130 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 01 October 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

No reason to complain, just report.

He'd be the one getting reported, no?

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Lyoto Machida, on 01 October 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well, there's no real penalty for TK'ing. Up the penalty to 100,000 cbills for a TK death and 1,000 cbills for every point of TK damage and see how everyone's behavior changes...until then, accidental or othewise TKs are just a minor economic nuisance to the person who chalks one up.

Again...don't hate the player, hate the game. Last I checked, we didn't make this game or the rules behind it.

Best idea I've ever seen posted on this forum ^.

[meteorol]

Lyoto Machida, on 01 October 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Well, there's no real penalty for TK'ing. Up the penalty to 100,000 cbills for a TK death and 1,000 cbills for every point of TK damage and see how everyone's behavior changes...

It would change to guys running into the fireline of friendly mechs on purpose just to troll them and reduce their income. Pretty much the perfect griefing tool.

[Willard Phule]

meteorol, on 02 October 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

It would change to guys running into the fireline of friendly mechs on purpose just to troll them and reduce their income. Pretty much the perfect griefing tool.

Not to mention that with the HUGE difference in actual skill levels involved, especially in the solo queue, it's not exactly fair to New Players that don't realize they're doing something bad when they shoot their teammates in the back.

Still, as for the whole "walking in front of the Dire Wolf" thing, that pretty much applies to all friendlies. When you decide to shift your position, you have a choice...walk in front of them or walk behind them. If the path behind them is blocked, then perhaps you should rethink your choice. Walking in front of ANY friendly mech is your choice....if you take damage, you can't blame anyone but yourself. If you walk in front of a mech who's sustained firepower is enough to reduce you to scrap in mere moments, then chalk it up to "that was a REALLY bad decision."

I, for one, have a "three chances" rule when I play the game. It doesn't matter how many matches it takes to reach those three....but as soon as I've lifted fire for three people because they were stupid enough to walk in front of me, I'm done. If people continue to do it after I've been nice three times, then I just keep shooting....and telling myself that "perhaps they'll learn this time." They never do, but it is what it is. All hail the "no Elo" solo queue.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Willard Phule, on 02 October 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

Not to mention that with the HUGE difference in actual skill levels involved, especially in the solo queue, it's not exactly fair to New Players that don't realize they're doing something bad when they shoot their teammates in the back.

Still, as for the whole "walking in front of the Dire Wolf" thing, that pretty much applies to all friendlies. When you decide to shift your position, you have a choice...walk in front of them or walk behind them. If the path behind them is blocked, then perhaps you should rethink your choice. Walking in front of ANY friendly mech is your choice....if you take damage, you can't blame anyone but yourself. If you walk in front of a mech who's sustained firepower is enough to reduce you to scrap in mere moments, then chalk it up to "that was a REALLY bad decision."

I, for one, have a "three chances" rule when I play the game. It doesn't matter how many matches it takes to reach those three....but as soon as I've lifted fire for three people because they were stupid enough to walk in front of me, I'm done. If people continue to do it after I've been nice three times, then I just keep shooting....and telling myself that "perhaps they'll learn this time." They never do, but it is what it is. All hail the "no Elo" solo queue.

I think one of my most annoying situations like this was with this one yo-yo who cut in front of my twice after I had starting firing. I had lined up on a target and was half way through a 1.6 second C-ER LL pulse when he walks right into it with his Timber Wolf. I just clipped his arm before I managed to shift fire off him (and the target I was trying to kill). I then move to the right and line up on the target yet again and fire...only to have him again cut me off and walk right into my beam. Again I clip him and shift off though I am pretty thoroughly pissed by now. At this point I am like, "Ok what a arse" so I decide to swing wide away to his far left to put some distance between us so I can actually shoot at something and as I am walking away I starting taking fire from his direction. I turn and he is laying into me with full alphas and before I can even type "WTF!!!" he cores me. Seconds later his text comes up, "That is what you get for shooting me in the back". I was like YOU GOT TO BE FING KIDDING ME!!!

Edited by Viktor Drake, 02 October 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[Salticidae]

I would advise light pilots not to run in front of any direwolf

[Belorion]

Viktor Drake, on 02 October 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

I think one of my most annoying situations like this was with this one yo-yo who cut in front of my twice after I had starting firing. I had lined up on a target and was half way through a 1.6 second C-ER LL pulse when he walks right into it with his Timber Wolf. I just clipped his arm before I managed to shift fire off him (and the target I was trying to kill). I then move to the right and line up on the target yet again and fire...only to have him again cut me off and walk right into my beam. Again I clip him and shift off though I am pretty thoroughly pissed by now. At this point I am like, "Ok what a arse" so I decide to swing wide away to his far left to put some distance between us so I can actually shoot at something and as I am walking away I starting taking fire from his direction. I turn and he is laying into me with full alphas and before I can even type "WTF!!!" he cores me. Seconds later his text comes up, "That is what you get for shooting me in the back". I was like YOU GOT TO BE FING KIDDING ME!!!

There are definitely people who go both ways. I have seen plenty of people that will trundle up to your fireline, move in front of you to block your line of fire (probably to ensure they get the kill). I have also seen plenty of people core our friendlies, because all they care about is sending fire down toward the little red triangles without regard to who is in the way. If you are going to shoot past friendlies be darn sure you aren't going to hit them.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Lyoto Machida, on 01 October 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

He'd be the one getting reported, no?

Yeah, team killing is reportable. If someone shoots you in the back (as multiple people have stated they will freely do so in this thread) then you just report them.

[TYKONDEROGA]

Like the timing mechanism between the machine guns and prop on the Red Baron's Fokker I weave between friendly and enemy fire with impunity.

[Willard Phule]

Viktor Drake, on 02 October 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

I think one of my most annoying situations like this was with this one yo-yo who cut in front of my twice after I had starting firing. I had lined up on a target and was half way through a 1.6 second C-ER LL pulse when he walks right into it with his Timber Wolf. I just clipped his arm before I managed to shift fire off him (and the target I was trying to kill). I then move to the right and line up on the target yet again and fire...only to have him again cut me off and walk right into my beam. Again I clip him and shift off though I am pretty thoroughly pissed by now. At this point I am like, "Ok what a arse" so I decide to swing wide away to his far left to put some distance between us so I can actually shoot at something and as I am walking away I starting taking fire from his direction. I turn and he is laying into me with full alphas and before I can even type "WTF!!!" he cores me. Seconds later his text comes up, "That is what you get for shooting me in the back". I was like YOU GOT TO BE FING KIDDING ME!!!

It's the "OOH, OOH, MINE!" syndrome you see in the solo queue.

Part of it is the whole "this isn't really a team...if all I do is support the people up front, I won't make any money...besides, these idiots are all stupid anyway" attitude that is so prevalent there. And that's one of those "chicken and the egg" things.....which came first, the attitude or the way the matches are played. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter which came first...they feed each other. Hell, I'm as guilty of it as the next guy since I only play in the solo queue. It is what it is.

I'm sure every armchair general/human resources manager on these forums are about to tell us the one problem that would fix it all....but, it's way more complicated than that. Even figuring out a way to allow a team to communicate with each other easier....some sort of communications tree or VOIP isn't going to fix it.

All that will do is allow people on the same team that speak the appropriate language at any given time the opportunity to group up with like minded people to form a more informed and directed unit. It's not going to make "teamwork" happen as if someone waved a magic wand at them and said "thou art trained" and the solo queue is going to have similar gameplay to the group queue. Real "teams" get together and practice, practice, practice. When they're not playing together (which in a lot of cases is never), they come into the solo queue and either wipe up the floor with the other team or get mad and blame "those noobs" for losing the match for them. It happens.

The other, LARGEST, problem is this whole Elo/Matchmaker thing. Again, chicken and egg. They both feed into the problem. The Matchmaker predicts (ie: chooses) one team that will win and one that will lose. Your whole Elo movement, both up and down, is based on that prediction. Whether the Matchmaker is trying to keep you at a 1:1 w/l ratio or not is irrelevant. The Matchmaker is ONLY programmed for 3/3/3/3 and to try to keep both team's "average" Elo score as close to even as possible....and it's given some HUGE margin from which to call them "equal." I think it's like 1700 or 1800 at this point.

Think about that for a minute. It's simple math that will show you how broken that is. Team A has an "average" Elo of 1500. The team's "average" Elo score is ( 12 x 1500 = 18000. 18000/12 = 1500. ) 1500. Team B also has an "average" Elo of 1500. It is dertermined thusly: 2 at 700, 2 at 800, 8 at 1500, 2 at 2200 and 2 at 2300. 1400+1600+12000+4200+4400= 18000 18000/12= 1500. With that margin of 1700, some of those numbers could change drastically. You could end up with one guy with a 2800 playing on a team with nothing but sub 1500s.

This problem is multiplied by the fact that once a player finishes their first 25 matches, they are given....I can't stress this enough....GIVEN an Elo of something like 1700 or 1800....it's in the middle somwhere. The ONLY time you see your number move is if your team ( or, as I like to think of them, mob of random boneheads that can't seem to be able to form so much as an elementary school hockey team) does he opposite of what it predicted when it put the team together. If you were predicted to win but lost, it goes down. If you were predicted to lose and got lucky because the other team had more disconnects or desyncs, it goes up. The maximum movement is 50 points determined by some overcomplicated and incomprehensable rules or consulting a "magic 8 ball" or something. This means if you see someone with an Elo score that is LESS than what they were GIVEN to start with, they must either be really, really unlucky or really, really bad.

Whatever, it is what it is. Until they figure out a better way of keeping us separated into groups of our "peers" skillwise, it's never going to get better. There is no learning experience here other than "the school of hard knocks." The one tutorial is amusing but that's about it. It doesn't teach anyone anything and isn't mandatory....just think, if they made it mandatory to take that one stupid tutorial before entering your first match, you'd never hear "how to move forward" again.

So, yeah. Walk in front of me, get burned. Sorry it hurt your feelings. It hurt my feelings when either you or one of your peers shot me in the back trying to get out of spawn because he felt the overwhelming urge to "test fire his weapons to see how much heat they give me." Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.

[Jon Gotham]

Kavoh, on 01 October 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

*snip*

Some very valid points however, you sneering at light pilots isn't really appropriate ( I get you were provoked however).
They do have to think and factor in ALL of what you have to, but they have to do it MUCH faster. They make a mistake=match over. Assault makes a mistake, you might get badly damaged assuming bad luck.
I've played all types of mech and lights are by far and away the most demanding class to play. Sometimes they have to cross your fire, if I do that I accept you might hit me.
However, please do consider the fact that some of your team mates are so much faster and can't sometimes evade you. What you get five seconds to think about they might have one.