349 replies to this topic

[TibsVT]

FearNotDeath, on 19 October 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

I do agree about when weight limits are put in game it may find a niche. Isn't the point of this thread to gauge where the gargoyle will be when released? If you don't like negative feelings towards it I don't know what to tell ya maybe get thicker skin.

I don't mind negative opinions. I, like most of us, don't like moronic opinions.

Edited by KelesK, 19 October 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Tesunie]

FearNotDeath, on 19 October 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

Who's trolling? I've never seen any of these claims of 80kph locusts destroying decent pilots in assault mechs and I've been playing since beta. I assumed I was being trolled by claims of an 80 kph assault mech being fast enough to stick on my side and not take fire back before it kills me.

I do agree about when weight limits are put in game it may find a niche. Isn't the point of this thread to gauge where the gargoyle will be when released? If you don't like negative feelings towards it I don't know what to tell ya maybe get thicker skin.

Actually... I have. I did it with a Locust with a Std 100 engine, 2 LRM5s, 2 SRM2s, 2 tons LRM ammo, 1 ton SRM ammo. Managed to stick in an Atlas's blind spot (he wasn't effectively tracking me, and was just turning to try and hit me. Should have slammed reverse and twisted in the opposite direction to catch me, maybe) and hit him with almost all of my SRM ammo. Someone else joined into the fight though, messed up the Atlas's routine as he concentrated on the other mech, and then I was unable to remain in his perfect blind spot after that and died. (Almost got him though!)

All I can do though is tell the tale. No video (which may have been hilarious to watch again but), sorry.

[Kain Demos]

Well it looks like the Pods are enough to give 8 energy hardpoints if you run the D and 7 if you run the prime. With the low weight but decent "stock" heat sinks I think laser boat is going to be the best thing to run here. I'll run what I will run on my Timberwolf C if we ever get another RT that has a laser hardpoint again:

2 x CLPL
5 x CERML

Only 17 tons....will probably just dedicate the rest of the weight to some more heat sinks. If there are numerous slots available in the CT it would be badass if both of the CLPLs could go there!

[Gyrok]

2 LPL + 4 ERML is a much cooler build to run...

[TibsVT]

Removing a ERML I would imagine it would be cooler.

[SoHxPaladin]

too big, no JJ, LPL and ERMED will be wasted on the mech on any terrain heavy map. low slung arms and broad shoulders beg for ERPPC ERLL and GAUSS crunch time on them. it will be an assault that skirmishes and ambushes. definately not a front liner. BUT, it will have a use. for those that see its availability, it will be glorious

[CyclonerM]

SoHxPaladin, on 24 October 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

definately not a front liner. BUT, it will have a use. for those that see its availability, it will be glorious

I actually see it potentially doing well on the frontlines. Sure, it is a big target. It may be as big if not bigger than an Atlas, with almost half the firepower. However, if the team does not have to wait for its assaults to follow, get to the front and lead the push, it can push much faster and potentially change the whole match.

I do not say it out of nowhere. I am doing right now Trinary training drops. Just one or two matches ago, we dropped in Crimson Strait. We saw them preparing a push in the saddle, but they waited too much (probably waiting for their assaults) so we turned back, set defensive positions and eventually won. After the match, me and a couple others agreed that we would find a good use for Gargoyles for such a push..

[Carthoo]

CyclonerM, on 25 October 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

I actually see it potentially doing well on the frontlines. Sure, it is a big target. It may be as big if not bigger than an Atlas, with almost half the firepower. However, if the team does not have to wait for its assaults to follow, get to the front and lead the push, it can push much faster and potentially change the whole match.

I do not say it out of nowhere. I am doing right now Trinary training drops. Just one or two matches ago, we dropped in Crimson Strait. We saw them preparing a push in the saddle, but they waited too much (probably waiting for their assaults) so we turned back, set defensive positions and eventually won. After the match, me and a couple others agreed that we would find a good use for Gargoyles for such a push..

Thats about the only advantage I can see in Gargoyle. Beeing there, pushing before enemy atlases, dire wolves arrive. Beeint there too late and pushing into DW/Atlas line....youre smoked.

[Kain Demos]

Gyrok, on 24 October 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

2 LPL + 4 ERML is a much cooler build to run...

For sure. I ran 5 on my TBR-C pre nerfs and knocked it down to 4 when and ditched the S RT when they added 1 heat to the CERML. With all the heatsinks on the Gargoyle I was going to at least try the 2/5 version again.

It would be nice to make a 2 CERPPC + something work but the tonnage just isn't there. I find that running two CERPPCs pretty much negates the use of any other energy weapons due to their extreme heat and the tonnage just isn't there to add a Gauss or UAC 10/LBX10.

Edited by Kain Thul, 26 October 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[SoHxPaladin]

CyclonerM, on 25 October 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

I actually see it potentially doing well on the frontlines. Sure, it is a big target. It may be as big if not bigger than an Atlas, with almost half the firepower. However, if the team does not have to wait for its assaults to follow, get to the front and lead the push, it can push much faster and potentially change the whole match.

I do not say it out of nowhere. I am doing right now Trinary training drops. Just one or two matches ago, we dropped in Crimson Strait. We saw them preparing a push in the saddle, but they waited too much (probably waiting for their assaults) so we turned back, set defensive positions and eventually won. After the match, me and a couple others agreed that we would find a good use for Gargoyles for such a push..

again, using it in such a way will be great and all, i was of the same opinion. BUT, people are still looking at this mech for it's brawling ability, being front line, with TBR armor values (or just a tad higher really) and having the same or less firepower. I see this, for the front line, as being more of a flank anchor or flank attacker than a face tanker that everyone is groping for.

and still, it has many more options than tanking....wondering why i hadnt opened my eyes to those options long ago....

[The Flying Gecko]

Not in a one-on-one fight

But in a team situation... just have to wait and see.

[Pariah Devalis]

I mean, given how effective an organized, team wide fast push into the enemy lines tends to be, I can see the Gargoyle being a good assault mech option just because it can keep up. However, at the same time I feel a close range oriented Warhawk could do the same job, given there is usually a regroup phase before a final push into the enemy, and the Warhawk can manage halfagain the firepower of the Gargoyle.

I still see the Gargoyle as being pigeonholed into an LB20X+ a smattering of ERMLas or being the Clan equivalent of a Wubshee. This is not to say it may not be effective in those roles, but it is just so limiting. People whine about the teeny tiny flamer that is hardwired into the Adder (unnecessarily I might add), but this thing has an engine four sizes too big bolted to it IMO.

[CyclonerM]

I have in mind several potential configurations, all pretty different. I have to think of some, considering that (do not hate me) i preordered my à la carte Gargoyles

Seriously, i could not wait until March (let alone save rough 75 millions to buy 3 of them )

However, i am grateful for your sharing of your Timber Wolf configs, but i am not going to tell any of you about what i am going to try

*Waits for the config simulator data to be available*
*Waits for the Gargoyle Prime sent directly from the Wolf Clan Site OZ-1*..

Edited by CyclonerM, 27 October 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Tesunie, on 15 October 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

And here we start to get situational and theoretical.
If Gargoyle stands in front of Direwolf, Gargoyle dies.
If Gargoyle is behind Direwolf, Direwolf dies.
If Direwolf is behind Gargoyle, Gargoyle dies faster.
If Gargoyle can attack from the side of Direwolf, and remain in it's side out of it's line of fire, Direwolf dies.
If Gargoyle can make better use of buildings to dodge damage and block return fire of Direwolf, Direwolf dies.

Location and situation dependent, sometimes more "dakka" isn't always best. Sometimes, speed is better served than more weapons would have been. (The Gargoyle may also be better served with more close range weapons than a Direwolf, as it can use it's increase in speed and it's armor to get in close easier, faster, better. A Direwolf tends to be better served with more longer ranged weapons, as it's slower and tends to engage more at range.)

It's going to come down to how the Gargoyle acts within the game (an unknown at this time), what builds are created and used (sorta unknown, but we can guess here), and how people use it/how they fit it into their playstyle.

I see the Gargoyle filling a niche role, where it can do well. However, I feel it's going to be a lesser used mech because it's going to benefit from a unique skill set not normally associated with assault mechs nor assault mech pilots. (Similar to the Dragon and Cicada mechs, and possible like most Battlemasters as well.)

and thats why our so fat and slow mechs like atlas and DW are the top in the rankins and the others not, I see your point. NOT. because your point is unrealistic and not reflecting the real dynamic of the battlfield. Your gargoyle has not even a TBR's firepower. the Direwolf will morelikely shred him, even if you come form the side, because you will very unlikely come from the sie and escape before he shoots at you. For this you are still too slow. then you eat a lot of damage compared to the direwolf. and in your city environment, your Direwolf just needs a short time of 0,7 seconds to deliver heavy damage to you. but your fast fatty won't be gone THAT fast.

you gargoyle is lower gunned than a TBR and will be fatter than a TBR but not dignifiantly more armored. That is what it will be and that is hardly giving him enough headsup for a Direwolf.
All his E weapons will be either in the arms or the CT, so they gonna be rather low hanging, which ensures everyone can get clear shots at his head making hitting the CT quite easy as well.

[Carthoo]

Lily from animove, on 27 October 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

and thats why our so fat and slow mechs like atlas and DW are the top in the rankins and the others not, I see your point. NOT. because your point is unrealistic and not reflecting the real dynamic of the battlfield. Your gargoyle has not even a TBR's firepower. the Direwolf will morelikely shred him, even if you come form the side, because you will very unlikely come from the sie and escape before he shoots at you. For this you are still too slow. then you eat a lot of damage compared to the direwolf. and in your city environment, your Direwolf just needs a short time of 0,7 seconds to deliver heavy damage to you. but your fast fatty won't be gone THAT fast.

I DO think that Gargoyle cant replace DW as king of the hill - but I DO think, that much better speed will be considerable advantage.

Daishi rules the field, coz players are nabs mostly.

Even fast med can shoot of DWs side torso fast enough - and without it, DW is only slow fat target with firepower of heavy mech...

[Grantham Besat]

So how will a Gargoyle fit into a 240 ton drop deck that has no 1/1/1/1 rule.

[CyclonerM]

Grantham Besat, on 29 October 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

So how will a Gargoyle fit into a 240 ton drop deck that has no 1/1/1/1 rule.

(25)Mist Lynx for ECM
(55) Stormcrow
(75)Timber Wolf
(80)Gargoyle

(30)Kit Fox for ECM
(55) Stormcrow
(70) Summoner
(80)Gargoyle

(35) Adder
(55) Ice Ferret
(65) Hellbringer
(80)Gargoyle

These are just considering 1/1/1/1 with 4'Mechs dropdecks. Personally i see more issues with fitting a Dire Wolf there..

Even with a 4 'Mechs requirement..
Kit Fox+Ice Ferret+Nova+Gargoyle..

Edited by CyclonerM, 29 October 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Verdic Mckenna]

Personally i'm putting my money on Ice Ferret's and Quad SRM 6 packs making people sweat at 141 KPH speed tweaked than I am the Gargoyle. Just sayin'. The Wave 2 Mechs are all specialty chassis' and my hope is that teams that focus on regimental tactics are going to make them seem far more powerful than they actually are in the solo queue.

Voivode, on 03 October 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Dire Wolves are pretty vulnerable to faster mech, I just don't know if an assault at 89.1 KPH with the Gargoyle pods is going to be the right combination of speed and firepower to make a DW pilot sweat.

Then again, I've been having a great time with my Yen-lo-wang running around at 91KPH, hammering DW pilots with a good ole IS AC/20 and moving on before they can turn to hit me. So maybe it could be, and then it becomes ironic that Gargoyle has "Goliath" written down the barrel of its gun when it's playing the role of David.

[CyclonerM]

Verdic Mckenna, on 29 October 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

teams that focus on regimental tactics

Wow! I did not know some teams praticed with 192men tactics

[Verdic Mckenna]

I stand corrected. Thanks for that. Might want to fix your "practiced" since we're being honest with one another. "Praticed" sounds like a fancy word for "prancing". lol I guess the proper term would be organized? Regiment tactics? 1.) organize according to a strict, sometimes oppressive system or pattern. I don't know. In any case - you know what i'm saying. =p

CyclonerM, on 29 October 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Wow! I did not know some teams praticed with 192men tactics

Edited by Verdic Mckenna, 29 October 2014 - 06:47 AM.