons (not 1 ton) - clearly you don't use it - and it takes up two slots. Not all mechs pack it, and the ones that do are more expensive and have different weapon placements. ECM mechs are only Meta mechs for competitive groups that boat them or string them throughout. I don't have a problem with my ECM delaying your LRM vomit.

#8 a gaijin

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:05 PM

View PostCarnelian, on 24 September 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

And what does "real life" have to do with a game in which projectiles travel at videogame speed and bullets go no more than 200 meters?
Are there any GAMEPLAY arguments against this idea?

See BerserX's intelligent reply :P

Also, I counter ECM by using BAP and sometimes carrying a PPC. You ever smash an ECM mech with a PPC? It helps ;)
And also hang with an ECM mech to counter the enemy ECM.

BerserX's right, ECM is fine the way it is.

#9 BerserX

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 11:46 AM

View PostHeroForHire, on 02 October 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

See BerserX's intelligent reply :P

Also, I counter ECM by using BAP and sometimes carrying a PPC. You ever smash an ECM mech with a PPC? It helps ;)
And also hang with an ECM mech to counter the enemy ECM.

BerserX's right, ECM is fine the way it is.


...Or two PPC's??? It's a one-two combo that wreaks havoc. Also, lights with ECM are overconfident. Use BAP and Streaks to rip them to shreds when they try to close. They usually don't see it coming. TAG also counters ECM. Use a TAG on your mech to paint ECM'ers or other targets through the ECM shield.

#10 a gaijin

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:03 PM

View PostBerserX, on 03 October 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:


...Or two PPC's??? It's a one-two combo that wreaks havoc. Also, lights with ECM are overconfident. Use BAP and Streaks to rip them to shreds when they try to close. They usually don't see it coming. TAG also counters ECM. Use a TAG on your mech to paint ECM'ers or other targets through the ECM shield.

Haha cool! :D All dual PPC builds run hot as hell though. Dual PPC hit at same time doesn't knock out ECM for 8 seconds, does it?
So if you have BAP and you are painting the ECM'er with TAG, that immediately knocks out its ECM, right?

So let's say you're running a streak build and can have one and only one laser weapon (cause TAG is taking up your only other slot), what would you choose?
I'm torn between the LPL (11.6 Dam, 9 heat, 3.25 sec recharge) and ERPPC (15 damage!!, 15 heat, 4 sec recharge).

#11 BerserX

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:41 PM

BAP will cancel ECM within about 180m. I learned this the hard way... *ouch

Fire the PPCs sequentially to keep the ECM down for maximum duration (it's hard to time/hit though)

ECM is useless in close proximity with a BAP user, and doubly when tagged or NARC'd.

I'd use the LPL. It's cooler, fires faster, and your mech (a Kintaro, right?) is so short ranged, it would be too diversified to throw the ERPPC on. Maybe a regular PPC? LPL is probably going to be your best choice, but the snap-shootability of a PPC is very desirable.

#12 Pragr

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 03:30 AM

Let me say I have no idea of mechwarrior lore or the background behind the game. So I know nothing about how the ECM should be working in the MW universe "officially". On the other hand I do have some knowledge of how ECM works in current aerial warfare.
The ECM itself is active electronic device transmitting high-frequency emissions to disturb enemy radar. By this way, it prevents the enemy lock on the target and gather relevant information (speed, altitude, accurate distance etc.). But on the other hand it makes the plane using ECM clearly visible on radar screen, because most radars are able to received the emissions from ECM. It's like "OK, I can't get no details, but there is something transmitting high-frequency singal". Usually the ECM transmission is checked at the distance way beyond the radar detection range.

Closer you get to the target covered by ECM, the higher is probability your radar will be able to "burn through" and gains a solid lock in spite of ECM disruption. For comparable state of art technology is impossible to make reasonable ECM which would disrupts the radar for all distance.

The other drawback of activated ECM in modern aerial combat is, that all radar guided missiles designed in eighties and newer can switch to the mode when the active ECM working as guiding beacon. So the radar guided missiles (active or semi-active) are then working in absolutely passive mode and the plane using the ECM has no indication that is targeted.

It would be very interesting to see the ECM working similar way in MWO.

According to all of this I never understand why or how could be the ECM in MWO working as protection against missiles, if it is active device and why the hell the missile in the year +3000 are not designed for such a stupidly easy task of guiding on active high-frequency signal beacon. Which technology is known since 1980' :)

Note: I use the ECM a much, since the mechs I played the most are Com-2D and Raven 3L.





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